(02-08-2014 11:01 AM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  I didn't really know where to put this topic...

Sooooo, losing Atkinson may end up hurting more than I thought it would if this ends up holding true. I really REALLY hope its just speculation, but the original post and the very first comment don't make me feel very good.

http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Board/39...#a25751431

That would make the fifth 4-star player that ends up doing nothing/very little here. Patrick Coyne, Dyjuan Lewis, and Jameel Poteat have all left the program, and Chris Williams ended his career as a nickleback. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing any of these kids, and it still isn't even set in stone that Johnson would be leaving, but man that is just really bad luck. Haha maybe its a good thing Kevin Mouhon got downgraded to a 3-star! (although Coyne got downgraded toward the end too.... Crap)

Maybe it isn't luck. There really could be something to the idea that the percentage of four stars who flame out is higher than three stars or two stars. People always say having more four star recruits is better but look at teams like Pitt, South Florida, and Rutgers who consistently out recruited us in in Big East. Those teams often lacked discipline. Our teams always seemed mentally tougher, with a bunch of kids who had a chip on their shoulders.

In recruiting, it's always a bit of a guessing game. Overall, four star recruits probably have a higher ceiling than the overall composition of two and three star recruits. But four star recruits are an interesting category, because unlike five star recruits they may be slightly less of a sure thing and yet still have the prima donna attitude that comes with being highly recruited. At a a school like Alabama or Florida State, you are so stacked with five and four star recruits that it becomes a little different, the flame out rate isn't as noticeable. Plus, when you go to a school like Alabama you're just one of many who had 30+ offers. But at every other BCS school if you come in having turned down Florida State or Alabama, you're going to feel entitled over the two star recruit who turned down MAC offers.

(02-08-2014 05:20 PM)chicago bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 11:01 AM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  I didn't really know where to put this topic...

Sooooo, losing Atkinson may end up hurting more than I thought it would if this ends up holding true. I really REALLY hope its just speculation, but the original post and the very first comment don't make me feel very good.

http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Board/39...#a25751431

That would make the fifth 4-star player that ends up doing nothing/very little here. Patrick Coyne, Dyjuan Lewis, and Jameel Poteat have all left the program, and Chris Williams ended his career as a nickleback. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing any of these kids, and it still isn't even set in stone that Johnson would be leaving, but man that is just really bad luck. Haha maybe its a good thing Kevin Mouhon got downgraded to a 3-star! (although Coyne got downgraded toward the end too.... Crap)

Maybe it isn't luck. There really could be something to the idea that the percentage of four stars who flame out is higher than three stars or two stars. People always say having more four star recruits is better but look at teams like Pitt, South Florida, and Rutgers who consistently out recruited us in in Big East. Those teams often lacked discipline. Our teams always seemed mentally tougher, with a bunch of kids who had a chip on their shoulders.

In recruiting, it's always a bit of a guessing game. Overall, four star recruits probably have a higher ceiling than the overall composition of two and three star recruits. But four star recruits are an interesting category, because unlike five star recruits they may be slightly less of a sure thing and yet still have the prima donna attitude that comes with being highly recruited. At a a school like Alabama or Florida State, you are so stacked with five and four star recruits that it becomes a little different, the flame out rate isn't as noticeable. Plus, when you go to a school like Alabama you're just one of many who had 30+ offers. But at every other BCS school if you come in having turned down Florida State or Alabama, you're going to feel entitled over the two star recruit who turned down MAC offers.

This sounds reasonable. You only touched a couple of teams that out recruit us via 4 star athletes. North Carolina State could be added to the list along with Purdue, and many others.

(02-08-2014 04:55 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 12:46 PM)dbernie41 Wrote:  Also hearing things about some "non voluntary" defections as well... hmmmm.

Do tell. What are you hearing? Put a disclaimer on it that is just rumors.

Hearing rumors too.............2-3 players "asked to leave" the program....

Attitude or skill?

(02-08-2014 06:27 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Attitude or skill?

Not skill based.......again, the rumors I've heard are just that....sources are 2nd hand, but I'm still hearing them from a couple of people....

(02-08-2014 06:17 PM)mbl95 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 04:55 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 12:46 PM)dbernie41 Wrote:  Also hearing things about some "non voluntary" defections as well... hmmmm.

Do tell. What are you hearing? Put a disclaimer on it that is just rumors.

Hearing rumors too.............2-3 players "asked to leave" the program....

Looks like Johnson and Coney are 2.

(02-08-2014 10:46 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 06:17 PM)mbl95 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 04:55 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 12:46 PM)dbernie41 Wrote:  Also hearing things about some "non voluntary" defections as well... hmmmm.

Do tell. What are you hearing? Put a disclaimer on it that is just rumors.

Hearing rumors too.............2-3 players "asked to leave" the program....

Looks like Johnson and Coney are 2.

Speculation or actual insight?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

(02-08-2014 11:14 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 10:46 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 06:17 PM)mbl95 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 04:55 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 12:46 PM)dbernie41 Wrote:  Also hearing things about some "non voluntary" defections as well... hmmmm.

Do tell. What are you hearing? Put a disclaimer on it that is just rumors.

Hearing rumors too.............2-3 players "asked to leave" the program....

Looks like Johnson and Coney are 2.

Speculation or actual insight?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Both are speculation, but if you see what Coney has been saying on his Twitter page you'll get the idea.

(02-08-2014 11:43 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 11:14 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 10:46 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 06:17 PM)mbl95 Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 04:55 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Do tell. What are you hearing? Put a disclaimer on it that is just rumors.

Hearing rumors too.............2-3 players "asked to leave" the program....

Looks like Johnson and Coney are 2.

Speculation or actual insight?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Both are speculation, but if you see what Coney has been saying on his Twitter page you'll get the idea.

He's been making overtures all season.

(02-09-2014 12:00 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 11:43 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 11:14 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 10:46 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 06:17 PM)mbl95 Wrote:  Hearing rumors too.............2-3 players "asked to leave" the program....

Looks like Johnson and Coney are 2.

Speculation or actual insight?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Both are speculation, but if you see what Coney has been saying on his Twitter page you'll get the idea.

He's been making overtures all season.

From his twitter it seems like hes going through some tough things but I wouldnt neccesarily say that a transfer is imminent.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

He gawn.

Man... I was always a really big Coney fan. Hopefully he is getting his head on straight and things work out for him in the end. Don't know what the word is with Johnson. Would be a big loss.

Can't say as I'm surprised.

When the Coach goes to the "emergency" Wildcat formation in the Bowl game instead of putting in the Backup QB who's sitting there in pads, you know that you do not have a future with the program. The only thing I am surprised at is that it took this long....I was expecting Coney not to return to campus when classes resumed. (I was thinking that maybe he'd be enrolled elsewhere.)

The question I have (and I asked Tim Adams this elsewhere) is whether this is unusual attrition or just the usual stuff that goes on following a coaching change. It feels to me like TT has had a far greater attrition rate with BJ's players and recruits than either BJ had (with BK's players) or BK or MD. It feels to me (and I could be wrong) like Tuberville has basically "cleaned house" starting with the already decimated 2013 recruiting class and then with a lot of hold-overs from the Butch Jones tenure. And why that's troubling is that under Jones, we saw some of our most heralded recruits come into the program...many of whom feel like they're gone now.

(02-09-2014 01:29 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Can't say as I'm surprised.

When the Coach goes to the "emergency" Wildcat formation in the Bowl game instead of putting in the Backup QB who's sitting there in pads, you know that you do not have a future with the program. The only thing I am surprised at is that it took this long....I was expecting Coney not to return to campus when classes resumed. (I was thinking that maybe he'd be enrolled elsewhere.)

The question I have (and I asked Tim Adams this elsewhere) is whether this is unusual attrition or just the usual stuff that goes on following a coaching change. It feels to me like TT has had a far greater attrition rate with BJ's players and recruits than either BJ had (with BK's players) or BK or MD. It feels to me (and I could be wrong) like Tuberville has basically "cleaned house" starting with the already decimated 2013 recruiting class and then with a lot of hold-overs from the Butch Jones tenure. And why that's troubling is that under Jones, we saw some of our most heralded recruits come into the program...many of whom feel like they're gone now.

Each coach has their own system. But Travis Johnson was a TT recruit. I will trust in TT but this is a bit unsettling.

Is Coney really gone or is this speculation? And was there anyone else who left or was asked to leave?

(02-10-2014 08:47 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Is Coney really gone or is this speculation? And was there anyone else who left or was asked to leave?

So far seems like speculation and trying to read a bunch of stuff into the cryptic tweets of a 21 year old. Just have to wait and see.

Any chance Coney could play another position? Dude has the body of a linebacker. Definitely wish we could have seen more of him in the blowout games, the sample size seems way too small to judge either way.

Personally I think TT knew Kiel was going to be his guy as soon as he signed and that's why he never gave Coney a real shot.

The Miami Hearld had a nice story on the Bearcats signing class and there are some interesting quotes from TT about QB Jarred Evans.

Quote:Bearcats sign potential starting QB Jarred Evans

CINCINNATI -- The Bearcats signed a junior college quarterback who will compete for the starting job next season.

Jarred Evans of Santa Barbara Community College has enrolled at Cincinnati and will be a front-runner for the job, along with sophomore Gunner Kiel, who sat out last season after transferring from Notre Dame. Evans was one of the most notable members of coach Tommy Tuberville's recruiting class on Wednesday.

The 6-foot-2, 190-pound Evans reminds Tuberville of dual-threat quarterback Munchie Legaux, who tore ligaments in his left knee last season.
"Jarred Evans is a kid that I've had my eye on for a year," Tuberville said. "He reminds me a lot of Munchie. Jarred is probably a more proficient passer because that's what he's done more, throw the ball. But he can really run, he's got a lot of speed."

Kiel's experience running the offense in practice last season makes him the leading candidate to replace Brendon Kay, who has graduated.
Cincinnati's highest-rated recruit is linebacker Kevin Mouhon, who is the brother of Bearcats defensive lineman Silverberry Mouhon. Kevin Mouhon originally committed to Tennessee, but changed his mind and will play with his brother.

Kevin Mouhon attended a football camp at Cincinnati last year and made a visit.
"Silverberry was probably our better recruiter," Tuberville said. "Kevin came to games, came for an official visit. I think family won out in this situation."
---
CINCINNATI
National rankings (Rivals 58; Scout 61).
Best in class: Kevin Mouhon, Norcross, Ga. The 6-foot-2, 225-pound linebacker originally committed to Tennessee and former Bearcats coach Butch Jones. He changed his mind in part because of his brother, Cincinnati defensive lineman Silverberry Mouhon, who is entering his junior season.
Best of the rest: QB Jarred Evans, 6-2, 190. The transfer from Santa Barbara Community College has already enrolled and will be eligible for spring football, where he'll push sophomore Gunner Kiel for the starting job. LB Marcus Tappan from Glendale College also has enrolled and could get early playing time. CB J.J. Pinckney from Sylvania Southview in Ohio provides size (6-3, 186) at one of the Bearcats' thinnest positions.
Late addition: Davon Witherspoon, a safety from McArthur High School in Miami, was the last recruit signed on Wednesday. The 6-foot-3, 200-pound defensive back will add to the depth in the secondary.
One that got away: Hunter Atkinson, TE. Atkinson, a 6-foot-5, 250-pounder, waited until Tuesday to choose Georgia over Cincinnati. "We knew we had a battle with Georgia and we lost last night," Tuberville said.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/02/05/39...rylink=cpy

(02-08-2014 05:20 PM)chicago bearcat Wrote:  

(02-08-2014 11:01 AM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  I didn't really know where to put this topic...

Sooooo, losing Atkinson may end up hurting more than I thought it would if this ends up holding true. I really REALLY hope its just speculation, but the original post and the very first comment don't make me feel very good.

http://cincinnati.247sports.com/Board/39...#a25751431

That would make the fifth 4-star player that ends up doing nothing/very little here. Patrick Coyne, Dyjuan Lewis, and Jameel Poteat have all left the program, and Chris Williams ended his career as a nickleback. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing any of these kids, and it still isn't even set in stone that Johnson would be leaving, but man that is just really bad luck. Haha maybe its a good thing Kevin Mouhon got downgraded to a 3-star! (although Coyne got downgraded toward the end too.... Crap)

Maybe it isn't luck. There really could be something to the idea that the percentage of four stars who flame out is higher than three stars or two stars. People always say having more four star recruits is better but look at teams like Pitt, South Florida, and Rutgers who consistently out recruited us in in Big East. Those teams often lacked discipline. Our teams always seemed mentally tougher, with a bunch of kids who had a chip on their shoulders.

In recruiting, it's always a bit of a guessing game. Overall, four star recruits probably have a higher ceiling than the overall composition of two and three star recruits. But four star recruits are an interesting category, because unlike five star recruits they may be slightly less of a sure thing and yet still have the prima donna attitude that comes with being highly recruited. At a a school like Alabama or Florida State, you are so stacked with five and four star recruits that it becomes a little different, the flame out rate isn't as noticeable. Plus, when you go to a school like Alabama you're just one of many who had 30+ offers. But at every other BCS school if you come in having turned down Florida State or Alabama, you're going to feel entitled over the two star recruit who turned down MAC offers.

It's also possible that the 4stars that we get are mostly passed over by other, bigger schools for a reason. Whether they don't see the work ethic, or they think they are overrated for some reason. Meanwhile, if we look at that next level of player, we're looking at all the players not going to the top 50 schools and basically hand-picking the best players who have the best makeup and will be the best fit here. It isn't surprising that the 2nd type of player could work out at a higher rate. We're basically handpicking the best of rest on all those 2-3 star kids.

(02-10-2014 09:48 AM)Crewdogz Wrote:  The Miami Hearld had a nice story on the Bearcats signing class and there are some interesting quotes from TT about QB Jarred Evans.

Quote:Bearcats sign potential starting QB Jarred Evans

CINCINNATI -- The Bearcats signed a junior college quarterback who will compete for the starting job next season.

Jarred Evans of Santa Barbara Community College has enrolled at Cincinnati and will be a front-runner for the job, along with sophomore Gunner Kiel, who sat out last season after transferring from Notre Dame. Evans was one of the most notable members of coach Tommy Tuberville's recruiting class on Wednesday.

The 6-foot-2, 190-pound Evans reminds Tuberville of dual-threat quarterback Munchie Legaux, who tore ligaments in his left knee last season.
"Jarred Evans is a kid that I've had my eye on for a year," Tuberville said. "He reminds me a lot of Munchie. Jarred is probably a more proficient passer because that's what he's done more, throw the ball. But he can really run, he's got a lot of speed."

Kiel's experience running the offense in practice last season makes him the leading candidate to replace Brendon Kay, who has graduated.
Cincinnati's highest-rated recruit is linebacker Kevin Mouhon, who is the brother of Bearcats defensive lineman Silverberry Mouhon. Kevin Mouhon originally committed to Tennessee, but changed his mind and will play with his brother.

Kevin Mouhon attended a football camp at Cincinnati last year and made a visit.
"Silverberry was probably our better recruiter," Tuberville said. "Kevin came to games, came for an official visit. I think family won out in this situation."
---
CINCINNATI
National rankings (Rivals 58; Scout 61).
Best in class: Kevin Mouhon, Norcross, Ga. The 6-foot-2, 225-pound linebacker originally committed to Tennessee and former Bearcats coach Butch Jones. He changed his mind in part because of his brother, Cincinnati defensive lineman Silverberry Mouhon, who is entering his junior season.
Best of the rest: QB Jarred Evans, 6-2, 190. The transfer from Santa Barbara Community College has already enrolled and will be eligible for spring football, where he'll push sophomore Gunner Kiel for the starting job. LB Marcus Tappan from Glendale College also has enrolled and could get early playing time. CB J.J. Pinckney from Sylvania Southview in Ohio provides size (6-3, 186) at one of the Bearcats' thinnest positions.
Late addition: Davon Witherspoon, a safety from McArthur High School in Miami, was the last recruit signed on Wednesday. The 6-foot-3, 200-pound defensive back will add to the depth in the secondary.
One that got away: Hunter Atkinson, TE. Atkinson, a 6-foot-5, 250-pounder, waited until Tuesday to choose Georgia over Cincinnati. "We knew we had a battle with Georgia and we lost last night," Tuberville said.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/02/05/39...rylink=cpy

I could see Evans being in the mix. His highlight film they showed at the signing day dinner looked good. And with him enrolling early he'll get a chance to learn the offense and go through spring practice. It's just a matter of whether we could tailor or offense to fit his particular skillset.