In the Big East, Everyone's Looking Ahead

By PETE THAMEL

Published: October 28, 2004


Next year at this time, when the Big East meets for its annual basketball media day, there will be a few added heavyweights at the Theater at Madison Square Garden.

Rick Pitino of Louisville, Bob Huggins of Cincinnati and Tom Crean of Marquette will be among the new faces that will help make the Big East a 16-team power.

"Next year, we will be the best league," Syracuse Coach Jim Boeheim said yesterday. "I've never said that before. But it's obvious given the teams that we have, we'll be the best league in the country."

Then again, the potential of having the country's best basketball league does not assure the Big East's stability. With football driving revenue and conference realignment, the Big East is lagging.

"As we sit here today, we're better suited to be successful in basketball," Commissioner Mike Tranghese said. "Clearly there is a sense of importance and a sense of urgency on the football side. If you want to be a major player as a conference in college athletics, you've got to play football at a high level."

The defection of Miami and Virginia Tech to the Atlantic Coast Conference this season, and to a lesser extent Boston College next season, has deflated the Big East's football status. The league will still have a Bowl Championship Series bid for the next four seasons, but its future beyond that could depend on retaining the bid.

The league is renegotiating its television contracts to adjust to the changes in teams. Tranghese said that three years, including this season, remain on the basketball contract and four on the football agreement. Negotiating on the new football contract will probably start in a year and a half or two years.

"Football drives virtually every piece of expansion and every major decision," Tranghese said. "It can be overwhelming at times."

The three teams leaving for the A.C.C., along with Temple's departure in football, allowed the Big East to attract Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida, which play Division I-A football, and Marquette and DePaul, which do not.

That leaves the league with 8 of 16 colleges playing Big East football; Notre Dame still operates as a football independent. The success of the eight football programs may ultimately determine the league's fate.

"At one point, it looked pretty dark for the non-football schools," Providence Coach Tim Welsh said. "Like we were going to become the old ECAC again. Now, so far so good. But ask me in three years. Obviously we're all pulling for the football teams to do well so things don't fall apart."

No one knows more about the importance of football at a university than Notre Dame's basketball coach, Mike Brey.

He said questions still lingered about the future of the conference.

"The reality of it is, where are we five, six years from now?" Brey said. "Down the road, is there going to be another split? That's been out there. Even before we got married, that's been out there."

Brey said that so many people were curious about how the league would play out on the field and on the court that there had not been much focus on the long term.

"I think it has stabilized a little bit," he said. "But where are you going to be in 2010, 2011? I think that's probably in the back of people's minds."

Bradshaw also said recently that he expected the Big East to break up again with the basketball schools and non-basketball schools parting ways.

That's from a NJ newspaper article ( <a href='http://www.nj.com/sports/gloucester/index.ssf?/base/sports-3/1098346571173020.xml' target='_blank'>http://www.nj.com/sports/gloucester/index....46571173020.xml</a> ). Bradshaw is Temple's AD.

There seems to be quite a few people with far greater access to insider info than us internet junkies that seem to think a split is gonna happen as well.

Makes you wonder. :rolleyes:

The artice on this post did not say that. You are putting words in his mouth. He said the future is uncertian, which it is.

Are you talking about the article in my post or the original post?

Regardless, people with much more information than you seem to think a split is at least a possibility, which is more than you'll admit TopCoog...

TopCoog....the quote is in the article posted by NFLsucks...I got the impression from the article that Temple is hoping to be the 9th school in the eastern all sports conference....not a bad idea if they football program ever gets going...but I don't see that happening....not with the schedule the Owls seem to be playin in football



Jackson

It is obvious to everyone in the country, except a few fans of CUSA schools that want to keep their collective heads in the sand (see note below), that a Big East split will happen in the next few years. What that will mean as far as who goes where, thats anyones guess. The determining factor will be how many teams the break away schools from the Big East will add. If the new league adds 1 school and is content to play with 9 members, CUSA will survive. If the new league expands to 12, CUSA will be decimated. The loss of any combination of Memphis, Marshall, ECU, USM or UCF would seriously cripple the Eastern Division of CUSA. How serious is anyones guess. Of course all of this is based on todays college football landscape and things change almost daily. This is going to be fun to watch.
CJ
Note from above:
Louisville, Cincinnati, and South Florida fans have been told by fans of the schools remaining in CUSA that certain events would or wouldn't happen. In EVERY case those fans were wrong:
The Big East won't invite any CUSA schools....wrong
The Big East and CUSA will merge...wrong
The Big East will lose it BCS bid...wrong
The Big East will lose the Gator Bowl...wrong
The Big East will not split.......anyone else see a pattern here. Based on the predictions of the fans of CUSA schools left behind, its a safe bet the Big East will split. The only answer is when.

"It is obvious to everyone in the country, except a few fans of CUSA schools that want to keep their collective heads in the sand (see note below), that a Big East split will happen in the next few years.....Of course all of this is based on todays college football landscape and things change almost daily This is going to be fun to watch."


-- I agree with the two quotes from Cardinal Jim...especially about things changing quickly...possbile canidates for being the 9th school include but are not limited too

Memphis
UCF
Marshall
ECU
Temple
Umass
Delware
Fordham
Flordia Atlantic

-- now obviously the ones lower down on the list have work to do to be considered...but as Jim says anything can happen between now and 2009 or 2010

Jackson

I have it on good authority that the Big East is recruiting both Penn State and Notre Dame and will not add a non-bcs team. I know that sounds like a ridiculous long shot but I have complete faith in this source, it is well connected. The Big East, like the Big 10 will be content to hold at 8 football schools for as long as it can until the right programs come along, it will not add a program simply to get to 9 teams.

Wouldn't it make just as much sense to look at some of the MAC schools? When the Big East splits, its going to increase travel costs for everyone involved. MAC schools are located in the East-MidWest footprint.

NIU
Toledo
Buffalo
Ohio

You could offset the loss of DePaul with Northern Illinois who has a spanking new arena. Toledo has good support. Buffalo would have to be considered if they had better support for market reasons. And don't forget Ohio, they are close to WVU plus they have a 13,000 seat basketball arena.

Probably wouldn't take Buffalo because of bad attendance. If you throw Marshall in there instead and broke down the divisions:

MidWest Division
Louisville, Marshall, Northern Ill., Ohio, Toledo, Cinncinatti

Atlantic Division
West Virginia, Rutgers, South Florida, Pittsburgh, UConn, Syracuse


Honestly, it makes about as much sense as adding Memphis, ECU and UCF.

Quote:I know that sounds like a ridiculous long shot but I have complete faith in this source, it is well connected.

Does your source happen to know if the Big East is making any progress towards attaining either of these two schools?

A split of the Big east will kill the league and won't happen.

TopCoog Wrote:A split of the Big east will kill the league and won't happen.

The only league a Big East split will kill is CUSA. Memphis, ECU, USM, UCF and Marshall among others would jump in a heart beat.
CJ

"I have it on good authority that the Big East is recruiting both Penn State and Notre Dame and will not add a non-bcs team. I know that sounds like a ridiculous long shot but I have complete faith in this source, it is well connected. The Big East, like the Big 10 will be content to hold at 8 football schools for as long as it can until the right programs come along, it will not add a program simply to get to 9 teams. "


-- Thats interesting because Tranghese was quoted as saying the we won't add anyone else for football unless they add to the TV contract....the only two schools out their that would have a remote desire to be in the BE and would help the TV contract are ND and PSU

-- From the outside looking in I would think we would have a better shot at PSU.....PSUs three most historic rivals are still in the BE (Pitt, West Virginia and Syracuse).....the geography with the rest of the league would be perfect...and given the # of loses they have had over the yrs in the Big 10...I would think Joe Pa would have to consider it.....however if PSU was to join their would have to be a split....aside from the fact that their is no more room in the 16 team league...PSU HATES the ball onlys for what went on in the 1980s when the Nittany Lions tried to get into the BE

-- As I posted on another thread...I think it is less likely that ND would come in full time.....although I still think a shared football spot could be worked out between the BE football and the Irish, Naval Academy....but unlike PSU....I think for ND to join in any capacity we will need to stay with the bball onlys...ND has much more in common and history with those schools then the ones that play football

-- Anyway....interesting post L-Yes.....please keep us informed if your source has any more info


Jackson

CardinalJim Wrote:

TopCoog Wrote:A split of the Big east will kill the league and won't happen.

The only league a Big East split will kill is CUSA. Memphis, ECU, USM, UCF and Marshall among others would jump in a heart beat.
CJ

I would have to agree with Jim here. The only league that the spite might hurt would be C-USA.

It would not hurt CUSA because the league is seaking stability by morphing southwest. The Big East will stay in the northeast and Florida for some very critical reasons. For one thing they have, for the most part, the region to themselves. It would not be smart to expand all over the US like CUSA did and thus be in competition with the ACC, SEC and Big 10. It has to stay a northeast league or risk becoming the midest of the mid majors with no idenity. Florida is the only exception because it has a big northeastern componet to its population.
As long as the 8/8 deal works it will not change. If you do think of expansion you have to think northeast, even MT said a couple of months ago that they were committed to the region. Anything else is just message board garbage that won't happen.

Jim...you are correct athat those schools would go because of the basketball money but they will not be invited. The only school you mentioned that has any chance of being added in a NBE expansion is UCF and possibly Marshall.

--From the outside looking in I would think we would have a better shot at PSU.....PSUs three most historic rivals are still in the BE (Pitt, West Virginia and Syracuse).....the geography with the rest of the league would be perfect...and given the # of loses they have had over the yrs in the Big 10...I would think Joe Pa would have to consider it.....however if PSU was to join their would have to be a split....aside from the fact that their is no more room in the 16 team league...PSU HATES the ball onlys for what went on in the 1980s when the Nittany Lions tried to get into the BE



The first thing needs to happen is the split. It’s not an option. And during this process (preparing for separation) recruiting PSU and ND. Once the divorce is completed PSU and ND move in.

The question is what kind of incentive we can offer ND and PSU.

- For ND a better competition in basketball and Olympic sports only require minimum of 6 football games.

- For PSU /w ND on board, a guarantee annual football game again ND.

Anyone else have any suggestion?

"The first thing needs to happen is the split. It’s not an option. And during this process (preparing for separation) recruiting PSU and ND. Once the divorce is completed PSU and ND move in.
The question is what kind of incentive we can offer ND and PSU.
For ND a better competition in basketball and Olympic sports only require minimum of 6 football games.
For PSU /w ND on board, a guarantee annual football game again ND"



-- I don't think it is very likely that ND would join the BE football schools in seperating from the bball onlys....the Catholic/historical connection is just too strong....I firmly believe that if we want ND for football then we have to stay with the 16 team league

-- As mentioned above....I think Penn St would have the exact opposite opinion about the 16 team league...the BE could offer the Nittany Lions a chance to renew seires with their old rivals..they could return to the big fish in a small pond situation and be in the BCS most yrs...all road games except USF would be withing driving distance of their fans...travel costs for all their sports would be cut....Also I think PSU leaving the Big 10 would actually help their recruting...during the past decade or so Michigan and Ohio St have recruited PA better the PSU has...it would be a chance for the Nittany Lions to take back control of their recruiting area...PSU just doesn't recruit NJ, NY and eastern PA like they used too

Jackson

Notre Dame and penn state are not going to join the Big east in football for the same reason that Miami and the others left. Being positive is a good thing but just going of the deep end is not. If Notre Dame decides to join the big 10 it would open up a spot for a ninth football team. UMASS and UCF are far and away the most likely choices. Boston, followed by Orlando are two markets the NBE would want. Boston might even be called critical.

" Notre Dame and penn state are not going to join the Big east in football for the same reason that Miami and the others left. Being positive is a good thing but just going of the deep end is not. If Notre Dame decides to join the big 10 it would open up a spot for a ninth football team. UMASS and UCF are far and away the most likely choices. Boston, followed by Orlando are two markets the NBE would want. Boston might even be called critical. "



-- Penn St left because it got tired of waiting for the eastern football schools who were in the BE to leave that conference and form an all sports league....PSU got rejected by BE hoops and couldn't get Syracuse, Pitt and BC on board for an all sports league

-- Miami left to be apart of an allsports league and to be in a more geographic friendly confence...Miami's AD (Pual Dee) said himself that their was more money short term to stay in the BE...and that some in the athletic department of Miami viewed the move as a bit of a gamble

-- If Umass would put the financial commitment into football that UConn did I would have no problem with them coming in...but to say Umass has any part of the Boston market is a stretch...most people around the BE know that BC has a very small piece of the Boston market....unlike BC....Umass is a landgrant school...not a college for the elite and I think would have more support in rural Mass. then in a urban area like Boston

-- If ND were to join the Big 10....the 16 team league would fall apart...the football schools would be scrambling for expansion to try to replace NDs strenght when it comes to the bowl tie ins...the bball onlys would not allow a 9th football school to gain all sports status because then the football schools would have a voting advantage 9-7....

Jackson