Saying UCF would water down USF in recruiting if both are in the BE is inane. We can recruit as good as them. Not only that but Florida is filled with football talent whether they choose to play out of state or in the Big 3, the soon to be 7 I-A programs will be fine. I think the real scenario would actually be like what is bound to happen in the ACC - the two Florida schools controlling football in their conference.

Moloch,
No offense but ECU has put its time in, beaten quality BCS teams and deserves an opportunity to play in a BCS conference. Thats why I see them as a viable target for the Big East.
UCF, on the otherhand, has not competed at the level of CUSA like the Pirates have. Perhaps head to head games the next few years will be an opportunity for the best program to rise to the top.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:Moloch,
No offense but ECU has put its time in, beaten quality BCS teams and deserves an opportunity to play in a BCS conference. Thats why I see them as a viable target for the Big East.
UCF, on the otherhand, has not competed at the level of CUSA like the Pirates have. Perhaps head to head games the next few years will be an opportunity for the best program to rise to the top.
CJ

Since when does it matter who deserves it?

If "putting time in" mattered then Southern Miss would be in a BCS conference instead of South Florida or UConn.

3601 Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:Moloch,
No offense but ECU has put its time in, beaten quality BCS teams and deserves an opportunity to play in a BCS conference. Thats why I see them as a viable target for the Big East.
UCF, on the otherhand, has not competed at the level of CUSA like the Pirates have. Perhaps head to head games the next few years will be an opportunity for the best program to rise to the top.
CJ

Since when does it matter who deserves it?

If "putting time in" mattered then Southern Miss would be in a BCS conference instead of South Florida or UConn.

3601,
Don't buy into the bullsh*t that USM fans spread on the other boards. USM hasn't beaten a BCS team during the regular season with a winning record in over a decade. The Eagles play the big boys but NEVER beat them. Sure USM's motto is "Anyone Anytime Anywhere", just don't expect them to win. When they start beating the Nebraskas etc. Let me know...
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:Moloch,
No offense but ECU has put its time in, beaten quality BCS teams and deserves an opportunity to play in a BCS conference. Thats why I see them as a viable target for the Big East.
UCF, on the otherhand, has not competed at the level of CUSA like the Pirates have. Perhaps head to head games the next few years will be an opportunity for the best program to rise to the top.
CJ

Maybe ECU did put its time in. Heck they've been in existence since before the World Wars! So explain USF? Havent beaten as many BCS opponents as us (USF: Pitt, UCF: Bama). Both are young programs with similar fan support. And as for putting in its time, we got that over them by playing in the lower divisions, making the playoffs, and defeating some of those divisions toughest teams, like Youngstown State. So it must be the market that entices the BE, as well as their recent jumpstart success. If it comes down to media markets, and if things get shifted around again, Id expect to see UCF have an offer from the BE, unless USF feels threatened by their inclusion. Until then well be happy with our CUSA affiliation.

CardinalJim Wrote:Don't buy into the bullsh*t that USM fans spread on the other boards. USM hasn't beaten a BCS team during the regular season with a winning record in over a decade. The Eagles play the big boys but NEVER beat them. Sure USM's motto is "Anyone Anytime Anywhere", just don't expect them to win. When they start beating the Nebraskas etc. Let me know...
CJ

I'll admit that we haven't performed well against BCS opponents, but getting blown out by them usually helps us blow out people in our own conference! The food chain exists everywhere! :D

CardinalJim Wrote:

3601 Wrote:

CardinalJim Wrote:Moloch,
No offense but ECU has put its time in, beaten quality BCS teams and deserves an opportunity to play in a BCS conference. Thats why I see them as a viable target for the Big East.
UCF, on the otherhand, has not competed at the level of CUSA like the Pirates have. Perhaps head to head games the next few years will be an opportunity for the best program to rise to the top.
CJ

Since when does it matter who deserves it?

If "putting time in" mattered then Southern Miss would be in a BCS conference instead of South Florida or UConn.

3601,
Don't buy into the bullsh*t that USM fans spread on the other boards. USM hasn't beaten a BCS team during the regular season with a winning record in over a decade. The Eagles play the big boys but NEVER beat them. Sure USM's motto is "Anyone Anytime Anywhere", just don't expect them to win. When they start beating the Nebraskas etc. Let me know...
CJ

They've still been the best team in C-USA with the most championships. They are surely more deserving than USF or UConn. They would have a few more "BCS victories" if they played Kentucky every year or if Ole Miss or Miss. State weren't scared to play them.

3601,
I can agree that USM has been competitive in football with CUSA but what have they done to raise interest in Non-BCS football by beating the BCS teams they play. I commend the Eagles for what they have done but they seem content on being a big fish in a small pond. That my be fine with them but some have higher aspirations. I know that we do here at UofL and I'm sure you folks in Memphis do as well. That kind of gets us to what you mentioned about USF and UCONN. Both have tremendous upsides. Of course neither has been as successful as USM in conference football but neither has played at this level that long either. USF has it's location in Florida, its market in Tampa and will hopefully bring the Outback Bowl to the Big East along with it. UCONN on the otherhand is a state school with money to spend it also offers championship Mens and Womens basketball.
Those left on the outside looking at expansion see it as the Big East chose a basketball answer to its football problem. Others like myself see it as the Big East took the most well rounded programs available. That's why I see Memphis as the next target. The best football / basketball combination available.
CJ

Lemme take a whiff..... *ahhhh*.. now let me present this "what if" scenario...

ACC

Division A
Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Maryland
NC State
South Carolina
Wake Forest

Division B
Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Rutgers
Virginia
Virginia Tech


SEC

Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georiga
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

Arkansas
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M


BIG EAST

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Memphis
Pittsburgh
South Florida
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia

As these scenarios are "WAY" out there as it is, I dare not show you guys my Big 10(1) "what if" look....

"BIG EAST

Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Memphis
Pittsburgh
South Florida
Syracuse
Temple
West Virginia"

-- I would have no problem with that all sports league....I am one of the few fans that thinks Temple got a bad deal and deserves another chance....and don't forgt they bring the Philly market too


Jackson

Jackson1011 Wrote:I am one of the few fans that thinks Temple got a bad deal and deserves another chance....and don't forgt they bring the Philly market too


Jackson

1. Just because Temple is in Philly doesn't mean that they "bring the Philly market" with them.

2. Rutgers ain't going anywhere.

Mongo...let's rehash your "way out there" conference predictions inthe way the dominos would fall...

The ACC would have started by taking Rutgers (why?) and South Carolina. That would leave both the Big East and the SEC to fill a spot.

Then you're assuming that the SEC could entice the Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M.

Then the BE would add Memphis and Temple to get to 9.

My thoughts/questions?

1. IF (that is a big if) the ACC were to expand to 14, why Rutgers and not Syracuse? The Orangemen were one of the original targets until VA's govenor intervened. Why wouldn't the ACC revisit their original logic?

2. Why would USC leave the SEC? Last I heard, the SEC is still the most proifitable home for the Gamecocks and the SEC has such a stranglehold on the South that I don't really see that changing (especially in an era when the South is one of the fastest growing regions in the country).

3. Let's assume the ACC gets those teams. The SEC has eyed the Texas teams for awhile, but would they leave? That would be a lateral move to a conference that is further away from them.

4. I really doubt the Sooners would leave...they'd probably watch the Texas teams go bye-bye and use the opportunity to reinstate their annual rivalry with Nebraska sice they would have the Big 12 by the nads.

5. The Big 12 would have to respond...they've been eyeing Arkansas...meaning the SEC would have another spot to fill. The Big 12 would also look at Colorado State and maybe BYU. (Rumors in Texas are that BYU was originally slated when the Big 8 went from 8 to 12, but Ann Richards, the govenor of Texas at the time wouldn't allow the state schools to go w/o Baylor)

6. Would the BE invite Temple back without their basketball program? If Cheney's no longer running the show, they'd probably come over for all sports.

7. If you consider the above points...where would Memphis fall? SEC or Big East? If the goal is 14 teams, the SEC could, theoretically, need more teams if they were to lose Arkansas and USC and only add Texas and A&M...that would leave them at 12. WVU, Memphis, Louisville, UCF, any possibly ECU could lead the pack for SEC membership.

Wow, I could easily go on for awhile with all the "what ifs"...let's just agree that all this BS is a mess and wait nervously for the time when more shakeups occur.

CardinalJim Wrote:3601,
I can agree that USM has been competitive in football with CUSA but what have they done to raise interest in Non-BCS football by beating the BCS teams they play. I commend the Eagles for what they have done but they seem content on being a big fish in a small pond. That my be fine with them but some have higher aspirations. I know that we do here at UofL and I'm sure you folks in Memphis do as well.
CJ

I have a problem with some aspects of your statement. I think our athletics do have higher aspirations, but you're not seeing them.

1. Obviously, going after Eustachy is something that be credited to our school. If we did not have higher aspirations, we would have hired some assistant from an ACC school.

It's not just having a big name coach that makes it good. If Eustachy takes us to the NCAA tournament on a regular basis, then we can beef up our athletic budget. I agree with some non-USM people in saying that we rely too much on our football. In effect, we pay for our football and basketball programs on just the football's paychecks. If we have two sources of money coming in, then there's no way that you can't see improvement.

2. Even though we lose alot to BCS teams, it helps our recruiting. If we were not playing the Nebraskas and Bamas every year, then why would ESPN give a crap about us? Do you think that ESPN would be televising the Houston game this year if we didn't have nationally televised games with Nebraska and Cal on our schedule? I'm guessing a no on this one.

The point is, these players want to be on T.V. If Southern Miss is on T.V., then recruits will give them a second thought before going to another school.

I'm not going to argue about not being in a BCS league, but please don't label us as a school that is content with what it is.

"1. Just because Temple is in Philly doesn't mean that they "bring the Philly market" with them.

2. Rutgers ain't going anywhere."



-- IF there is one thing we have learned from the ACC raid is that it doesn't matter how popular the team is in the city....the important thing is to be able to show you games on TV in that city....Boston doesn't care at all for BC....don't underestimate the Philly market which we will lose if we split from the bball onlys and Nova

-- I missed Rutgers not being included in the orginal prediciton....what I ment to say was I wouldn't mind an all sports league of the BE football members and Memphis + Temple


Jackson

Eaglewing,
The hiring of Coach E certainly shows you folks are determined to return to the winning ways of Coach Turk. Many USM fans seem to discount basketball as nothing more than something to do between football season and spring practice. This was the typical feeling in the southern schools until 15 to 20 years ago. With big money in basketball thoise feelings have started to change. I submit that USM has started building it's basketball program in hopes of attracting an invite from the Big East in the next few years.
I think it will be interesting to watch as schools like Memphis, USM and ECU compete for a spot in the Big East. I look forward to watching the games.
CJ

CardinalJim Wrote:Eaglewing,
The hiring of Coach E certainly shows you folks are determined to return to the winning ways of Coach Turk. Many USM fans seem to discount basketball as nothing more than something to do between football season and spring practice. This was the typical feeling in the southern schools until 15 to 20 years ago. With big money in basketball thoise feelings have started to change. I submit that USM has started building it's basketball program in hopes of attracting an invite from the Big East in the next few years.
I think it will be interesting to watch as schools like Memphis, USM and ECU compete for a spot in the Big East. I look forward to watching the games.
CJ

Agreed. Good luck in the Big East. I like Louisville better than the schools that are already there. :)

Quote: Mongo...let's rehash your "way out there" conference predictions inthe way the dominos would fall...

I'll play along, my friend... after all, this is just "what if" stuff, anyways..

Quote:The ACC would have started by taking Rutgers (why?) and South Carolina. That would leave both the Big East and the SEC to fill a spot.

Why Rutgers...? IMHO...
1. State university with some similarities, non-athletic, with North Carolina. Also, Duke has a huge following in NJ, as we all know.
2. The fact that the ACC asked East Rutherford, NJ to submit a proposal request for its upcoming title game has me wondering if Swofford is up to something. I don't think the ACC is done expanding...

Quote:Then you're assuming that the SEC could entice the Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M.

If you were a leading SEC official and could make a huge splash, weaken one conference (Big XII) while bypassing or at least catching up to another (ACC), wouldn't you entice those three schools? I sure would.

Quote:Then the BE would add Memphis and Temple to get to 9.

Memphis, definitely. I'm all over that concept. Temple, I just tossed out there because I don't see another outfit that brings anything.

Quote:My thoughts/questions?

1. IF (that is a big if) the ACC were to expand to 14, why Rutgers and not Syracuse? The Orangemen were one of the original targets until VA's govenor intervened. Why wouldn't the ACC revisit their original logic?

Rutgers = "Northern NJ and New York city", plus Syracuse kinda burned its bridge with the ACC.

Quote:2. Why would USC leave the SEC? Last I heard, the SEC is still the most proifitable home for the Gamecocks and the SEC has such a stranglehold on the South that I don't really see that changing (especially in an era when the South is one of the fastest growing regions in the country).

This is purely spectulative, but let me try...
It all depends on who's making more money in 5 years. Now that the ACC has virtually caught up to the SEC (w/o Miami and VT), and has bypassed them in terms of "per school" distribution, one has to wonder if any eastern SEC school would look at the ACC and wonder, "hmmm..". We may not ever hear about it, but I'd bet good money it'll happen behind the seasons...

Quote:3. Let's assume the ACC gets those teams. The SEC has eyed the Texas teams for awhile, but would they leave? That would be a lateral move to a conference that is further away from them.

If the Big XII continues to lose money. The Orlando Sentinel had a report outlining how much revenue each conference distributed and how much each member received. The first thing that struck me was the fact the Big XII was falling behind the SEC, ACC and Big Ten, and if this trend continues, anything is possible.

Quote:4. I really doubt the Sooners would leave...they'd probably watch the Texas teams go bye-bye and use the opportunity to reinstate their annual rivalry with Nebraska sice they would have the Big 12 by the nads.

Depends on who's making more dollars.

One of the things I pay attention to is who's playing who... a few years ago here in ACC land, we started seeing curious matchups with Syracuse, and Boston College, and wondered... "hmmmm". Well, guess who the ACC originially targeted.

The recent Oklahoma-Alabama series, as well as the Arkansas-Texas series is giving me that "Hmmm" feeling, as in, "Let's test the market to see how well these games play out. If they do well, we may be onto something."

Quote:5. The Big 12 would have to respond...they've been eyeing Arkansas...meaning the SEC would have another spot to fill. The Big 12 would also look at Colorado State and maybe BYU. (Rumors in Texas are that BYU was originally slated when the Big 8 went from 8 to 12, but Ann Richards, the govenor of Texas at the time wouldn't allow the state schools to go w/o Baylor)

As you doubt OU would leave, I doubt Arkansas would leave its lucrative perch among the SEC. They make more $$$ in the SEC than they would in the Big XII.

The worse thing the Big XII did was align its divisions North-South, against the Big Ten and the SEC, because what's happening now is that, indirectly, the Big XII North competes against the Big Ten, and the same goes for the Big XII South and the SEC. And, unfortunately for the Big XII, they're losing those battles, as the revenue dollars indicate.

Quote:6. Would the BE invite Temple back without their basketball program? If Cheney's no longer running the show, they'd probably come over for all sports.

Your guess is as good as mine....

Quote:7. If you consider the above points...where would Memphis fall? SEC or Big East? If the goal is 14 teams, the SEC could, theoretically, need more teams if they were to lose Arkansas and USC and only add Texas and A&M...that would leave them at 12. WVU, Memphis, Louisville, UCF, any possibly ECU could lead the pack for SEC membership.

Memphis is a natural fit with the new Big East.

Note: Not saying this to dig at you, but....
The SEC already has a presence in Memphis, so adding Memphis for the sake of adding them makes no sense. However, moving into Texas is damn near logical for the SEC.

TV execs would fall all over themselves for the following matchups:
- Texas v. Florida
- Auburn v. Texas A&M
- Oklahoma v. Georgia

----

- Louisville may sniff the SEC in my grandchildrens' lifetime.
- West Virginia is "interesting", but personally, I think it's a longshot.
- Central Fredo and East Carolina.. nope.

Quote:Wow, I could easily go on for awhile with all the "what ifs"...let's just agree that all this BS is a mess and wait nervously for the time when more shakeups occur.

You're on your own there... :D

Can you imagine the scenarios if the Golden Domers join the ACC? :eek:

MongoSlade Wrote:

Quote: Mongo...let's rehash your "way out there" conference predictions inthe way the dominos would fall...

I'll play along, my friend... after all, this is just "what if" stuff, anyways..

Quote:The ACC would have started by taking Rutgers (why?) and South Carolina. That would leave both the Big East and the SEC to fill a spot.

Why Rutgers...? IMHO...
1. State university with some similarities, non-athletic, with North Carolina. Also, Duke has a huge following in NJ, as we all know.
2. The fact that the ACC asked East Rutherford, NJ to submit a proposal request for its upcoming title game has me wondering if Swofford is up to something. I don't think the ACC is done expanding...

Quote:Then you're assuming that the SEC could entice the Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas A&M.

If you were a leading SEC official and could make a huge splash, weaken one conference (Big XII) while bypassing or at least catching up to another (ACC), wouldn't you entice those three schools? I sure would.

Quote:Then the BE would add Memphis and Temple to get to 9.

Memphis, definitely. I'm all over that concept. Temple, I just tossed out there because I don't see another outfit that brings anything.

Quote:My thoughts/questions?

1. IF (that is a big if) the ACC were to expand to 14, why Rutgers and not Syracuse? The Orangemen were one of the original targets until VA's govenor intervened. Why wouldn't the ACC revisit their original logic?

Rutgers = "Northern NJ and New York city", plus Syracuse kinda burned its bridge with the ACC.

Quote:2. Why would USC leave the SEC? Last I heard, the SEC is still the most proifitable home for the Gamecocks and the SEC has such a stranglehold on the South that I don't really see that changing (especially in an era when the South is one of the fastest growing regions in the country).

This is purely spectulative, but let me try...
It all depends on who's making more money in 5 years. Now that the ACC has virtually caught up to the SEC (w/o Miami and VT), and has bypassed them in terms of "per school" distribution, one has to wonder if any eastern SEC school would look at the ACC and wonder, "hmmm..". We may not ever hear about it, but I'd bet good money it'll happen behind the seasons...

Quote:3. Let's assume the ACC gets those teams. The SEC has eyed the Texas teams for awhile, but would they leave? That would be a lateral move to a conference that is further away from them.

If the Big XII continues to lose money. The Orlando Sentinel had a report outlining how much revenue each conference distributed and how much each member received. The first thing that struck me was the fact the Big XII was falling behind the SEC, ACC and Big Ten, and if this trend continues, anything is possible.

Quote:4. I really doubt the Sooners would leave...they'd probably watch the Texas teams go bye-bye and use the opportunity to reinstate their annual rivalry with Nebraska sice they would have the Big 12 by the nads.

Depends on who's making more dollars.

One of the things I pay attention to is who's playing who... a few years ago here in ACC land, we started seeing curious matchups with Syracuse, and Boston College, and wondered... "hmmmm". Well, guess who the ACC originially targeted.

The recent Oklahoma-Alabama series, as well as the Arkansas-Texas series is giving me that "Hmmm" feeling, as in, "Let's test the market to see how well these games play out. If they do well, we may be onto something."

Quote:5. The Big 12 would have to respond...they've been eyeing Arkansas...meaning the SEC would have another spot to fill. The Big 12 would also look at Colorado State and maybe BYU. (Rumors in Texas are that BYU was originally slated when the Big 8 went from 8 to 12, but Ann Richards, the govenor of Texas at the time wouldn't allow the state schools to go w/o Baylor)

As you doubt OU would leave, I doubt Arkansas would leave its lucrative perch among the SEC. They make more $$$ in the SEC than they would in the Big XII.

The worse thing the Big XII did was align its divisions North-South, against the Big Ten and the SEC, because what's happening now is that, indirectly, the Big XII North competes against the Big Ten, and the same goes for the Big XII South and the SEC. And, unfortunately for the Big XII, they're losing those battles, as the revenue dollars indicate.

Quote:6. Would the BE invite Temple back without their basketball program? If Cheney's no longer running the show, they'd probably come over for all sports.

Your guess is as good as mine....

Quote:7. If you consider the above points...where would Memphis fall? SEC or Big East? If the goal is 14 teams, the SEC could, theoretically, need more teams if they were to lose Arkansas and USC and only add Texas and A&M...that would leave them at 12. WVU, Memphis, Louisville, UCF, any possibly ECU could lead the pack for SEC membership.

Memphis is a natural fit with the new Big East.

Note: Not saying this to dig at you, but....
The SEC already has a presence in Memphis, so adding Memphis for the sake of adding them makes no sense. However, moving into Texas is damn near logical for the SEC.

TV execs would fall all over themselves for the following matchups:
- Texas v. Florida
- Auburn v. Texas A&M
- Oklahoma v. Georgia

----

- Louisville may sniff the SEC in my grandchildrens' lifetime.
- West Virginia is "interesting", but personally, I think it's a longshot.
- Central Fredo and East Carolina.. nope.

Quote:Wow, I could easily go on for awhile with all the "what ifs"...let's just agree that all this BS is a mess and wait nervously for the time when more shakeups occur.

You're on your own there... :D

Excellent and well thought out points Mongo. However one thing I've learned is that there is no such thing as a constant in the world of college athletics. There are programs that hover near the top and climbers that move in and out of those lofty positions. I think Louisville will shoot through the ceiling very soon and could surprise you. VT parlayed a few years of football success in the Big East into an ACC invite. Louisville is the total package with the most profitable basketball program in the nation and a top 25 football program on the verge of some great things. In 5 years who knows what will happen. I'm not predicting Louisville will be invited to join the SEC but I am saying that 12 or 13 years ago Virginia Tech was rejected in their effort to gain membership in Conference USA and there is relevance in that.

I did say Louisville could be an SEC possibility in my grandchildrens' lifetime....

They're that next "Virginia Tech" type of program, and all they need to do is to have continued success on the football field. Hoops success is a given. Playing in the Big East gives the Cards a golden opportunity to show the nation they're serious football contenders. Do that for about 20 years, or so, and who knows...