(03-14-2013 10:37 PM)lazydawg58 Wrote:  Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling was based in Raleigh when I was a kid so Mid-Atlantic to me means NC. :)

I was going to say that I thought it included NC but I didn't want to open a new can of worms from the Northeasterners.

(03-14-2013 10:39 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 10:37 PM)lazydawg58 Wrote:  Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling was based in Raleigh when I was a kid so Mid-Atlantic to me means NC. :)

I was going to say that I thought it included NC but I didn't want to open a new can of worms from the Northeasterners.

I was going to say NC too.

(03-14-2013 10:09 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 10:06 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States



"The Northeastern United States, or simply the Northeast, is a region of the United States as defined by the United States Census Bureau.[1]"

The Census Bureau calls NY a Northeastern sate...can't get more technical than that right?

I have a degree in Geography. NY is both a Northeastern State and a Mid-Atlantic State. They (The naming terms) both cover different State collections but NY is in both.

The U.S. Census Bureau places New York in the Middle Atlantic region.

Sooo many geographical terms....sooo little time...

(03-14-2013 01:04 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  I can understand why Cuse loves the garden and why Pitino does. However, the ACC will get the same media coverage with or without NYC!

I have to disagree with you on this point.
New York city is the financial capital of the US and one of the top 2 in the world. The amount of media in New York city dwarfs Greensboro. Its not even close.
The ACC has to do a better job of generating income for its member schools. Building a cable TV network would be a good start and getting increased media attention would help this generate more income for the member schools.
With all that said, I do not have much faith in the ACC being able to see past tradition and what the North Carolina schools want so its doubtful they would ever move the tournament to New York City. I guess the member schools will just have to get used to making less money than the more business minded conferences (Pac12, B1G, SEC and BigXII).

(03-14-2013 04:17 PM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 12:36 PM)Villecard Wrote:  What about this....

"All five major conference commissioners privately acknowledge that realignment isn't done. And the next logical evolution will inevitably be a poaching of the ACC.

When will this happen? That's the biggest question among athletic directors and TV executives right now. No one knows the answer. But this much is certain -- there's nothing that's happened in the last three years that suggests that realignment will just stop. Will Jim Delany expand the Big Ten this spring with North Carolina and Virginia? Will Mike Slive pull the trigger first and nab N.C. State or Virginia Tech? Will the Big 12 make a power play for Florida State or Clemson? Who makes the first move? Rest assured that even the most deep-rooted ACC schools have contingency plans in case the league gets poached.

At its core, grabbing the Garden would be a long-term asset that would separate the ACC from its rivals. It would strengthen its basketball profile and make it more attractive for the long term. It would ingratiate the ACC in the country's best media market and one of the most fertile recruiting grounds."

Holding the ACC tournament in MSG isn't going to stabilize the conference or put it on equal financial footing with the SEC or Big 10. How do I know this? Because holding its tournament in MSG didn't stop the annihilation of the Big East in its current format. What killed the Big East was the lack of money (bowls, TV revenues, etc) and MSG garden isn't going to fix that problem.

Of course it will not put the ACC on the same financial footing as the SEC or B1G. Would it help get more media attention in connection with an ACC TV Network? Yes. It might help close the gap a bit between the B1G, Pac12, SEC and BigXII by getting more subscribers to the ACC TV Network (assuming they build one). The ACC has to do a number of things that will incrementally increase income. One step would be to build a TV Network, another step would be to market that network by having it in the media capital of the country New York City.

(03-14-2013 10:14 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Think of what is best for the conference first, not fiefdoms. What makes the best sense for the conference's future in terms of the best combination of $, visibility, recruiting, stability, history. What ever that is, that is where it should be. If that truly is Greensboro, so be it. However, other than tradition, no one has presented, on any single message board that I've seen, even one decent real argument about why it would be there over MSG other than some variation of "well, this is what we've done in the past" or "UNC/Duke would never allow it".

^^^THIS^^^

It seems like the majority of posters are simply too biased towards what's best for themselves and their school to really discuss what's best for the conference. People complain that the ACC doesn't make as much money as some of the others but then they don't want to even consider taking steps to fix that problem. THAT is small-time, IMO.

GEOGRAPHICAL CENTER of the ACC is approximately Charlotte, NC
CENTER OF ALL SCHOOLS is a little North (maybe Greensboro?)
POPULATION CENTER of the ACC is even further North
BIGGEST CITY in the footprint - NYC, hands down
Population of NYC: 8.24 million
Population of entire state of NC: 9.75 million
(NY State = 19.75 million, more than Florida, more than VA + NC combined)

I want the ACC to succeed. I DON'T CARE how it's always been done... I only care about what will work best going forward. I'm fine with NYC but I'm also fine with Greensboro - as long as the decision is based on what's BEST for the future of the ACC.

here's another idea, how about we host 4 Home Games of the ACC/B1G Challenge at MSG, move ACC media day to NYC, add in couple of non con appearances, host summer skills camps by coaches,players etc & hold the the tourney in MSG 2 out of every 5 years. in other words there's more than one way to increase exposure, recruiting etc

There's one over riding reason for the ACC to move the tourney to MSG on at least a rotational basis. And it is that if we don't the B1G will eventually hold their tournament there. I'm not worried about the C7+2. They won't bring the crowds that UConn and Syracuse brought and really are still a mid major just based on the fact that they don't field football. If the ACC screws this up and ends up not in MSG at all, then we're opening the door for Jim Delany and the B1G plant themselves in NYC as the most exciting overall NCAA basketball tournament around.

The problem is how you get around MSG having less seats than Greensboro. With ACC schools tying tournament tickets to donations, it could mean Millions per school. No school is going to want less seats and that is on top of going from 12 to 15 schools in 2 years. Really, I think the Georgia Dome may squeak back into the running because they can provide so many seats that there would be some available to the public. MSG wants a long term deal. The ACC may agree to a rotational basis. I predict the ACC screws this up, MSG signs the C7+2 for 10 years and after that, the B1G hosts their tourney in MSG.

(03-15-2013 05:44 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  There's one over riding reason for the ACC to move the tourney to MSG on at least a rotational basis. And it is that if we don't the B1G will eventually hold their tournament there. I'm not worried about the C7+2. They won't bring the crowds that UConn and Syracuse brought and really are still a mid major just based on the fact that they don't field football. If the ACC screws this up and ends up not in MSG at all, then we're opening the door for Jim Delany and the B1G plant themselves in NYC as the most exciting overall NCAA basketball tournament around.

The problem is how you get around MSG having less seats than Greensboro. With ACC schools tying tournament tickets to donations, it could mean Millions per school. No school is going to want less seats and that is on top of going from 12 to 15 schools in 2 years. Really, I think the Georgia Dome may squeak back into the running because they can provide so many seats that there would be some available to the public. MSG wants a long term deal. The ACC may agree to a rotational basis. I predict the ACC screws this up, MSG signs the C7+2 for 10 years and after that, the B1G hosts their tourney in MSG.

scratch that... the ACC will have 15 basketball teams NEXT year! This is an urgent matter, IMO.

(03-15-2013 05:55 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 05:44 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  There's one over riding reason for the ACC to move the tourney to MSG on at least a rotational basis. And it is that if we don't the B1G will eventually hold their tournament there. I'm not worried about the C7+2. They won't bring the crowds that UConn and Syracuse brought and really are still a mid major just based on the fact that they don't field football. If the ACC screws this up and ends up not in MSG at all, then we're opening the door for Jim Delany and the B1G plant themselves in NYC as the most exciting overall NCAA basketball tournament around.

The problem is how you get around MSG having less seats than Greensboro. With ACC schools tying tournament tickets to donations, it could mean Millions per school. No school is going to want less seats and that is on top of going from 12 to 15 schools in 2 years. Really, I think the Georgia Dome may squeak back into the running because they can provide so many seats that there would be some available to the public. MSG wants a long term deal. The ACC may agree to a rotational basis. I predict the ACC screws this up, MSG signs the C7+2 for 10 years and after that, the B1G hosts their tourney in MSG.

scratch that... the ACC will have 15 basketball teams NEXT year! This is an urgent matter, IMO.

I'd like to expand on the idea of the C7+2 being a mid-major to NYC fans. NYC is as big time as it gets. The BE was big time in basketball because they had the small schools in big media markets (that a few were really good) playing the major schools who also had excellent basketball. I don't see NYC getting all that excited for Georgetown, Marquette, Xavier and Butler. Not like they would get excited for Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, UNC, Duke etc or the B1G schools. That's why I predicted that the C7+2 would only stay in MSG 10 years. After that contract, NYC will be longing to move back into the field of major NCAA athletics not just a collection of small schools in large media markets. This isn't the 1970's and even then the BE had BC Cuse and UConn.

Looking at all the maps in this thread, something occurs to me...

this is how the U.S. Census Bureau sees the United States:

(03-14-2013 11:00 PM)Cardinals Wrote:  The U.S. Census Bureau places New York in the Middle Atlantic region.

but this is how Jim Delany and the Big Ten see it:

I really hope the ACC can do something to jazz up the butts in the seats for games not played by Duke, UNC, or NC State. Watching the first round of games, and even today's games, is depressing with all of the empty seats. Contrast that with the BE, which is full....OR, even today's games for the B1G, which is mostly full. Greensboro has always had this issue and with the ACC branching out, other venues need to be considered.

(03-14-2013 10:37 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  There are no lights on in MSG...I'm not even convinced the upper deck is filled.


The fake "Big East" signs are pretty cool though. I love to see refs stepping on fake advertisements...gives the tournament a "magic" feel.

Dude, you are really really reaching.

The bottom line to me is that the ACCT is not always in Greensboro. But Greensboro should always be one of the cities where it is held. I say this because of its location and because of tradition. I think it would be fine if they held it every so often in MSG, Brooklin, Atlanta, Charlotte, or even Orlando or some other city in the footprint. But if MSG will only sign up the ACC if it is held there every year, then no.

I really think the new schools need to get into the league and experience all that is the ACC before they push too hard for changes.

Here is another map. I wonder why ND wants to play games in New York and Boston?

Between semis Swofford just said (on ACC Network) when asked about the future of the Tournament said this (paraphrased but pretty close to exactly)

"we are set for Greensboro for the next two years, the ADs are in the process of discussing what we do in the future, with our footprint expanded there may be some opportunities to play somewhere in our new footprint that will be beneficial to the league, we are having those discussions now, but I think it is fairly safe to say that the future may represent the past a bit looking forward because the roots of the tournament are so strong here in North Carolina and much of the success that has been built over the years has been here in North Carolina."

(03-16-2013 03:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Here is another map. I wonder why ND wants to play games in New York and Boston?

INTERESTING... I see that Va Tech, Clemson and Florida State are all located in areas with >10% Irish (you may have to zoom in a bit, but it's there)

I like the idea of rotating the tournament venue between msg, greensboro, and atlanta every 3 years

(03-16-2013 08:35 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 03:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  Here is another map. I wonder why ND wants to play games in New York and Boston?

INTERESTING... I see that Va Tech, Clemson and Florida State are all located in areas with >10% Irish (you may have to zoom in a bit, but it's there)

I think that you can clearly see the "Bible Belt" or the "black belt" stretching in an arc through the Southeast. The two maps match up fairly well together.

The white areas in the Southeast in the top photo matches up pretty well with the purple areas in the bottom photo. It is mostly Southern Baptist there.

You won't find many Catholics in this region, Irish-American or otherwise.