The respective Grants of Rights are going to be more of a factor than many think. That will leave only SEC and G5 teams free to "move about the plane"

The SEC doesn't have a GoR, so conceivably Mizzou could leave with little more than exit fees. But...why would it?. The SEC will surely be worth more money than the B1G, even with it's network; especially as it seems that football (popularity) is moving geographically south.

UVA, as someone earlier pointed out, doesn't need the B1G for academic empowerment, and is indeed tied to the politics of Virginia, as is VT. Before the GoR maybe FSU, Clemson and VT make a move, but UVA was never in the mix, and none are now.

As it stands now, and seems for the foreseeable future, ND will make more money with it's own media deal than it could with the ACC. Thay would have to change.

Someone mentioned Old Dominion. ODU is decades out from any possible P5 consideration. Unless media markets become even more important than they are now, ODU likely stays where it is or maybe gets some consideration from the AAC.
ECU is a small market institution, and unlike a VT and UVA, by virtue of the ACC schools already in the major NC markets, doesn't have the regional and state media appeal. It is hard to see the Pirates break into the P5 anytime soon.

AAC/MWC merger? I am not sure what advantages that brings to either conference (post GoR) now.

I guess if the B 12 expanded that Cincy could get a look...I am not sure about UConn though.

(1) ACC: Duke will be in a Northern Division before Wake will be.
(2) ACC: VPI will never leave the ACC.
(3) ACC: UVA will never leave Duke and UNC. The UNC/VA rivalry is the oldest football rivalry in the south if I'm not mistaken.
(4) B10: would have to go after UConn and maybe Kansas if they want to expand in the future. I think that they would be better off going with Mizzu and Kansas. If that happens, who knows what would occur?
(5) B12: I could see them adding Cincy, UConn, UCF, USF, BYU or even a Memphis or ECU (last choice).
(6) MWC/AAC: I could see one cohesive, gigantic conference forming out of all of this D4 talk; if that occurs, schools like Hawaii, Wyoming, Utah State and San Jose State might be in trouble. Tulsa would be in based on academic perception and athletic success while Tulane would be in because of academic perception and the city of New Orleans. San Jose State is in a great location but I'm not so sure that they're serious enough about football to give it a go. If they are, then Tulsa might be in trouble.
(7) Let's not forget that the academies may choose to not participate in D4.

(08-24-2013 03:20 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 03:05 PM)AtlantaEagle Wrote:  So ECU, Colorado State, Memphis gets in & Southern Miss doesn't?
That's a non-starter for the article as far as I'm concerned.

W/ all due respect because I feel S. Miss should be in the AAC now. However, if they're not in now what makes you think they'll be in that league in 2016?

The scenario presented has a new conference of 8 from the AAC and 6 from the MWC. With Cincy and UConn gone to the Big 12 and ACC, that leaves Tulsa and Tulane without a home. The teams not included in the "merger" would not leave voluntarily so that would require the forming of something new. So Tulsa and Tulane back to C-USA or the leftover 6 from the MWC join with western C-USA members?

the overwhelming majority of these schools are only on this list because they had the dumb luck of joining these conferences back before TV was even invented. And now, in spite of any substantial success on the football field schools like Wake Forrest and Iowa State see it as some God given birth right that they be among the chosen few to get rich while schools like Miami(Oh) that have the 16th highest career winning percentage in FBS are told to go pound sand because they didn't have the foresight to join the B1G in 1896.

Congress needs to get involved.

(08-24-2013 04:51 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I dont think Slive would take ALL the ACC southern schools but I think he would definitely take 4-6 of the VA/NC schools as a package (cant see any conference going beyond 18-20)

The speculation down here in regards to what you are saying was that if the ACC was breached that the SEC needed to be in a position to offer Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, N.C. State, Duke, and one other to get to 20. Since Pittsburgh would likely not be taken by the Big 10 and would bring a nice new market and would also be AAU the speculation was that in that scenario we might ask them. At the time the wild speculation was that the Big 12 would survive and that they would expand with the likes of Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, etc.

Now if the Big 12 is still vulnerable I believe considerable political pressure would come to bear in Florida, South Carolina and Georgia should anything happen to the ACC. I would think that now the SEC would have to consider the 3 North Carolina schools, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Florida State leaving the Virginia Schools out. The only other option would be to move to 24 and include the 2 Virginia schools, Miami, and Louisville.

In short, in order to get the North Carolina and Virginia Schools you have to take all 5 of the aforementioned. The argument for Pitt originally is that it was the only school we could take at #6 in this scenario that permits the total revenue of all six combined to be acceptable.

I think this is why originally the SEC was content to let the Big 10 raid and take Virginia and North Carolina and Duke (in theory) and take only Virginia Tech and N.C. State. Those two alone optimized the profitability of the deal. While fine in theory nobody is getting those schools unless they all come as a package, not Delany and not Slive.

I think Lumberpack is correct in saying the only way to land them would be to in essence recreate the old Southern Conference. If that happened the 10 taken would be the 2 Virginia's, all four of the ACC Carolina's, Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, and either Louisville or Miami.

I might add the only thing on the horizon that might make such a whopping move possible would be ESPN's inability to establish an ACCN for whatever reason and then the subsequent ensuing revenue gap may make that kind of cooperative effort more palatable for both parties. The Southeast region would then have extreme content to offer a network endeavor. The Football, Basketball, and Baseball would either be the finest in the nation, or equal to it. Olympic sports would be stellar. And the network would not lack for anything and would monopolize the most loyal college sports viewership base in the nation. Perhaps more importantly it would cut everyone's travel expenses to geographically establish divisions.

(08-24-2013 04:58 PM)goofus Wrote:  The parts I like that would have been feasible before the grant of rights:

Missouri & Va to Big Ten
VT to SEC
ND to ACC full time. UConn to ACC

So I was good up to there. But then it just got more odd the more you worked through the chain reaction. By the time you got to the MWC/AAC hybrid, it was off the rails.

Not me. I think it is all fantasy land.

(08-24-2013 08:14 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  the overwhelming majority of these schools are only on this list because they had the dumb luck of joining these conferences back before TV was even invented. And now, in spite of any substantial success on the football field schools like Wake Forrest and Iowa State see it as some God given birth right that they be among the chosen few to get rich while schools like Miami(Oh) that have the 16th highest career winning percentage in FBS are told to go pound sand because they didn't have the foresight to join the B1G in 1896.

Congress needs to get involved.

Oh good, we can turn this into another thread about crying to congress because nobody likes your team.

(08-24-2013 09:01 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 08:14 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  the overwhelming majority of these schools are only on this list because they had the dumb luck of joining these conferences back before TV was even invented. And now, in spite of any substantial success on the football field schools like Wake Forrest and Iowa State see it as some God given birth right that they be among the chosen few to get rich while schools like Miami(Oh) that have the 16th highest career winning percentage in FBS are told to go pound sand because they didn't have the foresight to join the B1G in 1896.

Congress needs to get involved.

Oh good, we can turn this into another thread about crying to congress because nobody likes your team.

Was having similar thoughts when I read that post.

That'll be great at the Congressional hearing

"Force those whose fans care to give their money and attention to those whose fans don't give a crap!"

Well the Democrats will certainly love that logic

(08-24-2013 09:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:01 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 08:14 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  the overwhelming majority of these schools are only on this list because they had the dumb luck of joining these conferences back before TV was even invented. And now, in spite of any substantial success on the football field schools like Wake Forrest and Iowa State see it as some God given birth right that they be among the chosen few to get rich while schools like Miami(Oh) that have the 16th highest career winning percentage in FBS are told to go pound sand because they didn't have the foresight to join the B1G in 1896.

Congress needs to get involved.

Oh good, we can turn this into another thread about crying to congress because nobody likes your team.

Was having similar thoughts when I read that post.

and you're both fans of teams that get the golden ticket. surprise.

Wake Forrest can't fill a stadium that only holds 31K and they have a lifetime winning % of 0.40998 which is only better than 3 FBS teams, BUT because they had the dumb luck of being an original member of the ACC when it started in 1953 they will get to reap the rewards now and forever as one of the few chosen teams that "deserves" to get the large payouts from ESPN because they've "earned it" by padding the win total for their conferences mates for 60 years.

so keep telling yourselves that this process is fair and based on who "deserves" it and who doesn't.

(08-24-2013 09:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:01 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 08:14 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  the overwhelming majority of these schools are only on this list because they had the dumb luck of joining these conferences back before TV was even invented. And now, in spite of any substantial success on the football field schools like Wake Forrest and Iowa State see it as some God given birth right that they be among the chosen few to get rich while schools like Miami(Oh) that have the 16th highest career winning percentage in FBS are told to go pound sand because they didn't have the foresight to join the B1G in 1896.

Congress needs to get involved.

Oh good, we can turn this into another thread about crying to congress because nobody likes your team.

Was having similar thoughts when I read that post.

and you're both fans of teams that get the golden ticket. surprise.

Wake Forrest can't fill a stadium that only holds 31K and they have a lifetime winning % of 0.40998 which is only better than 3 FBS teams, BUT because they had the dumb luck of being an original member of the ACC when it started in 1953 they will get to reap the rewards now and forever as one of the few chosen teams that "deserves" to get the large payouts from ESPN because they've "earned it" by padding the win total for their conferences mates for 60 years.

so keep telling yourselves that this process is fair and based on who "deserves" it and who doesn't.

They were part of a conference that invested in sports. The MAC took the same opportunity and squandered it. So who cares if they are a legacy team. What makes anyone in the MAC deserving of the "golden ticket"? Last I checked, nobody in the MAC was in danger of filling Wake's stadium.

So how does a conference whose BEST attendance leaders still average less than both Wake and Duke DESERVE to have the same amount of money and attention as the ACC?

I'll hang up and listen

(08-24-2013 09:10 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That'll be great at the Congressional hearing

"Force those whose fans care to give their money and attention to those whose fans don't give a crap!"

Well the Democrats will certainly love that logic

So I take it you feel the same way about government involvement in the funding of higher ed in Texas.

You would shart your maroon shorts if Texas opened up the PUF to all public universities in the state. But sure, there's no built in bias and your school just pulled itself up from the bootstraps.

(08-24-2013 09:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:01 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 08:14 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  the overwhelming majority of these schools are only on this list because they had the dumb luck of joining these conferences back before TV was even invented. And now, in spite of any substantial success on the football field schools like Wake Forrest and Iowa State see it as some God given birth right that they be among the chosen few to get rich while schools like Miami(Oh) that have the 16th highest career winning percentage in FBS are told to go pound sand because they didn't have the foresight to join the B1G in 1896.

Congress needs to get involved.

Oh good, we can turn this into another thread about crying to congress because nobody likes your team.

Was having similar thoughts when I read that post.

and you're both fans of teams that get the golden ticket. surprise.

Wake Forrest can't fill a stadium that only holds 31K and they have a lifetime winning % of 0.40998 which is only better than 3 FBS teams, BUT because they had the dumb luck of being an original member of the ACC when it started in 1953 they will get to reap the rewards now and forever as one of the few chosen teams that "deserves" to get the large payouts from ESPN because they've "earned it" by padding the win total for their conferences mates for 60 years.

so keep telling yourselves that this process is fair and based on who "deserves" it and who doesn't.

Who said anything about fairness? You think that is how this country and thus how our government operates in terms of whether or not they would step in and stop ANOTHER division from being formed within the NCAA....a voluntary membership organization that already has multiple divisions within it?

It is not a strong legal position that you have, it is not a strong constitutional position that you have and you have zero precedent to stand upon.

You just want our government to be your savior. What about our present day government makes you believe they could come together in such measure? They cant even come together in order to keep the government funded.

(08-24-2013 09:53 PM)gcoogs Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:10 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That'll be great at the Congressional hearing

"Force those whose fans care to give their money and attention to those whose fans don't give a crap!"

Well the Democrats will certainly love that logic

So I take it you feel the same way about government involvement in the funding of higher ed in Texas.

You would shart your maroon shorts if Texas opened up the PUF to all public universities in the state. But sure, there's no built in bias and your school just pulled itself up from the bootstraps.

Oh yes, the almighty PUF! The bottomless Scrooge McDuck money bin!

You do understand that 1) The PUF is not the funding but the interest off of it, 2) It is split among dozens of schools and agencies and HSCs and 3) it can ONLY be spent on very specific things like administrative costs and building loans, none of which make a university better.

There is simply no way A&M goes from 7K all male military school to 50k global research university with just PUF money (which we had access to for decades before the growth era began)

We got there because our alumni give a **** and donate the money we need for excellence. We had an alumni buy us a million dollar science building, our own students raised a million for the newest engineering building. If we had to wait on the state for these things Texas wouldn't have any national level schools

Records against P5:
Miami Ohio 32-79-5
Ohio 17-93
Wake Forest 238-501-18

(08-24-2013 07:37 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 03:20 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 03:05 PM)AtlantaEagle Wrote:  So ECU, Colorado State, Memphis gets in & Southern Miss doesn't?
That's a non-starter for the article as far as I'm concerned.

W/ all due respect because I feel S. Miss should be in the AAC now. However, if they're not in now what makes you think they'll be in that league in 2016?

The scenario presented has a new conference of 8 from the AAC and 6 from the MWC. With Cincy and UConn gone to the Big 12 and ACC, that leaves Tulsa and Tulane without a home. The teams not included in the "merger" would not leave voluntarily so that would require the forming of something new. So Tulsa and Tulane back to C-USA or the leftover 6 from the MWC join with western C-USA members?

Or does Banwskys dormant Alliance plan resurface? MW leftover 6+ AAC leftover 2, + a 14 member CUSA. That's 22 teams. Didn't the original plan call for like 24?

(08-24-2013 10:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:53 PM)gcoogs Wrote:  

(08-24-2013 09:10 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  That'll be great at the Congressional hearing

"Force those whose fans care to give their money and attention to those whose fans don't give a crap!"

Well the Democrats will certainly love that logic

So I take it you feel the same way about government involvement in the funding of higher ed in Texas.

You would shart your maroon shorts if Texas opened up the PUF to all public universities in the state. But sure, there's no built in bias and your school just pulled itself up from the bootstraps.

Oh yes, the almighty PUF! The bottomless Scrooge McDuck money bin!

You do understand that 1) The PUF is not the funding but the interest off of it, 2) It is split among dozens of schools and agencies and HSCs and 3) it can ONLY be spent on very specific things like administrative costs and building loans, none of which make a university better.

There is simply no way A&M goes from 7K all male military school to 50k global research university with just PUF money (which we had access to for decades before the growth era began)

We got there because our alumni give a **** and donate the money we need for excellence. We had an alumni buy us a million dollar science building, our own students raised a million for the newest engineering building. If we had to wait on the state for these things Texas wouldn't have any national level schools

Oh I'm not questioning ATM alumni involvment and support , which is second to none. Your loathing of government invlovment is just a little selective. I dont advocate congressional involvement either but to act like you are not currently and never have benefited from govenrment interevention is hypocritical.

I also realize the way PUF works but it's a $13 billion (with a b) fund. So yes, you would kind of miss the money and it is reasonable to assume you have benefited greatly from this particular form of govenrment handout.

Your funding is a "government handout" too

Any school would miss its funding

You are acting like A&M depended on the PUF to reach Tier 1 status which is simply not true.

During the years where the PUF was our primary source of funding we were smaller and less academically recognized than both UH and TT. It wasn't until our alumni base started growing in the 70s that their awesome giving started to make the real difference and our rankings started to improve (this was also the same time the AUF money started to decrease as well)

(08-24-2013 10:08 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  Records against P5:
Miami Ohio 32-79-5
Ohio 17-93
Wake Forest 238-501-18

wait a second, are you saying that P5 teams that have exponential advantages in revenue, resources, facilities and recruiting AND that refuse to play a MAC team on the road 99% of the time tend to win those match ups more often than not?

wow. amazing, who would have thunk it?

p.s. whats WF's excuse?