Read this... the Republican Party as a whole is about to have a civil war. Tea Party vs Mainstream Republicans. The Libertarian Party had nothing to do with this... you can blame all you want on Libertarians but at the end of the day it is the fault of their own party leaders for this mess.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/re...01031.html

The story you are not hearing is that there is also a war brewing in that other party, the one the media never talks bad about. Media wants to keep the focus on the Rs.

Politico isn't exactly unbiased. They started out pretty neutral but have rapidly drifted reliably left.

(12-12-2013 03:19 PM)mlb Wrote:  Read this... the Republican Party as a whole is about to have a civil war. Tea Party vs Mainstream Republicans. The Libertarian Party had nothing to do with this... you can blame all you want on Libertarians but at the end of the day it is the fault of their own party leaders for this mess.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/re...01031.html

The blame lies on those who are trying to take the GOP(and our Country) to the left - whether that be the media, the libertarians, George Soros or stupid voters.

This isn't about what is happening in the GOP. This is about the libertarians as another arm of the DNC.

If the libertarians want to criticize, they better figure out a way to garner more than 3 percent of the electorate.

(12-12-2013 03:23 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Politico isn't exactly unbiased. They started out pretty neutral but have rapidly drifted reliably left.

You are the first person I've heard say that... I have usually deemed them more conversative on the issues.

(12-12-2013 03:25 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  The blame lies on those who are trying to take the GOP(and our Country) to the left - whether that be the media, the libertarians, George Soros or stupid voters.

This isn't about what is happening in the GOP. This is about the libertarians as another arm of the DNC.

If the libertarians want to criticize, they better figure out a way to garner more than 3 percent of the electorate.

The country as a whole has gone more left socially. That is why the Republican party is hurting. That is why the conservative Christian base that the Republican's count on is hurting them as there aren't as many of them around as there used to be. Until the Republican's understand that they won't win with their current social views they'll never move forward.

(12-12-2013 03:29 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:25 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  The blame lies on those who are trying to take the GOP(and our Country) to the left - whether that be the media, the libertarians, George Soros or stupid voters.

This isn't about what is happening in the GOP. This is about the libertarians as another arm of the DNC.

If the libertarians want to criticize, they better figure out a way to garner more than 3 percent of the electorate.

The country as a whole has gone more left socially. That is why the Republican party is hurting. That is why the conservative Christian base that the Republican's count on is hurting them as there aren't as many of them around as there used to be. Until the Republican's understand that they won't win with their current social views they'll never move forward.

Hogwash. Social trends are revolutionary. They are controlled mainly by economics and the media. We are about 15 years behind Europe's social trends as they are experiencing a huge upsurge in far right factions. That will eventually happen here. That is a result of liberal initiatives creating chaos. Another reason the libertarians cannot gain control. Not only do they serve to accelerate those initiatives, they have no social narrative of their own. They bounce between the liberal and conservative ideology.

The Republicans have been hurting because of poor leadership and a media who is in bed with its opposition.

Countries start to fail when they begin to move left. Republicans will win on their current social views. The cycle must run its course. You will witness that in the next mid term elections.

Another strong observation regarding the libertarians: They don't seem to mind when Democrats win elections. Your party is helping this country slide to the left. It's time for you to get off our backs. Just embrace what you are. A left leaning party.

(12-12-2013 03:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Another reason the libertarians cannot gain control. Not only do they serve to accelerate those initiatives, they have no social narrative of their own. They bounce between the liberal and conservative ideology.

Once again you show you just do not understand the Libertarian social viewpoints.

Quote:The Republicans have been hurting because of poor leadership and a media who is in bed with its opposition.

I'll agree with you on half of that, and that is what I've been saying for months to you in these threads. The Republican Party is a shell of its former self and appears to have no interest in fixing it. That is why voters like me have left them behind... if I continue to vote for their candidates then I vote for the ridiculous viewpoints that are awful.

Quote:Countries start to fail when they begin to move left. Republicans will win on their current social views. The cycle must run its course. You will witness that in the next mid term elections.

They better with the setup that Obama has given them... if the Republicans don't win back both houses in the next election then it is completely due to inept leadership from the national level all the way down. Obamacare is probably the biggest failure in the history of America, certainly in recent American politics and if the Republicans can't capitalize on that then it goes to show just how bad the party is now.

Quote:Another strong observation regarding the libertarians: They don't seem to mind when Democrats win elections. Your party is helping this country slide to the left. It's time for you to get off our backs. Just embrace what you are. A left leaning party.

I refuse to vote Republican nor Democrat because they do the same things. I've said this over and over. They are both bought and paid for by corporations, they are both for higher spending. Neither of them are worried about solving the budget problems now, they keep kicking it down the road.

(12-12-2013 03:58 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 03:44 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Another reason the libertarians cannot gain control. Not only do they serve to accelerate those initiatives, they have no social narrative of their own. They bounce between the liberal and conservative ideology.

Once again you show you just do not understand the Libertarian social viewpoints.

Quote:The Republicans have been hurting because of poor leadership and a media who is in bed with its opposition.

I'll agree with you on half of that, and that is what I've been saying for months to you in these threads. The Republican Party is a shell of its former self and appears to have no interest in fixing it. That is why voters like me have left them behind... if I continue to vote for their candidates then I vote for the ridiculous viewpoints that are awful.

Quote:Countries start to fail when they begin to move left. Republicans will win on their current social views. The cycle must run its course. You will witness that in the next mid term elections.

They better with the setup that Obama has given them... if the Republicans don't win back both houses in the next election then it is completely due to inept leadership from the national level all the way down. Obamacare is probably the biggest failure in the history of America, certainly in recent American politics and if the Republicans can't capitalize on that then it goes to show just how bad the party is now.

Quote:Another strong observation regarding the libertarians: They don't seem to mind when Democrats win elections. Your party is helping this country slide to the left. It's time for you to get off our backs. Just embrace what you are. A left leaning party.

I refuse to vote Republican nor Democrat because they do the same things. I've said this over and over. They are both bought and paid for by corporations, they are both for higher spending. Neither of them are worried about solving the budget problems now, they keep kicking it down the road.

Refuse all you want, but just understand your refusal is a endorsement, and a vote for the DNC. Also understand your party doesn't have a product that can be sold outside your niche.

(12-12-2013 04:13 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Refuse all you want, but just understand your refusal is a endorsement, and a vote for the DNC. Also understand your party doesn't have a product that can be sold outside your niche.

Let me put it this way since you are so dense.

Me, as well as most other Libertarians, would be happy to vote Republican if they put someone up there worth my vote. Instead they keep running out these retreads that have zero ability to think outside the box and just keep toting the same worn out Republican rhetoric.

I refuse to continue to feed votes to a party that refuses to recognize the problems they have. They aren't trying to change it, instead they try to say "well, we aren't as bad as the Democrats."

Make positive changes to your party, listen to your constituents, and get power back. Don't attack others because you left them behind and they now no longer vote for you... or your mortal enemy.

Neither the rank and file or the everyday candidates of either party really bother me. It's the infrastructure, the leadership, and the non-elected people who have access to government processes that I have a problem with. Those 3 things run the show the same way in both parties.

(12-12-2013 04:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Neither the rank and file or the everyday candidates of either party really bother me. It's the infrastructure, the leadership, and the non-elected people who have access to government processes that I have a problem with. Those 3 things run the show the same way in both parties.

Busting in and saying the same thing you have always said doesn't change anything.

1. The libertarians appear to be connected to the Democrats
2. You don't have a product that can sell.
3. Either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to win elections.
4. Your actions only aid the Democrats.

Move away from your script and look at this situation critically.

(12-12-2013 04:20 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Neither the rank and file or the everyday candidates of either party really bother me. It's the infrastructure, the leadership, and the non-elected people who have access to government processes that I have a problem with. Those 3 things run the show the same way in both parties.

Busting in and saying the same thing you have always said doesn't change anything.

1. The libertarians appear to be connected to the Democrats
2. You don't have a product that can sell.
3. Either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to win elections.
4. Your actions only aid the Democrats.

Move away from your script and look at this situation critically.

Well you bust in and say the same things trying to change everything. Why can't I?

1. I'm not in anyway connected to Democrats. Voted for McCrory (may have been a mistake), Renee Ellmers, and one or two others in the last one and overwhelmingly GOP in 2008.

2. I'd agree that Libertarians don't have a cohesive product to sell. You can divide libertarian into a ton of subcategories. Either way, I think there is a product there, but it needs the right voice.

3. That's true for the foreseeable future. They win almost solely because people were basically raised into their ranks. If mommy and daddy voted a certain way, chances are they will too and it's very useful to recruitment. But hey, things happen, and the conditions provide a potential opportunity for a breakthrough. Will people just settle for "the lesser of two evils" to their own peril? Probably so. But let's hope something changes that one day.

4. Look, I don't owe the GOP sh1t. I wasn't born into their party so I don't give them a vote for nothing.

You seem to be the one who needs to step back and think critically. Your whole political stance is "I vote for A because they are inherently better than B, that's all that matters, So Help Me God." I mean, your first response to a Senator's CoS being involved in a child pornography scandal was: This is a democrat plan to hurt the GOP. You didn't mention the kids once. Not once.

(12-12-2013 04:16 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:13 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Refuse all you want, but just understand your refusal is a endorsement, and a vote for the DNC. Also understand your party doesn't have a product that can be sold outside your niche.

Let me put it this way since you are so dense.

Me, as well as most other Libertarians, would be happy to vote Republican if they put someone up there worth my vote. Instead they keep running out these retreads that have zero ability to think outside the box and just keep toting the same worn out Republican rhetoric.

I refuse to continue to feed votes to a party that refuses to recognize the problems they have. They aren't trying to change it, instead they try to say "well, we aren't as bad as the Democrats."

Make positive changes to your party, listen to your constituents, and get power back. Don't attack others because you left them behind and they now no longer vote for you... or your mortal enemy.

I haven't read anything in here except generalizations and platitudes. So, specifically what platform/ issues could the GOP adopt or embrace that would win back the Libertarian vote, assuming they/you drifted from the GOP in the first place?

What candidate, with a remotely decent chance of being elected (read: not Gary Johnson), could they offer up that would be worthy of your voting GOP?

The true Libertarians I've known are basically single issue guys and their single issue is pretty apparent.

Interesting read.

(12-12-2013 04:51 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:20 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Neither the rank and file or the everyday candidates of either party really bother me. It's the infrastructure, the leadership, and the non-elected people who have access to government processes that I have a problem with. Those 3 things run the show the same way in both parties.

Busting in and saying the same thing you have always said doesn't change anything.

1. The libertarians appear to be connected to the Democrats
2. You don't have a product that can sell.
3. Either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to win elections.
4. Your actions only aid the Democrats.

Move away from your script and look at this situation critically.

Well you bust in and say the same things trying to change everything. Why can't I?

1. I'm not in anyway connected to Democrats. Voted for McCrory (may have been a mistake), Renee Ellmers, and one or two others in the last one and overwhelmingly GOP in 2008.

2. I'd agree that Libertarians don't have a cohesive product to sell. You can divide libertarian into a ton of subcategories. Either way, I think there is a product there, but it needs the right voice.

3. That's true for the foreseeable future. They win almost solely because people were basically raised into their ranks. If mommy and daddy voted a certain way, chances are they will too and it's very useful to recruitment. But hey, things happen, and the conditions provide a potential opportunity for a breakthrough. Will people just settle for "the lesser of two evils" to their own peril? Probably so. But let's hope something changes that one day.

4. Look, I don't owe the GOP sh1t. I wasn't born into their party so I don't give them a vote for nothing.

You seem to be the one who needs to step back and think critically. Your whole political stance is "I vote for A because they are inherently better than B, that's all that matters, So Help Me God." I mean, your first response to a Senator's CoS being involved in a child pornography scandal was: This is a democrat plan to hurt the GOP. You didn't mention the kids once. Not once.

******* dude, this is not about you personally. "You" meaning the libertarians.

I have stated about 5 facts regarding the libertarian movement. They stand. Your feelings about the GOP or "the parties are both the same" does not change your(libertarian party) placement in society or how people view the libertarian party.

I go by actions. Not words. My stance on the libertarians is based in actions by the libertarian party itself.

(12-11-2013 07:32 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:29 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 05:47 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 05:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I'm not happy about this. We need a 6 month long 'clown car' primary where it forces all GOP candidates to the far right and they spend a billion debates reinforcing the idea that the GOP candidates are all a bunch of lunatics to the American people.

Yea, because McCain and Romney were such radical anti-government candidates.

Yes, because Obama is the exact same thing.

Yep no difference - Obamacare, habitual lying, totalitarianism and Benghazi be damned.

You might have had something on McCain on ObamaCare. But Romney is the godfather of Obamacare. So no, no difference there whatsoever.

It's comments like this that honestly make me believe libertarians are just another arm of the DNC.

It's comments like this that make me believe you're a fool incapable of independent thought.

(12-12-2013 05:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:32 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:29 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 05:47 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Yea, because McCain and Romney were such radical anti-government candidates.

Yes, because Obama is the exact same thing.

Yep no difference - Obamacare, habitual lying, totalitarianism and Benghazi be damned.

You might have had something on McCain on ObamaCare. But Romney is the godfather of Obamacare. So no, no difference there whatsoever.

It's comments like this that honestly make me believe libertarians are just another arm of the DNC.

It's comments like this that make me believe you're a fool incapable of independent thought.

and it's comments like this that prove you cannot comprehend this discussion, demonstrated by your last resort - the personal attack.

(12-12-2013 04:20 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Neither the rank and file or the everyday candidates of either party really bother me. It's the infrastructure, the leadership, and the non-elected people who have access to government processes that I have a problem with. Those 3 things run the show the same way in both parties.

Busting in and saying the same thing you have always said doesn't change anything.

1. The libertarians appear to be connected to the Democrats
2. You don't have a product that can sell.
3. Either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to win elections.
4. Your actions only aid the Democrats.

Move away from your script and look at this situation critically.

I guess that's why Ron Paul runs as a Republican?

(12-12-2013 06:44 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 08:07 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 08:03 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:54 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:42 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  That doesn't tell me anything. That is my observation from watching libertarians. Libertarians help democrats win elections....period.

How so?

By making it very hard to get an edge. By constantly attacking the GOP and aligning themselves with the liberal media's attack on the GOP. By diluting the vote. I honestly don't see much difference between the common libertarians and liberals. They kind of remind me of anarcho socialists with their attitude on entities like the police. Other than that, I don't see much of the fiscal savings but a whole lot of the social liberalism.+


We are at war with liberalism. That will only escalate. At some point the libertarians are going to have to choose. The GOP is the only weapon we have against liberalism - and libertarians promote much of the liberal agenda.

Yes..Limited government and Fiscal and personal responsibility are for sure Liberal agendas. Gotcha.

And you'd throw it all away in order for homosexual perverts to be normalized and celebrated.

Nobody is going to agree 100%. Libertarians need to step back and reassess priorities and the republican establishment needs to go.

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(12-12-2013 05:45 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 05:42 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:32 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:30 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-11-2013 07:29 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  Yes, because Obama is the exact same thing.

Yep no difference - Obamacare, habitual lying, totalitarianism and Benghazi be damned.

You might have had something on McCain on ObamaCare. But Romney is the godfather of Obamacare. So no, no difference there whatsoever.

It's comments like this that honestly make me believe libertarians are just another arm of the DNC.

It's comments like this that make me believe you're a fool incapable of independent thought.

and it's comments like this that prove you cannot comprehend this discussion, demonstrated by your last resort - the personal attack.

Actually it was my first resort in this thread. I've read enough of your insane posts to realize you're a lock-step Republican homer believing they can do no wrong. Party over principle.

(12-12-2013 06:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:20 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:  

(12-12-2013 04:17 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Neither the rank and file or the everyday candidates of either party really bother me. It's the infrastructure, the leadership, and the non-elected people who have access to government processes that I have a problem with. Those 3 things run the show the same way in both parties.

Busting in and saying the same thing you have always said doesn't change anything.

1. The libertarians appear to be connected to the Democrats
2. You don't have a product that can sell.
3. Either the Democrats or the Republicans are going to win elections.
4. Your actions only aid the Democrats.

Move away from your script and look at this situation critically.

I guess that's why Ron Paul runs as a Republican?

That's the problem.