(03-14-2014 12:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:56 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Fixed.

ok so if the tourny is located in syracuse then i can just spin that as 20 million and say it is an acceptable location?

Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

The ACC has gotten higher attendance at Greensboro than in any other non-dome site... and it does it year-in and year-out:

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/I...urney.aspx

More than DC. More than Phillips Arena in Atlanta. More than Charlotte. More than Tampa. It will end up being more than NYC, as it's more than what the sold-out tournaments of the old Big East at MSG (which is larger than Barclays) drew. All of that is despite the fact that on paper, there are more ACC alums in all of those other larger markets. The point is that "on paper" is irrelevant here when it comes to Greensboro when looking at the reality of the history of ticket sales. You're severely underestimating how much Greensboro *specifically* means to the ACC.

and all the locations that GC is compared to are in the south or in DC in 06 before the infusion of northern teams.

sorry dude but the added hype/exposure that ANY other location brings is worth the attendance dropping by 3k. not to mention the fact that GC is a dump and it gives a certain 4 schools an advantage.......

(03-14-2014 12:19 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:56 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:25 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i disagree. the difference between indy/chicago vs greensboro is that those two cities are among the largest population centers within the b10 blueprint. greensboro is nowhere close to being a major population center within the acc footprint/ especially when the acc covers the entire east coast.

chicago 2.7 mill
indy 844k
greensboro 277K North Carolina 9.8 million

see the difference?

Fixed.

ok so if the tourny is located in syracuse then i can just spin that as 20 million and say it is an acceptable location?

Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

You can see the impact this geographical fact has had on the tourney over the years. When your team lost, it was a simple matter of selling your remaining tix on your way out the door to fans who couldn't get tix to the first round games and driving home. After all, there's not much keeping you in Greensboro if you drove there. But if you've flown to NYC, you have a mixed blessing. Your flight schedule keeps you in town, but at least there's lots to do besides watch teams you don't care about play basketball.

Syracuse would be the worst of both worlds. Stuck waiting for your flight home, but nothing to do. Of course, I've never heard anybody seriously suggest playing the tourney in Syracuse, so what does it matter?

Actually Syracuse offers a huge entertainment mall in town and Cooperstown, Canada and Niagara Falls nearby for some things to do...but sadly no golf in March and early/mid March in Syracuse is typically in the 30's and low 40's still ...but your point is correct...NYC is the best place to be stuck at (if you have $$$). One of my favorite things to do in NYC is quite simple and cheap. Take the subway to the tip of Manhattan, take the Staten Island Ferry and sail right by the Statue of Liberty. Take the return boat and then subway to Little Italy for a late lunch.

(03-14-2014 12:31 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:56 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Fixed.

ok so if the tourny is located in syracuse then i can just spin that as 20 million and say it is an acceptable location?

Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

More than 50 million people (and 10 of the 15 ACC schools) are in Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida combined.

and the reality is that duke, virginia, pitt, syracuse, unc, & notre dame will always draw the largest. the majority of the alumni of those schools live north of the NC/VA border.

(03-14-2014 12:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:56 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:51 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Fixed.

ok so if the tourny is located in syracuse then i can just spin that as 20 million and say it is an acceptable location?

Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

The ACC has gotten higher attendance at Greensboro than in any other non-dome site... and it does it year-in and year-out:

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/I...urney.aspx

More than DC. More than Phillips Arena in Atlanta. More than Charlotte. More than Tampa. It will end up being more than NYC, as it's more than what the sold-out tournaments of the old Big East at MSG (which is larger than Barclays) drew. All of that is despite the fact that on paper, there are more ACC alums in all of those other larger markets. The point is that "on paper" is irrelevant here when it comes to Greensboro when looking at the reality of the history of ticket sales. You're severely underestimating how much Greensboro *specifically* means to the ACC.

Another detail: Greensboro's arena seats over 23,500. So occasionally playing the ACC tournament someplace else has some value, but the price to be paid is selling fewer tickets. Barclays Arena says it seats 17,703 for Nets games. That means that the ACC will sell almost 6,000 fewer ticket packages any year they play in Brooklyn instead of Greensboro. If the face value is $300 per ticket book, the ticket revenue will be about $1.8 million more in any year they play in Greensboro.

(03-14-2014 12:29 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:23 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:56 AM)john01992 Wrote:  ok so if the tourny is located in syracuse then i can just spin that as 20 million and say it is an acceptable location?

Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

That may be true. But the question isn't where do fans live. It's where do fans who will travel to the tournament live. As long as there are NC teams still alive in the tournament, the fans will be there. But it will be interesting to see how many fans will show up for the weekend games if NC teams are already eliminated - and with 15 teams, that's now a lot more likely than it has been in the past.

the answer is north of the NC/VA border.

NC state had piss poor attendance last night. acting like greensboro is an attractive option due to attendance is a total joke and a flat out lie because everything we have seen so far proves that that is not the case.

with NYC you will fill it up regardless. granted MSG would be much better but that is not an option right now.

Ga Tech-Boston College
Miami-Va Tech
Notre Dame-Wake Forest
Maryland-Florida St
Pitt-Wake Forest
Miami-NC State
Clemson-Ga Tech

Yeah. Those games are going to pack MSG on a weekday afternoon. And, if you want to have a civil conversation, you might consider not calling people liars.

(03-14-2014 12:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 11:56 AM)john01992 Wrote:  ok so if the tourny is located in syracuse then i can just spin that as 20 million and say it is an acceptable location?

Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

The ACC has gotten higher attendance at Greensboro than in any other non-dome site... and it does it year-in and year-out:

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/I...urney.aspx

More than DC. More than Phillips Arena in Atlanta. More than Charlotte. More than Tampa. It will end up being more than NYC, as it's more than what the sold-out tournaments of the old Big East at MSG (which is larger than Barclays) drew. All of that is despite the fact that on paper, there are more ACC alums in all of those other larger markets. The point is that "on paper" is irrelevant here when it comes to Greensboro when looking at the reality of the history of ticket sales. You're severely underestimating how much Greensboro *specifically* means to the ACC.

and all the locations that GC is compared to are in the south or in DC in 06 before the infusion of northern teams.

sorry dude but the added hype/exposure that ANY other location brings is worth the attendance dropping by 3k. not to mention the fact that GC is a dump and it gives a certain 4 schools an advantage.......

Well, I see that you're a Syracuse fan, so it doesn't shock me that you'd feel that way. What I see is a lot of ACC fans (generally the newbies) completely overstating how much of a Northern presence that the league actually has. The "infusion" of Northern teams is Syracuse, Pitt, ND and preexisting BC (and it just lost kinda-Northern Maryland). That's only 4 out of 15 schools. So, the ACC might be a coastal league, but it's NOT a Northern league. It has a Northern presence in the same way that the Big Ten has an Eastern presence (with 3 Eastern teams with PSU, Rutgers and Maryland), but few people are claiming that the Big Ten has suddenly turned in to an Eastern league in the way that the new ACC fans are trying to argue that the ACC is somehow now a Northern league. NYC certainly makes sense to be in a rotation for the ACC, but it doesn't make sense to make that into a permanent location. The ACC is still a predominantly Southern league, whether the latest defectors from the Big East want to believe it or not.

(03-14-2014 12:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

The ACC has gotten higher attendance at Greensboro than in any other non-dome site... and it does it year-in and year-out:

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/I...urney.aspx

More than DC. More than Phillips Arena in Atlanta. More than Charlotte. More than Tampa. It will end up being more than NYC, as it's more than what the sold-out tournaments of the old Big East at MSG (which is larger than Barclays) drew. All of that is despite the fact that on paper, there are more ACC alums in all of those other larger markets. The point is that "on paper" is irrelevant here when it comes to Greensboro when looking at the reality of the history of ticket sales. You're severely underestimating how much Greensboro *specifically* means to the ACC.

and all the locations that GC is compared to are in the south or in DC in 06 before the infusion of northern teams.

sorry dude but the added hype/exposure that ANY other location brings is worth the attendance dropping by 3k. not to mention the fact that GC is a dump and it gives a certain 4 schools an advantage.......

Well, I see that you're a Syracuse fan, so it doesn't shock me that you'd feel that way. What I see is a lot of ACC fans (generally the newbies) completely overstating how much of a Northern presence that the league actually has. The "infusion" of Northern teams is Syracuse, Pitt, ND and preexisting BC (and it just lost kinda-Northern Maryland). That's only 4 out of 15 schools. So, the ACC might be a coastal league, but it's NOT a Northern league. It has a Northern presence in the same way that the Big Ten has an Eastern presence (with 3 Eastern teams with PSU, Rutgers and Maryland), but few people are claiming that the Big Ten has suddenly turned in to an Eastern league in the way that the new ACC fans are trying to argue that the ACC is somehow now a Northern league. NYC certainly makes sense to be in a rotation for the ACC, but it doesn't make sense to make that into a permanent location. The ACC is still a predominantly Southern league, whether the latest defectors from the Big East want to believe it or not.

it may be just "4 out of 15" but 2 of those schools (notre dame & syracuse) and on top of that duke are among the largest BB fanbases in the conference and all 3 of them have a major NYC presence. on top of that miami recruits a large number of its student body out of the north east, UVA has its largest concentration in the north not the south, and louisville fans overwhelmingly support MSG.

your attitude is reflective of this myth that no ACC fans of the "old schools" live in the north but the reality is that some have large numbers of fans in that region. why do you think duke makes two separate ooc trips to NYC each year?

from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

(03-14-2014 12:46 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:29 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:23 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Look at a map. Greensboro is within a 2-hour drive of every population center in the state, and within a 3-hour drive of at least half a dozen ACC schools. You can't say that about Syracuse.

and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

That may be true. But the question isn't where do fans live. It's where do fans who will travel to the tournament live. As long as there are NC teams still alive in the tournament, the fans will be there. But it will be interesting to see how many fans will show up for the weekend games if NC teams are already eliminated - and with 15 teams, that's now a lot more likely than it has been in the past.

the answer is north of the NC/VA border.

NC state had piss poor attendance last night. acting like greensboro is an attractive option due to attendance is a total joke and a flat out lie because everything we have seen so far proves that that is not the case.

with NYC you will fill it up regardless. granted MSG would be much better but that is not an option right now.

Ga Tech-Boston College
Miami-Va Tech
Notre Dame-Wake Forest
Maryland-Florida St
Pitt-Wake Forest
Miami-NC State
Clemson-Ga Tech

Yeah. Those games are going to pack MSG on a weekday afternoon. And, if you want to have a civil conversation, you might consider not calling people liars.

believe it or not they will. why do you think the BE always had such high attendance rates even with more expensive ticket prices.

(03-14-2014 01:02 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:46 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:29 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:23 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

That may be true. But the question isn't where do fans live. It's where do fans who will travel to the tournament live. As long as there are NC teams still alive in the tournament, the fans will be there. But it will be interesting to see how many fans will show up for the weekend games if NC teams are already eliminated - and with 15 teams, that's now a lot more likely than it has been in the past.

the answer is north of the NC/VA border.

NC state had piss poor attendance last night. acting like greensboro is an attractive option due to attendance is a total joke and a flat out lie because everything we have seen so far proves that that is not the case.

with NYC you will fill it up regardless. granted MSG would be much better but that is not an option right now.

Ga Tech-Boston College
Miami-Va Tech
Notre Dame-Wake Forest
Maryland-Florida St
Pitt-Wake Forest
Miami-NC State
Clemson-Ga Tech

Yeah. Those games are going to pack MSG on a weekday afternoon. And, if you want to have a civil conversation, you might consider not calling people liars.

believe it or not they will. why do you think the BE always had such high attendance rates even with more expensive ticket prices.

Because they had more good teams and MSG was local. In the 70's and 80's the ACC had 4-5 good teams out of 8. Recently, it was more like 2 or 3 good teams out of 12. The Big East had 8-10 good teams, plus the mediocre teams were local to MSG.

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

Now you want to move the tournament just 90 miles away to an arena with a capacity that is more than 3,000 less than Greensboro. Explain to the conference ADs the "benefit" that justifies losing $1 million in ticket revenue for the tournament.

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:37 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:31 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:10 PM)john01992 Wrote:  and like i said earlier. the DEMOGRAPHICS of the ACC put most ACC BB fans OUTSIDE of that area

The ACC has gotten higher attendance at Greensboro than in any other non-dome site... and it does it year-in and year-out:

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/I...urney.aspx

More than DC. More than Phillips Arena in Atlanta. More than Charlotte. More than Tampa. It will end up being more than NYC, as it's more than what the sold-out tournaments of the old Big East at MSG (which is larger than Barclays) drew. All of that is despite the fact that on paper, there are more ACC alums in all of those other larger markets. The point is that "on paper" is irrelevant here when it comes to Greensboro when looking at the reality of the history of ticket sales. You're severely underestimating how much Greensboro *specifically* means to the ACC.

and all the locations that GC is compared to are in the south or in DC in 06 before the infusion of northern teams.

sorry dude but the added hype/exposure that ANY other location brings is worth the attendance dropping by 3k. not to mention the fact that GC is a dump and it gives a certain 4 schools an advantage.......

Well, I see that you're a Syracuse fan, so it doesn't shock me that you'd feel that way. What I see is a lot of ACC fans (generally the newbies) completely overstating how much of a Northern presence that the league actually has. The "infusion" of Northern teams is Syracuse, Pitt, ND and preexisting BC (and it just lost kinda-Northern Maryland). That's only 4 out of 15 schools. So, the ACC might be a coastal league, but it's NOT a Northern league. It has a Northern presence in the same way that the Big Ten has an Eastern presence (with 3 Eastern teams with PSU, Rutgers and Maryland), but few people are claiming that the Big Ten has suddenly turned in to an Eastern league in the way that the new ACC fans are trying to argue that the ACC is somehow now a Northern league. NYC certainly makes sense to be in a rotation for the ACC, but it doesn't make sense to make that into a permanent location. The ACC is still a predominantly Southern league, whether the latest defectors from the Big East want to believe it or not.

it may be just "4 out of 15" but 2 of those schools (notre dame & syracuse) and on top of that duke are among the largest BB fanbases in the conference and all 3 of them have a major NYC presence. on top of that miami recruits a large number of its student body out of the north east, UVA has its largest concentration in the north not the south, and louisville fans overwhelmingly support MSG.

your attitude is reflective of this myth that no ACC fans of the "old schools" live in the north but the reality is that some have large numbers of fans in that region. why do you think duke makes two separate ooc trips to NYC each year?

from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

I am an ND fan and I will readily admit that there is not a very large fan base for ND basketball.

Most ND fans could care less about basketball, period.

(03-14-2014 01:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

Now you want to move the tournament just 90 miles away to an arena with a capacity that is more than 3,000 less than Greensboro. Explain to the conference ADs the "benefit" that justifies losing $1 million in ticket revenue for the tournament.

Actually, in the early years of the ACCT, there was such a benefit. The money to be made wasn't in the price of the tickets, but in their scarcity. Because they were so hard to get, with all the schools close by, you had to be a major donor to have the right to buy tickets. Those booster club donations were one of the major revenue sources for all ACC schools before the days of inflated TV contracts.

[/quote]

Why do you despise the idea? Just curious.
[/quote]

Just a traditionalist. The old ACC does not exist anymore to me. I remember watching Bias, Jordan, Spudd, Mugsey, etc with old Lenny Wirtz refing when I was in college. I remember going to my first Tournament was my last year in college. I actually went to the last ACC tournament of 9 teams before VA Tech and Miami joined. It was a great 3 day weekend. Now with it being 5 days, I don't know if I want to spend 5 days that way. Guess I am getting to be long in the tooth.


I was always support the ACC, I just don't know if I could ever route for Pitt, BC, Syracuse just because they are in the ACC. They will be great for the conference like Louisville, VT and Miami but they just don't fit my view of what they ACC is supposed to be.


I understand why the New ACC is doing moves like this but the ACCT just does not have that special feel anymore. :( But as Dylan stated "The times, they are a changing". I guess I just became one of those Old Timers longing for the old days.

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  it may be just "4 out of 15" but 2 of those schools (notre dame & syracuse) and on top of that duke are among the largest BB fanbases in the conference and all 3 of them have a major NYC presence. on top of that miami recruits a large number of its student body out of the north east, UVA has its largest concentration in the north not the south, and louisville fans overwhelmingly support MSG.

your attitude is reflective of this myth that no ACC fans of the "old schools" live in the north but the reality is that some have large numbers of fans in that region. why do you think duke makes two separate ooc trips to NYC each year?

from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

I completely understand that there are plenty of ACC alums in the North, which is why I said that it makes sense to have NYC as part of the rotation. What I'm pushing back on is this thought that this translates that the ACC should move its tournament to the North every year and/or abandon Greensboro entirely, which makes zero sense for the ACC overall unless you're a Syracuse fan specifically.

(03-14-2014 01:18 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

Now you want to move the tournament just 90 miles away to an arena with a capacity that is more than 3,000 less than Greensboro. Explain to the conference ADs the "benefit" that justifies losing $1 million in ticket revenue for the tournament.

Actually, in the early years of the ACCT, there was such a benefit. The money to be made wasn't in the price of the tickets, but in their scarcity. Because they were so hard to get, with all the schools close by, you had to be a major donor to have the right to buy tickets. Those booster club donations were one of the major revenue sources for all ACC schools before the days of inflated TV contracts.

Isn't that still the case for many ACC schools, even with the tournament in Greensboro? The ACC website says that ACC tournament ticket books can only be purchased through an ACC member school. I assume that means that the right to purchase those books is first given to the largest donors, then the next tier of donors, then maybe to season-ticket holders (like many schools do with football bowl game tickets).

Why do you despise the idea? Just curious.
[/quote]

Just a traditionalist. The old ACC does not exist anymore to me. I remember watching Bias, Jordan, Spudd, Mugsey, etc with old Lenny Wirtz refing when I was in college. I remember going to my first Tournament was my last year in college. I actually went to the last ACC tournament of 9 teams before VA Tech and Miami joined. It was a great 3 day weekend. Now with it being 5 days, I don't know if I want to spend 5 days that way. Guess I am getting to be long in the tooth.


I was always support the ACC, I just don't know if I could ever route for Pitt, BC, Syracuse just because they are in the ACC. They will be great for the conference like Louisville, VT and Miami but they just don't fit my view of what they ACC is supposed to be.


I understand why the New ACC is doing moves like this but the ACCT just does not have that special feel anymore. :( But as Dylan stated "The times, they are a changing". I guess I just became one of those Old Timers longing for the old days.
[/quote]


The old ACC doesn't exist for anybody anymore. But that probably would have been true even if the league never expanded beyond eight schools. As for being long in the tooth, I knew I'd reached that point when I took my kids to the Smithsonian and saw an exhibit of office machines that I had used as a loan clerk in a bank in the early 60's. What I've since learned is that getting old is not for sissies.

(03-14-2014 01:30 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:18 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

Now you want to move the tournament just 90 miles away to an arena with a capacity that is more than 3,000 less than Greensboro. Explain to the conference ADs the "benefit" that justifies losing $1 million in ticket revenue for the tournament.

Actually, in the early years of the ACCT, there was such a benefit. The money to be made wasn't in the price of the tickets, but in their scarcity. Because they were so hard to get, with all the schools close by, you had to be a major donor to have the right to buy tickets. Those booster club donations were one of the major revenue sources for all ACC schools before the days of inflated TV contracts.

Isn't that still the case for many ACC schools, even with the tournament in Greensboro? The ACC website says that ACC tournament ticket books can only be purchased through an ACC member school. I assume that means that the right to purchase those books is first given to the largest donors, then the next tier of donors, then maybe to season-ticket holders (like many schools do with football bowl game tickets).

Tickets are still sold through the schools, and the priority is still based on donations. But two things are in play: Now, many schools go much further down their donor list than they used to, and donations as a percent of overall athletic revenues aren't nearly as significant as they used to be. Plus, some schools (like BC and Miami) don't even take their full allotment, so tickets just aren't all that scarce.

Today, at Duke, you need to be a major donor just to get season tickets, so there's not much extra benefit to also get ACCT tickets for the same donation.

(03-14-2014 01:23 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  it may be just "4 out of 15" but 2 of those schools (notre dame & syracuse) and on top of that duke are among the largest BB fanbases in the conference and all 3 of them have a major NYC presence. on top of that miami recruits a large number of its student body out of the north east, UVA has its largest concentration in the north not the south, and louisville fans overwhelmingly support MSG.

your attitude is reflective of this myth that no ACC fans of the "old schools" live in the north but the reality is that some have large numbers of fans in that region. why do you think duke makes two separate ooc trips to NYC each year?

from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

I completely understand that there are plenty of ACC alums in the North, which is why I said that it makes sense to have NYC as part of the rotation. What I'm pushing back on is this thought that this translates that the ACC should move its tournament to the North every year and/or abandon Greensboro entirely, which makes zero sense for the ACC overall unless you're a Syracuse fan specifically.

the rationale to abandon GC has more to do with the fact that the arena there is outdated, in a bad section of town, and offers nothing else for entertainment purposes. On top of that the city hasn't exactly invested in keeping the event there with infrastructure/arena upgrades.

(03-14-2014 01:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  from what i see several ACC fans who are a fan of a southern school realize that GC is a major problem and that if there should be any tourny in that state in should be in charlotte.

Now you want to move the tournament just 90 miles away to an arena with a capacity that is more than 3,000 less than Greensboro. Explain to the conference ADs the "benefit" that justifies losing $1 million in ticket revenue for the tournament.

better location, better arena, better fan support.

(03-14-2014 10:36 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 09:33 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 09:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The only question is how many ACC teams will need to play at A-10 teams in order to get the A-10 to move to the Verizon Center in DC a year early.

Got plenty of teams to fill up the dance card

UMass-URI vs. BC
Fordham-St.B vs. Syracuse
Duquesne-La Salle-Saint Joseph's vs. Pitt
Dayton vs ND
George Washington-George Mason-Richmond-VCU vs. VT & Virginia
Saint Louis vs. Louisville
Davidson vs. Duke, UNC, Wake, or NC State

That list illustrates why there isn't going to be any deal like that.

There's no way all or nearly all of the ACC teams will agree to play a road game like that just to get their hoops tournament into NYC one year earlier. Syracuse is going to play at St. Bonaventure? Yeah, riiiiiiiiight.

You could have a couple of TV-friendly early-season doubleheaders between A-10 and ACC teams at neutral sites -- but that doesn't do anything for the two-thirds of A-10 teams who don't get anything, so why would they agree to give up their 2017 arena contract? Just so they can turn on ESPN and watch Duke play VCU in DC?

If ESPN really cared about whether the ACC tournament is in NYC or DC in any one year, then they could sprinkle some money around and get the A-10 to vacate those 2017 dates at Barclays Center, but I doubt ESPN cares enough to do that, because the location of the ACC tournament won't affect the TV ratings.

I think the A-10 is gonna play a bit harder than that. The ACC can wait till our contract ends to start in Brooklyn. The A-10 is NOT an ESPN conference. I don't get why the ACC feels the need to move a year earlier than 2017.

I like the idea of UNC playing at the other Smith Center (DC).

Or a 2 year long A-10/ACC Challenge held as a home and home and marketed as a matchup between the two conferences, as if they are equals.