(03-14-2014 02:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 10:36 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 09:33 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 09:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The only question is how many ACC teams will need to play at A-10 teams in order to get the A-10 to move to the Verizon Center in DC a year early.

Got plenty of teams to fill up the dance card

UMass-URI vs. BC
Fordham-St.B vs. Syracuse
Duquesne-La Salle-Saint Joseph's vs. Pitt
Dayton vs ND
George Washington-George Mason-Richmond-VCU vs. VT & Virginia
Saint Louis vs. Louisville
Davidson vs. Duke, UNC, Wake, or NC State

That list illustrates why there isn't going to be any deal like that.

There's no way all or nearly all of the ACC teams will agree to play a road game like that just to get their hoops tournament into NYC one year earlier. Syracuse is going to play at St. Bonaventure? Yeah, riiiiiiiiight.

You could have a couple of TV-friendly early-season doubleheaders between A-10 and ACC teams at neutral sites -- but that doesn't do anything for the two-thirds of A-10 teams who don't get anything, so why would they agree to give up their 2017 arena contract? Just so they can turn on ESPN and watch Duke play VCU in DC?

If ESPN really cared about whether the ACC tournament is in NYC or DC in any one year, then they could sprinkle some money around and get the A-10 to vacate those 2017 dates at Barclays Center, but I doubt ESPN cares enough to do that, because the location of the ACC tournament won't affect the TV ratings.

I think the A-10 is gonna play a bit harder than that. The ACC can wait till our contract ends to start in Brooklyn. The A-10 is NOT an ESPN conference. I don't get why the ACC feels the need to move a year earlier than 2017.

I like the idea of UNC playing at the other Smith Center (DC).

Or a 2 year long A-10/ACC Challenge held as a home and home and marketed as a matchup between the two conferences, as if they are equals.

oh no you didn't......

North Carolina is playing like the ACC Tournament has already been moved because it hasn't showed up against PITT... 27-11.....

Word is out: ACC to Barclays Center for 17 and 18, will have link(or tweet) shortly.

I was just guessing earlier in this thread, but it looks like ACC/A-10 doubleheaders at a neutral site (Barclays) is one of the components to a deal to give the ACC the 2017 tournament dates:

Quote:In exchange for the A-10 exiting Barclays a year earlier, the ACC has offered to play a series of regular-season doubleheaders against the A-10 in the facility. Neutral-site games against ACC teams would be a coup for the A-10, elevating its visibility and, in theory, its teams computer rankings, a critical component of the NCAA tournament selection process.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...09175.post

(03-14-2014 03:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I was just guessing earlier in this thread, but it looks like ACC/A-10 doubleheaders at a neutral site (Barclays) is one of the components to a deal to give the ACC the 2017 tournament dates:

Quote:In exchange for the A-10 exiting Barclays a year earlier, the ACC has offered to play a series of regular-season doubleheaders against the A-10 in the facility. Neutral-site games against ACC teams would be a coup for the A-10, elevating its visibility and, in theory, its teams computer rankings, a critical component of the NCAA tournament selection process.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...09175.post

Okay. That's better. And it would be even better if the A-10 moved its tournament to the Verizon Center in DC.

(03-14-2014 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 03:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I was just guessing earlier in this thread, but it looks like ACC/A-10 doubleheaders at a neutral site (Barclays) is one of the components to a deal to give the ACC the 2017 tournament dates:

Quote:In exchange for the A-10 exiting Barclays a year earlier, the ACC has offered to play a series of regular-season doubleheaders against the A-10 in the facility. Neutral-site games against ACC teams would be a coup for the A-10, elevating its visibility and, in theory, its teams computer rankings, a critical component of the NCAA tournament selection process.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...09175.post

Okay. That's better. And it would be even better if the A-10 moved its tournament to the Verizon Center in DC.

Here's another guess:

How about a long-term rotation of the ACC and A-10 at Barclays? Say, a 12-year deal, six years for each league (or 7 for one and 5 for the other, whatever). A 12-year deal starting in 2017 would lock up Barclays through 2028 (and keep the Big Ten out) while also giving both the ACC and A-10 the flexibility to rotate through other sites.

(03-14-2014 03:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 03:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I was just guessing earlier in this thread, but it looks like ACC/A-10 doubleheaders at a neutral site (Barclays) is one of the components to a deal to give the ACC the 2017 tournament dates:

Quote:In exchange for the A-10 exiting Barclays a year earlier, the ACC has offered to play a series of regular-season doubleheaders against the A-10 in the facility. Neutral-site games against ACC teams would be a coup for the A-10, elevating its visibility and, in theory, its teams computer rankings, a critical component of the NCAA tournament selection process.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...09175.post

Okay. That's better. And it would be even better if the A-10 moved its tournament to the Verizon Center in DC.

Here's another guess:

How about a long-term rotation of the ACC and A-10 at Barclays? Say, a 12-year deal, six years for each league (or 7 for one and 5 for the other, whatever). A 12-year deal starting in 2017 would lock up Barclays through 2028 (and keep the Big Ten out) while also giving both the ACC and A-10 the flexibility to rotate through other sites.

Possibly....but my guess is the ACC will want it to end two years before the MSG deal with the Big East.

Just want to mention that from everything I've read, Mike K and Roy williams are some of the bigger proponents of moving to New York so it's not just the northern schools. They want the occasional exposure in the NYC area.

(03-14-2014 05:55 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  Just want to mention that from everything I've read, Mike K and Roy williams are some of the bigger proponents of moving to New York so it's not just the northern schools. They want the occasional exposure in the NYC area.

Key word being "occasional". There is no way that the Carolina Four will ever let that event stay for too long outside of Greensboro.

Why do you despise the idea? Just curious.
[/quote]

Just a traditionalist. The old ACC does not exist anymore to me. I remember watching Bias, Jordan, Spudd, Mugsey, etc with old Lenny Wirtz refing when I was in college. I remember going to my first Tournament was my last year in college. I actually went to the last ACC tournament of 9 teams before VA Tech and Miami joined. It was a great 3 day weekend. Now with it being 5 days, I don't know if I want to spend 5 days that way. Guess I am getting to be long in the tooth.


I was always support the ACC, I just don't know if I could ever route for Pitt, BC, Syracuse just because they are in the ACC. They will be great for the conference like Louisville, VT and Miami but they just don't fit my view of what they ACC is supposed to be.


I understand why the New ACC is doing moves like this but the ACCT just does not have that special feel anymore. :( But as Dylan stated "The times, they are a changing". I guess I just became one of those Old Timers longing for the old days.
[/quote]

Welcome to the club!!!

(03-14-2014 07:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:21 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

Why do you despise the idea? Just curious.

Just a traditionalist. The old ACC does not exist anymore to me. I remember watching Bias, Jordan, Spudd, Mugsey, etc with old Lenny Wirtz refing when I was in college. I remember going to my first Tournament was my last year in college. I actually went to the last ACC tournament of 9 teams before VA Tech and Miami joined. It was a great 3 day weekend. Now with it being 5 days, I don't know if I want to spend 5 days that way. Guess I am getting to be long in the tooth.


I was always support the ACC, I just don't know if I could ever route for Pitt, BC, Syracuse just because they are in the ACC. They will be great for the conference like Louisville, VT and Miami but they just don't fit my view of what they ACC is supposed to be.


I understand why the New ACC is doing moves like this but the ACCT just does not have that special feel anymore. :( But as Dylan stated "The times, they are a changing". I guess I just became one of those Old Timers longing for the old days.
[/quote]

Welcome to the club!!!
[/quote]

One proxy for conference power is how much the conference has had to change its core culture in order to adapt to realignment.

E.G., the SEC and PAC have had to change virtually nothing about their culture, such that even with new members they still have their same historical feel. In contrast the ACC has had to alter itself radically from what it was 20 and more years ago.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-14-2014 10:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 07:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:21 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

Why do you despise the idea? Just curious.

Just a traditionalist. The old ACC does not exist anymore to me. I remember watching Bias, Jordan, Spudd, Mugsey, etc with old Lenny Wirtz refing when I was in college. I remember going to my first Tournament was my last year in college. I actually went to the last ACC tournament of 9 teams before VA Tech and Miami joined. It was a great 3 day weekend. Now with it being 5 days, I don't know if I want to spend 5 days that way. Guess I am getting to be long in the tooth.


I was always support the ACC, I just don't know if I could ever route for Pitt, BC, Syracuse just because they are in the ACC. They will be great for the conference like Louisville, VT and Miami but they just don't fit my view of what they ACC is supposed to be.


I understand why the New ACC is doing moves like this but the ACCT just does not have that special feel anymore. :( But as Dylan stated "The times, they are a changing". I guess I just became one of those Old Timers longing for the old days.

Welcome to the club!!!
[/quote]

One proxy for conference power is how much the conference has had to change its core culture in order to adapt to realignment.

E.G., the SEC and PAC have had to change virtually nothing about their culture, such that even with new members they still have their same historical feel. In contrast the ACC has had to alter itself radically from what it was 20 and more years ago.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App
[/quote]

I remember the old PAC. 8. It was truly a "Pacific Coast Conference".

Now, it has members from the Arizona desert and the mountains of Utah and Colorado.

I guess the "historic feel" is different for each person and is selective.

Even the SEC has members from Missouri and Texas.

It "feels" different to me than the SEc of old.

(03-14-2014 10:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  I remember the old PAC. 8. It was truly a "Pacific Coast Conference".

Now, it has members from the Arizona desert and the mountains of Utah and Colorado.

I guess the "historic feel" is different for each person and is selective.

Even the SEC has members from Missouri and Texas.

It "feels" different to me than the SEc of old.

I remember the Pac 8 as well. The AZ schools assimilated seemlessly. Utah and Colorado not nearly so much but they are just two schools out of twelve so have had little impact on the core culture.

I grew up in the heart of ACC territory in the 70s, and the conference is barely recognizable now. A far greater change. Newbies make up a much larger percentage of the conference, and with the exception of VT are also far from its mid-Atlantic core geography and hence share little of the core cultural values. That core has been swamped and so the ACC is now this sprawling polyglot without a defining cultural center of gravity other than a mutual understanding that for now at least, we're all better off here. It's become the new Big East.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

if anything colorado is assimilating perfectly with the pac. i can't speak for utah though.

other than the acc the only other conference that will struggle to assimilate will be the b10 with RU/UMD

(03-14-2014 10:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  if anything colorado is assimilating perfectly with the pac. i can't speak for utah though.

other than the acc the only other conference that will struggle to assimilate will be the b10 with RU/UMD

I don't think the ACC will have trouble assimilating. As a VT fan we traded a northern arrogance for southern arrogance and we've now merged the two. The "better-than-you" attitude is universal so I think the conference has a lot of common ground to build on. You have the privates and wanna be privates against the publics...football against basketball...northern against southern. The differences are what make a conference. I feel like the assimilation is already complete w/ the bickering over tournament locations.

(03-14-2014 11:41 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 10:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  if anything colorado is assimilating perfectly with the pac. i can't speak for utah though.

other than the acc the only other conference that will struggle to assimilate will be the b10 with RU/UMD

I don't think the ACC will have trouble assimilating. As a VT fan we traded a northern arrogance for southern arrogance and we've now merged the two. The "better-than-you" attitude is universal so I think the conference has a lot of common ground to build on. You have the privates and wanna be privates against the publics...football against basketball...northern against southern. The differences are what make a conference. I feel like the assimilation is already complete w/ the bickering over tournament locations.

Sounds like one big, passionate, mostly happy dysfunctional family

(03-14-2014 11:41 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 10:43 PM)john01992 Wrote:  if anything colorado is assimilating perfectly with the pac. i can't speak for utah though.

other than the acc the only other conference that will struggle to assimilate will be the b10 with RU/UMD

I don't think the ACC will have trouble assimilating. As a VT fan we traded a northern arrogance for southern arrogance and we've now merged the two. The "better-than-you" attitude is universal so I think the conference has a lot of common ground to build on. You have the privates and wanna be privates against the publics...football against basketball...northern against southern. The differences are what make a conference. I feel like the assimilation is already complete w/ the bickering over tournament locations.

Sounds like the old Big East.

(03-14-2014 10:37 PM)TerryD Wrote:  I remember the old PAC. 8. It was truly a "Pacific Coast Conference".

Now, it has members from the Arizona desert and the mountains of Utah and Colorado.

I guess the "historic feel" is different for each person and is selective.

That's definitely selective nostalgia, which I used to have as well.

I used to say that it would be nice if we could have the Pac-8 back, until someone pointed out to me that the Pac-8 era didn't last all that long anyway.

The Pac-10 (1978-2011) was in existence for more than twice as long as the Pac-8 (1964-1978).

(03-14-2014 11:55 AM)john01992 Wrote:  because this is not 1959 anymore. the mentality behind why certain locations should be chosen has long since changed. today it is all about exposure and what locations can raise the hype of the event.

and you are completely wrong on the acc demographics. the majority of acc fans who are willing to attend a basketball tourny now live north of the NC/VA border. greensboro is no longer in the center of the conference demographically.

So BC, Cuse, Pitt and ND fans who are willing to attend a basketball tourney is greater than VT, UVA, Louisville, UNC, Duke, Wake, NCState, Clemson, GT, FSU and Miami? I call horse sh*t on that one.

I think the PAC, B1G, SEC didn't lose much of their traditional feel because they expanded with schools that fit their traditional profile and region.

I can remember when ND partial membership was discussed back in 2004 instead of Boston College. There was one lawyer from Duke who laughed it off because Indiana wasn't adjacent to the Atlantic Coast. I said, well I don't know but that is what ESPN is talking about.

The ACC, IMO with all the changes now feels like the old Metro Conference plan trotted out in the early 90's. The majority of its membership today is new since 1990. Its no longer an ACC with Florida State or a 12 team ACC. Its a merger conference for basketball.

Syracuse
Boston College
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Virginia
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Duke
NC State
North Carolina
Georgia Tech
Clemson
Florida State
Miami Fl.

Proposed Metro Conference swapping out a few names

South Carolina->Clemson
East Carolina->North Carolina
Tulane->Wake Forest
Cincinnati->Georgia Tech
West Virginia->Virginia
Temple->Duke
Rutgers->Notre Dame
Memphis->NC State

In bold are schools that are upgrades athletically over the proposed Metro plan. Overall the ACC isn't that much different than the metro. The surprise is the ACC one of the most stable conferences ended up grafted into a group of former independents over time.

Rutgers (B1G), West Virginia (B12), South Carolina (SEC) found better homes. Temple, Memphis and East Carolina are left behind in the AAC. Southern Miss is left even further behind in CUSA. Its hard to believe they were ever considered for a super conference like the Metro.