How do we get this number down?

If I'm not mistaken, the numbers have been plummeting in recent decades.

I don't think we do. Guns are simply a part of our culture. It is easier to kill someone with a gun so when an assault might be the result of an altercation in countries were guns aren't a part of their culture, here somebody often gets killed.

(06-18-2015 04:11 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I don't think we do. Guns are simply a part of our culture. It is easier to kill someone with a gun so when an assault might be the result of an altercation in countries were guns aren't a part of their culture, here somebody often gets killed.

Agreed. Many in Africa are murdered with machetes or blades.

another misleading chart.

how about all nations? or unwealthy nations? or any weapon used to kill fellow citizens?

also...the chart shows a 3 to just less than 1 ratio. it looks more dramatic the way it is printed.
America has more than a 3 to 1 ratio of gun ownership compared to all those other nations.

So should we just look at overall murder rates then?

Totally lock down the southern border, deport all Illegal Mexicans and some other Central Americans.
Cities vastly expand hiring of police and stop and frisk in risk prone urban areas.


Now the rate is even lower, 2.9 as opposed to 7.0 in 1993.

U.S. Firearm Deaths

In 2010, there were 3.6 gun homicides per 100,000 people, compared with 7.0 in 1993, according to CDC data.
In 2010, CDC data counted 11,078 gun homicide deaths, compared with 18,253 in 1993.5
Men and boys make up the vast majority (84% in 2010) of gun homicide victims. The firearm homicide rate also is more than five times as high for males of all ages (6.2 deaths per 100,000 people) as it is for females (1.1 deaths per 100,000 people).
By age group, 69% of gun homicide victims in 2010 were ages 18 to 40, an age range that was 31% of the population that year. Gun homicide rates also are highest for adults ages 18 to 24 and 25 to 40.
A disproportionate share of gun homicide victims are black (55% in 2010, compared with the 13% black share of the population). Whites were 25% of victims but 65% of the population in 2010. Hispanics were 17% of victims and 16% of the population in 2010.
The firearm suicide rate (6.3 per 100,000 people) is higher than the firearm homicide rate and has come down less sharply. The number of gun suicide deaths (19,392 in 2010) outnumbered gun homicides, as has been true since at least 1981.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/0...c-unaware/

However you can reduce out of wedlock births to poor people, that would help also.
No idea how to prevent gun suicide.

It doesn't seem like having 3 times as many guns should explain having 3 times as many gun deaths. At least, not if you determine that it's the people that are the problem, and not the guns. Do we have 3 times as many crazy people in this country?

(06-18-2015 04:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It doesn't seem like having 3 times as many guns should explain having 3 times as many gun deaths. At least, not if you determine that it's the people that are the problem, and not the guns. Do we have 3 times as many crazy people in this country?

no, we have much more than 3 times the gun ownership. most of those nations have no gun ownership.

if you account for our gun ownership we should have 10 or 20 times the death rate by gun. but we don't.

people kill people, not guns.

(06-18-2015 04:00 PM)Hitch Wrote:  How do we get this number down?

Ask your lib leaders in Md. They've got it all figured out apparently.

(06-18-2015 04:00 PM)Hitch Wrote:  How do we get this number down?

Well, ONE thing we could do is redefine the timeframe... another would be to redefine our peer group. Another way would be to change the left-hand scale. We could verify the number that SOME governments report. We could also eliminate 'justifiable homicide' as a defense in our courts. It's not clear if they are included here or not, but if i were trying to make the number look bad, I'd include them... and if I wanted it to look good, I wouldn't.

I'm being snarky... not towards you or your REAL issue, but towards the constant barrage of supposed facts that people put out that all have dozens of assumptions in them intended to skew the results to make some kind of a point.

By far, handguns are responsible for a MULTIPLE of the homocides that rifles are, so our focus on assault rifles etc is silly. Similarly, CRIMINALS are responsible for far more shootings than otherwise law abiding citizens... so while this shooting in SC is tragic and the guy deserves all of our anger and hatred... if your goal is to reduce the number, as opposed to reducing the 'shock value' or 'type' of homocide (kiling people at a church or at a movie theatre) then BY FAR the solution is to eliminate criminals with guns... robbers, drug dealers, gang members etc etc etc.

By and large, law abiding citizens obey the law which means they don't commit murder. If you criminalize something that isn't currently a crime (like owning a hand gun) then you are merely turning law abiding citizens into criminals... and they don't want to be that so they will comply. You aren't impacting a criminals decision to use a gun... because the 'add on' for using a gun isn't that much.

If perhaps homocide or robbery or menacing or selling drugs was one charge... and the 'add on' for using a gun to do so was an automatic doubling... in other words, murder by hands was 10 years... By knife was 15 and by gun was 20... and 'dealing' was 6 months, but having a gun with you while you did it was 6 years??

Problem is, if you're going to commit murder, do you really care whether the punishment is 20 or 30 years?

Arrest the murderers before they kill.

I doubt any of those countries have even a semblance of the incredibly large gang infrastructure in the United States that accounts for so many of these gun deaths.

The older the population gets the lower the gun crime rate goes. More often than not shootings in my area are when young people get together. They get mad and a gun is handy. Somebody gets shot, sometimes they die.

Please someone please quote the straw man falsehood of 40% of the gun purchases are without background checks. Waiting....!

(06-18-2015 04:32 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 04:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  It doesn't seem like having 3 times as many guns should explain having 3 times as many gun deaths. At least, not if you determine that it's the people that are the problem, and not the guns. Do we have 3 times as many crazy people in this country?

no, we have much more than 3 times the gun ownership. most of those nations have no gun ownership.

if you account for our gun ownership we should have 10 or 20 times the death rate by gun. but we don't.

people kill people, not guns.

What about Switzerland and Canada? They have lots of guns.

I honestly don't care.

Where the gun violence is happening is all that matters, and it isn't around my life.

If you want gun homicides to go down, do the opposite of what they are doing in an area where gun homicides are high. Like Chicago. High gun homicide rate. They have severe gun control laws. So do the opposite. Problem solved.