(07-17-2015 05:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 05:37 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/29565...-expansion

I've seen crazier things but I doubt USF goes w/ UCF (over-saturation).

If the Big 12 did go to Florida, I would add both to get critical mass.

You aren't adding a flagship and you have 3 giants ahead of you in the pecking order (as well as two conferences).

While UCF is not a flagship; they not only have the largest undergrad student body in Florida also the largest in the entire Southeastern US. Plus they are in a somewhat major market which FSU & Florida are not. Adding 1 program in Florida also gives the B12 the opportunity to take another run at BYU for football only, if they so desire.

(07-17-2015 04:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  As a Big XII football fan I am okay with this if the following 2 conditions are met.

1) USF builds an OCS

2) UCF goes back to their original name, Florida Tech

3) Bonus points if UCF coeds are required to do one semester abroad in the state of Kansas.

Florida University of Clinical Kinesiology & Industrial Technology

(07-17-2015 07:47 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  the BIG 12 getting into Florida is a good investment. I doubt USF and UCF go in at the same time. I wouldn't mind seeing UCF, only because I pay attention and cheer for them more than USF. Just curious, which has a more popular fanbase in Florida (not UF or FSU or UM), SF or CF?

The last 2 state wide polls had UF #1, FSU #2, UCF#3. and UM#4. UM is popular in Dade county, not much support outside of Dade. USF was not far behind UM.

20 years from now if UCF and USF were in a major conf, UM will be an afterthought. The Alum base of both schools will be big, and mature by then.

If Texas do turned the Longhorn Network into a Big 12 Network? Than more money could be on the table for all the schools. Which schools?

I will take UCF over USF. Both would over lapped each other in tv market. UCF is in, USF is out.
I would choose Georgia Southern as a travel partner. They can claim the Savannah market. Georgia is also a hotbed for football as well.

East Carolina does have a name brand in football and can draw viewers and fans.

Old Dominion in Norfolk, Virginia could be a travel partner for East Carolina. Both football and basketball can boast the Big 12 some. Plus, they are close to DC and Baltimore to have a reach.

Cincinnati be West Virginia's travel partner. They bring football and basketball to the table, and a tv market.

Memphis brings basketball and tv market to the table. Plus if their football continues to win? It would be a plus.

All these schools are in heavy populated area. I do not mean just their towns, but all the towns close by.

Notable candidates? Northern Illinois, Toledo, Ohio U., North Dakota State.

I just don't think Houston is on any lists for Big 12 expansions unless one of the Texas schools are leaving.

(07-18-2015 09:48 AM)Policiious Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 05:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 05:37 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/29565...-expansion

I've seen crazier things but I doubt USF goes w/ UCF (over-saturation).

If the Big 12 did go to Florida, I would add both to get critical mass.

You aren't adding a flagship and you have 3 giants ahead of you in the pecking order (as well as two conferences).

While UCF is not a flagship; they not only have the largest undergrad student body in Florida also the largest in the entire Southeastern US. Plus they are in a somewhat major market which FSU & Florida are not. Adding 1 program in Florida also gives the B12 the opportunity to take another run at BYU for football only, if they so desire.

I do not think Big 12 wants to have an uneven number for all sports when the football is at even. Who would you add for #12 all sports besides football? Wichita State? Creighton? Evansville? Denver? Omaha? (that would get under Nebraska's Husks.), Wisconsin-Milwaukee? VCU? George Mason? Hofstra?

(07-18-2015 09:23 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 09:10 AM)omniorange Wrote:  UCF has had a solid 5 year run, culminating with a Top 10 season and a Fiesta Bowl win over Baylor two years ago.

Miami is starting to slip, but if they have a season anywhere near UCF's 2013 season soon, they will jump back quickly. The question is, can Golden lead them back to a high level of football while maintaining some semblance of academic and program integrity?

Cheers,
Neil

Miami is STARTING to slip?

Yes. For Kings, going a stretches where they aren't at the top on a consistent basis happens.

From 1980 through 2005, they were Top 20 for all but two years.

Since then (10 years now) they have only been in the Top 20 once back in 2009. But during that period there has only been two losing seasons. It's not as though they have dropped off the radar entirely. And they are just now coming out from under the 2011 sanctions.

Again, whether Golden is the right man to bring them all the way back is in question. But what is not in question is that if Miami has a year where they wind up in a NYD's Bowl game with a strong 11-1, 12-1 type record, the mediocre period from 2006-2014/5 or so will be entirely forgotten.

That's how it works for football Kings, even the least of them.

Cheers,
Neil

(07-17-2015 11:38 PM)nosurf2day Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 07:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 06:14 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 04:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  As a Big XII football fan I am okay with this if the following 2 conditions are met.

1) USF builds an OCS

2) UCF goes back to their original name, Florida Tech

3) Bonus points if UCF coeds are required to do one semester abroad in the state of Kansas.

IDK why some of you guys are so hung up on the name thing. So here's a compromise, we rename UCF to the South Hampton Institute of Technology and our mascot will be the sandwiches.

I'm not defending it, but the Big XII doesn't want a "commuter" school in the conference, let alone two. It's why they dropped the ball on Louisville and why cinci and Memphis will never get in. Being labeled as the U_F twins is redundant from a marketing standpoint. Perception wise, the casual Midwest football fan would have a tough time differentiating between the two schools. Of the two names, UCF is the "weaker" (central Michigan, central Arkansas) one while Florida Tech is easily identifiable. My wife loves college football, mention U_F and she will give you a blank stare, mention Florida Tech and at least she would identify what state your in and that your a "name brand." Got a friend who is the same way, he will watch B1G and BIg XII evening network game and probably couldn't name more than a few G5's, but I promise he could identify with Florida Tech as it fits the establishment he identifies with.

I can't speak for USF but I do know that UCF is not a commuter school in any fashion. Maybe years ago, UCF has expanded and built up the on campus infrastructure in the past 10 years so much that there are more on campus dorms today than both UF and FSU.

(07-17-2015 07:47 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  the BIG 12 getting into Florida is a good investment. I doubt USF and UCF go in at the same time. I wouldn't mind seeing UCF, only because I pay attention and cheer for them more than USF. Just curious, which has a more popular fanbase in Florida (not UF or FSU or UM), SF or CF?

Most Popular schools in Florida. UCF is tied with UM at #3.

Even if true (and you can't tell that from attendance as Miami draws better), Miami generates vastly more interest outside of Florida.

(07-18-2015 11:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 11:38 PM)nosurf2day Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 07:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 06:14 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 04:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  As a Big XII football fan I am okay with this if the following 2 conditions are met.

1) USF builds an OCS

2) UCF goes back to their original name, Florida Tech

3) Bonus points if UCF coeds are required to do one semester abroad in the state of Kansas.

IDK why some of you guys are so hung up on the name thing. So here's a compromise, we rename UCF to the South Hampton Institute of Technology and our mascot will be the sandwiches.

I'm not defending it, but the Big XII doesn't want a "commuter" school in the conference, let alone two. It's why they dropped the ball on Louisville and why cinci and Memphis will never get in. Being labeled as the U_F twins is redundant from a marketing standpoint. Perception wise, the casual Midwest football fan would have a tough time differentiating between the two schools. Of the two names, UCF is the "weaker" (central Michigan, central Arkansas) one while Florida Tech is easily identifiable. My wife loves college football, mention U_F and she will give you a blank stare, mention Florida Tech and at least she would identify what state your in and that your a "name brand." Got a friend who is the same way, he will watch B1G and BIg XII evening network game and probably couldn't name more than a few G5's, but I promise he could identify with Florida Tech as it fits the establishment he identifies with.

I can't speak for USF but I do know that UCF is not a commuter school in any fashion. Maybe years ago, UCF has expanded and built up the on campus infrastructure in the past 10 years so much that there are more on campus dorms today than both UF and FSU.

(07-17-2015 07:47 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  the BIG 12 getting into Florida is a good investment. I doubt USF and UCF go in at the same time. I wouldn't mind seeing UCF, only because I pay attention and cheer for them more than USF. Just curious, which has a more popular fanbase in Florida (not UF or FSU or UM), SF or CF?

Most Popular schools in Florida. UCF is tied with UM at #3.

Even if true (and you can't tell that from attendance as Miami draws better), Miami generates vastly more interest outside of Florida.

I have seen many empty seats, and Miami cooked their books for sure. Their football games on tv shows all those empty space with huge spaces in spots.

(07-18-2015 03:45 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I've thought for a long time that if the Big 12 adds two, they will either be Cincinnati and BYU (football only), or USF and UCF. There are pros and cons to either combination, but I don't see a mix because I don't think the conference will want to add a second island. It will either want to give WVU a travel partner (which is accomplished by the first combo), or bring in two schools that can be travel partners for each other (which is accomplished by the second combo).

I'm inclined to agree with you. I wouldn't put either of those combos at the top of my list, but there are good reasons the Big 12 might make those decisions.

(07-18-2015 07:45 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Yeah...but USF's awful in football, awful in basketball, and plays in a pro stadium off campus. Other than all that, I guess they're a good fit. Jesus, I feel dirty for saying it but I'd almost rather have UConn than USF. At least UConn's good at something.

USF still has better attendance than anyone outside the P5 except for BYU and ECU.

(07-18-2015 11:04 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 11:38 PM)nosurf2day Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 07:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 06:14 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 04:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  As a Big XII football fan I am okay with this if the following 2 conditions are met.

1) USF builds an OCS

2) UCF goes back to their original name, Florida Tech

3) Bonus points if UCF coeds are required to do one semester abroad in the state of Kansas.

IDK why some of you guys are so hung up on the name thing. So here's a compromise, we rename UCF to the South Hampton Institute of Technology and our mascot will be the sandwiches.

I'm not defending it, but the Big XII doesn't want a "commuter" school in the conference, let alone two. It's why they dropped the ball on Louisville and why cinci and Memphis will never get in. Being labeled as the U_F twins is redundant from a marketing standpoint. Perception wise, the casual Midwest football fan would have a tough time differentiating between the two schools. Of the two names, UCF is the "weaker" (central Michigan, central Arkansas) one while Florida Tech is easily identifiable. My wife loves college football, mention U_F and she will give you a blank stare, mention Florida Tech and at least she would identify what state your in and that your a "name brand." Got a friend who is the same way, he will watch B1G and BIg XII evening network game and probably couldn't name more than a few G5's, but I promise he could identify with Florida Tech as it fits the establishment he identifies with.

I can't speak for USF but I do know that UCF is not a commuter school in any fashion. Maybe years ago, UCF has expanded and built up the on campus infrastructure in the past 10 years so much that there are more on campus dorms today than both UF and FSU.

(07-17-2015 07:47 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  the BIG 12 getting into Florida is a good investment. I doubt USF and UCF go in at the same time. I wouldn't mind seeing UCF, only because I pay attention and cheer for them more than USF. Just curious, which has a more popular fanbase in Florida (not UF or FSU or UM), SF or CF?

Most Popular schools in Florida. UCF is tied with UM at #3.

Even if true (and you can't tell that from attendance as Miami draws better), Miami generates vastly more interest outside of Florida.

It is true. http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/....html#more
While you are correct that Miami has more national cache, my response would be that UCF or USF are set up for the same. No one knew about FSU prior to Bowden and no one knew of Miami before Schnellenberger. At one time they were considered new money, before becoming part of the status quo. Although the poll says we are tied for third, I'd venture to say we've surpassed them based on the methodology. The poll was taken via landline and older fans tended to be more in favor of Miami. Considering our average age of fans and alumni I'd say that more UCF fans are younger and therefore don't have landlines. Purely speculative though.

(07-18-2015 09:51 AM)Policiious Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 04:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  As a Big XII football fan I am okay with this if the following 2 conditions are met.

1) USF builds an OCS

2) UCF goes back to their original name, Florida Tech

3) Bonus points if UCF coeds are required to do one semester abroad in the state of Kansas.

Florida University of Clinical Kinesiology & Industrial Technology

This one for the win.

(07-18-2015 10:15 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 09:23 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 09:10 AM)omniorange Wrote:  UCF has had a solid 5 year run, culminating with a Top 10 season and a Fiesta Bowl win over Baylor two years ago.

Miami is starting to slip, but if they have a season anywhere near UCF's 2013 season soon, they will jump back quickly. The question is, can Golden lead them back to a high level of football while maintaining some semblance of academic and program integrity?

Cheers,
Neil

Miami is STARTING to slip?

Yes. For Kings, going a stretches where they aren't at the top on a consistent basis happens.

From 1980 through 2005, they were Top 20 for all but two years.

Since then (10 years now) they have only been in the Top 20 once back in 2009. But during that period there has only been two losing seasons. It's not as though they have dropped off the radar entirely. And they are just now coming out from under the 2011 sanctions.

Again, whether Golden is the right man to bring them all the way back is in question. But what is not in question is that if Miami has a year where they wind up in a NYD's Bowl game with a strong 11-1, 12-1 type record, the mediocre period from 2006-2014/5 or so will be entirely forgotten.

That's how it works for football Kings, even the least of them.

Cheers,
Neil

Right. Notre Dame went through nearly 20 years of mediocrity before their unbeaten season.

(07-18-2015 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 07:45 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  Yeah...but USF's awful in football, awful in basketball, and plays in a pro stadium off campus. Other than all that, I guess they're a good fit. Jesus, I feel dirty for saying it but I'd almost rather have UConn than USF. At least UConn's good at something.

USF still has better attendance than anyone outside the P5 except for BYU and ECU.

This is in fact categorically wrong.

If the Big 12 has any dreams of a network, they will not add both UCF and USF. The way conference networks are structured, they will gain the same amount of money by adding only one. See the Big10 and SEC networks for examples.

Cindy, Memphis, UCF/USF, and ?ECU? would add 50 million people to the current 37 million footprint of the Big12. Media markets don't mean crap for conference networks unless they extend into another state. It is all about that state population because they get to tack on a fee to everyone in that state's cable regardless of viewership.

(07-17-2015 08:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 06:12 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 05:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 05:37 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  http://www.wvillustrated.com/story/29565...-expansion

I've seen crazier things but I doubt USF goes w/ UCF (over-saturation).

If the Big 12 did go to Florida, I would add both to get critical mass.

You aren't adding a flagship and you have 2 giants ahead of you in the pecking order (as well as two conferences).

FIFY

When FSU and Florida catch up to Miami in national championships, then you can start talking about the decline of Miami.

Since 1992, FSU and UF have 6 national titles. UM has one. Is 23 years a large enough sample? Their current decade of mediocrity under 3 different head coaches, numerous ADs and the loss of their "local" home stadium doesn't suffice as a "decline"?

Heck, UM has been begging to play in a proposed SOCCER STADIUM for the last year and had their hopes somewhat dashed yesterday.

(07-18-2015 08:14 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  If I'm adding four I'd take the top 2 Florida schools I can get from this list:
1.Florida State
2.Central Florida
3. Florida Atlantic
If I'm adding two, take one Florida school. But if it's me, I'm adding four or even six.

UCF = USF

FAU = FIU

And I assure you FSU would never join a conference with any of those 4. So if you want the "top 2 Florida schools" from your list, then your only option is UCF and FAU. But mind you, your list really doesn't make much sense.

(07-17-2015 04:49 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 04:37 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(07-17-2015 04:26 PM)Shox Wrote:  As a Big XII football fan I am okay with this if the following 2 conditions are met.

1) USF builds an OCS

2) UCF goes back to their original name, Florida Tech

3) Bonus points if UCF coeds are required to do one semester abroad in the state of Kansas.

Don't think your #2 is possible anymore since a private school in FL now has it.

The private school is officially Florida Institute of Technology, or FIT. FIT and Florida Tech coexisted for a time until UCF changed its name.

http://www.floridatechsports.com/

That is FIT's athletic's page. FIT is Florida Tech. Florida Tech is FIT.

(07-18-2015 11:50 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 08:14 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  If I'm adding four I'd take the top 2 Florida schools I can get from this list:
1.Florida State
2.Central Florida
3. Florida Atlantic
If I'm adding two, take one Florida school. But if it's me, I'm adding four or even six.

UCF = USF

FAU = FIU

And I assure you FSU would never join a conference with any of those 4. So if you want the "top 2 Florida schools" from your list, then your only option is UCF and FAU. But mind you, your list really doesn't make much sense.

I know, probably why I'm not running any conferences...

One Florida School really is enough.
I would contend that UCF>USF.
Maybe it's bias just cause I know more UCF folks. But the BCS win was a big feather IMO.

Real question is: would Big12 talking with (or about) UCF/USF be enough to entice FSU?
I doubt it, because USF was P6 for years without taking any luster off FSU. UCF was for a year, too.
But can any of Miami's fall be attributed to the "rise" of USF in the last 10 years?

(07-18-2015 12:03 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 11:50 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(07-18-2015 08:14 AM)owl at the moon Wrote:  If I'm adding four I'd take the top 2 Florida schools I can get from this list:
1.Florida State
2.Central Florida
3. Florida Atlantic
If I'm adding two, take one Florida school. But if it's me, I'm adding four or even six.

UCF = USF

FAU = FIU

And I assure you FSU would never join a conference with any of those 4. So if you want the "top 2 Florida schools" from your list, then your only option is UCF and FAU. But mind you, your list really doesn't make much sense.

I know, probably why I'm not running any conferences...

One Florida School really is enough.
I would contend that UCF>USF.
Maybe it's bias just cause I know more UCF folks. But the BCS win was a big feather IMO.

Real question is: would Big12 talking with (or about) UCF/USF be enough to entice FSU?
I doubt it, because USF was P6 for years without taking any luster off FSU. UCF was for a year, too.
But can any of Miami's fall be attributed to the "rise" of USF in the last 10 years?

I'd say Miami's fall is more attributed to the growth of all the state schools in Florida not just specifically USF. It also had been hampered by scandals and a lot of other big schools coming into it's backyard and plucking out who they want. After a series of less than expected coaching performances they've struggled to put fans in the seats. All of those things, but let's not forget Miami is a small and very expensive private school, hard to grow a fanbase being so academically elite and expensive.