(03-14-2016 12:12 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:35 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 09:28 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The Big East is paid like a power conference (without football). They are treated by the P5 like a power conference in scheduling agreements. They pump resources into basketball like a power conference. They have high attendance like a power conference.

Dude, You're on FS1.

The NBE went with money over exposure, while the AAC went with exposure over money.

The NBE's relevance is tied to 1 sport on a fledgling channel. It's a sport that hasn't yielded any top finishes.

Good luck with that.

Dude, we were also on major networks like 15 times this year (Fox and CBS), more than any other conference and our ratings on FS1 are improving yearly so we are getting the money AND the exposure.

C'mon man no one watches Fox Sports 1, especially for basketball.

(03-14-2016 01:22 PM)upstater1 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 09:28 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The Big East is paid like a power conference (without football). They are treated by the P5 like a power conference in scheduling agreements. They pump resources into basketball like a power conference. They have high attendance like a power conference.

$4m a year isn't being paid like a power conference.

The old BE used to get a lot more than that.

The old BE included football, so it's not a fair comparison. The amount paid per school under to the NBE is equivalent to Notre Dame's share of ACC TV money, which is around $4 million.

(03-14-2016 12:12 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:35 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 09:28 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The Big East is paid like a power conference (without football). They are treated by the P5 like a power conference in scheduling agreements. They pump resources into basketball like a power conference. They have high attendance like a power conference.

Dude, You're on FS1.

The NBE went with money over exposure, while the AAC went with exposure over money.

The NBE's relevance is tied to 1 sport on a fledgling channel. It's a sport that hasn't yielded any top finishes.

Good luck with that.

Dude, we were also on major networks like 15 times this year (Fox and CBS), more than any other conference and our ratings on FS1 are improving yearly so we are getting the money AND the exposure.

Syracuse has only signed home and home's with Georgetown, Nova and SJU...that is respect for our old rivals as well as playing games for our fans in DC, Philly and NYC. So far we haven't signed a home and home with an AAC team. I heard UConn is all but a done deal (with a nice twist). We did a home and home with Memphis in the past. I would have no issues signing a Home and Home with the better teams in either conference. I give the current edge to the nBE over the AAC. The nBE has better teams at the top at this time. Like others Hoops for me goes 8/9 leagues deep as power conferences...the last few leagues of the Power Group are generally weaker in attendance, name brand and lower half of their league strength.

(03-15-2016 09:57 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:12 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:35 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 09:28 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The Big East is paid like a power conference (without football). They are treated by the P5 like a power conference in scheduling agreements. They pump resources into basketball like a power conference. They have high attendance like a power conference.

Dude, You're on FS1.

The NBE went with money over exposure, while the AAC went with exposure over money.

The NBE's relevance is tied to 1 sport on a fledgling channel. It's a sport that hasn't yielded any top finishes.

Good luck with that.

Dude, we were also on major networks like 15 times this year (Fox and CBS), more than any other conference and our ratings on FS1 are improving yearly so we are getting the money AND the exposure.

Syracuse has only signed home and home's with Georgetown, Nova and SJU...that is respect for our old rivals as well as playing games for our fans in DC, Philly and NYC. So far we haven't signed a home and home with an AAC team. I heard UConn is all but a done deal (with a nice twist). We did a home and home with Memphis in the past. I would have no issues signing a Home and Home with the better teams in either conference. I give the current edge to the nBE over the AAC. The nBE has better teams at the top at this time. Like others Hoops for me goes 8/9 leagues deep as power conferences...the last few leagues of the Power Group are generally weaker in attendance, name brand and lower half of their league strength.

1-1 and 1 more at the mecca?

(03-14-2016 01:22 PM)upstater1 Wrote:  $4m a year isn't being paid like a power conference.

The old BE used to get a lot more than that.

Used to get $2M for basketball, $1.7 for football per school. St Johns was getting $2M, UConn was getting $3.7M.

(03-15-2016 10:06 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 09:57 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:12 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:35 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 09:28 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  The Big East is paid like a power conference (without football). They are treated by the P5 like a power conference in scheduling agreements. They pump resources into basketball like a power conference. They have high attendance like a power conference.

Dude, You're on FS1.

The NBE went with money over exposure, while the AAC went with exposure over money.

The NBE's relevance is tied to 1 sport on a fledgling channel. It's a sport that hasn't yielded any top finishes.

Good luck with that.

Dude, we were also on major networks like 15 times this year (Fox and CBS), more than any other conference and our ratings on FS1 are improving yearly so we are getting the money AND the exposure.

Syracuse has only signed home and home's with Georgetown, Nova and SJU...that is respect for our old rivals as well as playing games for our fans in DC, Philly and NYC. So far we haven't signed a home and home with an AAC team. I heard UConn is all but a done deal (with a nice twist). We did a home and home with Memphis in the past. I would have no issues signing a Home and Home with the better teams in either conference. I give the current edge to the nBE over the AAC. The nBE has better teams at the top at this time. Like others Hoops for me goes 8/9 leagues deep as power conferences...the last few leagues of the Power Group are generally weaker in attendance, name brand and lower half of their league strength.

1-1 and 1 more at the mecca?

Hank...please enable your Private Message capability in your account...Thanks

(03-14-2016 09:47 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 01:02 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:33 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:41 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  Nobody calls UConn a mid major regardless of what conference we're in so at the end of the day, I don't care.

Agreed. Anyone that calls programs with the history and who puts resources into basketball like a UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis or hell even a Gonzaga is an idiot.

The mid-major label has been abused over the years but it really has gotten bastardized of late. Apparently in the past two years UConn and Cincinnati are mid-majors but TCU and Rutgers a major basketball programs? GTFOH!

To me there are not mid-major conferences, only mid-major teams. Some conferences have no mid-major teams in them, some are completely comprised of them. The Big East, American, MWC and A-10 all have some major basketball programs in them.

Here's a good example of what's considered major based on the way theScore app divides up the conferences for basketball:
Major: AAC, A10, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Big East, Pac-12, SEC
Notably the same as the list in my previous post. Anyone who says the AAC or Big East aren't major basketball conferences just has an ax to grind for whatever reason.

If the AAC is considered a Major conference in basketball already & was arguably just as good as the ACC was in football last year then at least performance wise it can be inferred that the AAC is at the very least trending toward 'Power' status. In fact, the AAC really isn't that far off (from a performance standpoint) in either major sport (or even baseball or WBB for that matter) and I expect that it will largely maintain that upward trajectory. Aresco aptly labeled the AAC as the 'challenger league' and the 'league of opportunity.'

It is commonly acknowledged that the AAC is a grossly undervalued commodity right now due in large part to the timing of when the last contract was up as well as the concerns over future deflections. If however, the Big 12 decides to remain pat for the longterm because of their ability to play in a championship game then maybe this league can gain some financial traction.

I have no ill will towards the Big East and respect their business acumen and their basketball pedigree. I don't doubt their status as a major basketball league but just don't understand why the hate still runs back and forth so much as the leagues split apart years ago now. My only argument is that the the AAC really isn't that far behind the ACC in football and is about on par with the SEC in basketball. Accordingly, the AAC is much closer to the P5 (in terms of athletic performance) than the G4. Moreover, when evaluating the totality of the circumstances (ratings, attendance, marketability/ branding, facilities, investment, performance, etc.) the AAC as configured right now deserves a substantial pay upgrade.

I think from the Big East basketball school's perspective the AAC is the literal conference of Big East football. The very thing that destroyed the greatest basketball league of all time. The ill will comes from years of being forced to follow footballs lead.

The AAC members were sold on being in a conference with the basketball schools. They dipped and I think that's where the "hatred" comes from. I empathize with Memphis fans in particular. They wanted to be in the BE for YEARS and when they finally got in everyone left.

The reality of the situation is that eventually UCONN/CINCY will be out of the AAC. At that point, I think you will see a lot of the "hatred" evaporate.

(03-15-2016 10:14 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 10:06 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 09:57 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:12 PM)Jet915 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:35 AM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  Dude, You're on FS1.

The NBE went with money over exposure, while the AAC went with exposure over money.

The NBE's relevance is tied to 1 sport on a fledgling channel. It's a sport that hasn't yielded any top finishes.

Good luck with that.

Dude, we were also on major networks like 15 times this year (Fox and CBS), more than any other conference and our ratings on FS1 are improving yearly so we are getting the money AND the exposure.

Syracuse has only signed home and home's with Georgetown, Nova and SJU...that is respect for our old rivals as well as playing games for our fans in DC, Philly and NYC. So far we haven't signed a home and home with an AAC team. I heard UConn is all but a done deal (with a nice twist). We did a home and home with Memphis in the past. I would have no issues signing a Home and Home with the better teams in either conference. I give the current edge to the nBE over the AAC. The nBE has better teams at the top at this time. Like others Hoops for me goes 8/9 leagues deep as power conferences...the last few leagues of the Power Group are generally weaker in attendance, name brand and lower half of their league strength.

1-1 and 1 more at the mecca?

Hank...please enable your Private Message capability in your account...Thanks

Come on Mark, make this public :). Is it a conference game? Please tell me it'll be a conference game!

I'd also sign up for 1-1-MSG, or all at MSG, in a heartbeat. Split the building in half, let each school sell half the tickets (ala Red River).

uconnwhaler...enable your private messaging too...

It is under "Edit Options"

You are missing out on the world of private messaging here...LOL

(03-15-2016 10:23 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  uconnwhaler...enable your private messaging too...

It is under "Edit Options"

You are missing out on the world of private messaging here...LOL

I think I did it.

(03-15-2016 10:16 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  It is commonly acknowledged that the AAC is a grossly undervalued commodity right now due in large part to the timing of when the last contract was up as well as the concerns over future deflections.

WEll, I don't acknowledge it. I believe that the old Big EAst, from MArinatto to Paul Tagliabue to Aresco, overvalued what networks would pay for a football conference that don't pack 50,000 in the stands, and without an anchor school or schools that are closer to 100,000. They/we were wrong, and the AAC inherited the results.

I think that if the AAC went to market today, the results wouldn't be much different. I know that AAC fans disagree fervently with this, but I was right last time, so I assume I'm right again.

Quote:I think from the Big East basketball school's perspective the AAC is the literal conference of Big East football. The very thing that destroyed the greatest basketball league of all time. The ill will comes from years of being forced to follow footballs lead.

This makes sense, but doesn't seem to reflect the pattern of what's happening. Big East fans who snipe aren't targeting UConn or Cincy fans, much less Pitt and West Virginia and Louisville fans. And half of the USF fans are Quo, who spends more time as a Georgetown fan. (Everyone likes piling on Rutgers, of course.) Most of the sniping is between Big East C7 fans and the fans of "New Big East" schools.

I think it's because habits are hard to break, and we argued constantly from 2011 when the invites went out until 2013 when the split was done, and some of us havent' stopped. For about 2 years, we were told to sit down and shut up while the incoming football programs "drove the bus." Some of us haven't gotten over that, even as the results came in, and the bus drove over the incoming AAC football-first schools.

(03-15-2016 10:42 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 10:16 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  It is commonly acknowledged that the AAC is a grossly undervalued commodity right now due in large part to the timing of when the last contract was up as well as the concerns over future deflections.

WEll, I don't acknowledge it. I believe that the old Big EAst, from MArinatto to Paul Tagliabue to Aresco, overvalued what networks would pay for a football conference that don't pack 50,000 in the stands, and without an anchor school or schools that are closer to 100,000. They/we were wrong, and the AAC inherited the results.

I think that if the AAC went to market today, the results wouldn't be much different. I know that AAC fans disagree fervently with this, but I was right last time, so I assume I'm right again.

Quote:I think from the Big East basketball school's perspective the AAC is the literal conference of Big East football. The very thing that destroyed the greatest basketball league of all time. The ill will comes from years of being forced to follow footballs lead.

This makes sense, but doesn't seem to reflect the pattern of what's happening. Big East fans who snipe aren't targeting UConn or Cincy fans, much less Pitt and West Virginia and Louisville fans. And half of the USF fans are Quo, who spends more time as a Georgetown fan. (Everyone likes piling on Rutgers, of course.) Most of the sniping is between Big East C7 fans and the fans of "New Big East" schools.

I think it's because habits are hard to break, and we argued constantly from 2011 when the invites went out until 2013 when the split was done, and some of us havent' stopped. For about 2 years, we were told to sit down and shut up while the incoming football programs "drove the bus." Some of us haven't gotten over that, even as the results came in, and the bus drove over the incoming AAC football-first schools.

Keep in mind that during the last negotiation, 3/4 of the AAC hadn't been regularly on a Neilson metered national television network in nearly a decade. That conference had no track record. They were desperate. And they were unstable. The AAC ratings and on field/court performance have both been well above expectations. The AAC is clearly undervalued, but there were reasons for that.

(03-15-2016 10:16 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 09:47 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 01:02 PM)brista21 Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 12:33 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 10:41 AM)HartfordHusky Wrote:  Nobody calls UConn a mid major regardless of what conference we're in so at the end of the day, I don't care.

Agreed. Anyone that calls programs with the history and who puts resources into basketball like a UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis or hell even a Gonzaga is an idiot.

The mid-major label has been abused over the years but it really has gotten bastardized of late. Apparently in the past two years UConn and Cincinnati are mid-majors but TCU and Rutgers a major basketball programs? GTFOH!

To me there are not mid-major conferences, only mid-major teams. Some conferences have no mid-major teams in them, some are completely comprised of them. The Big East, American, MWC and A-10 all have some major basketball programs in them.

Here's a good example of what's considered major based on the way theScore app divides up the conferences for basketball:
Major: AAC, A10, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Big East, Pac-12, SEC
Notably the same as the list in my previous post. Anyone who says the AAC or Big East aren't major basketball conferences just has an ax to grind for whatever reason.

If the AAC is considered a Major conference in basketball already & was arguably just as good as the ACC was in football last year then at least performance wise it can be inferred that the AAC is at the very least trending toward 'Power' status. In fact, the AAC really isn't that far off (from a performance standpoint) in either major sport (or even baseball or WBB for that matter) and I expect that it will largely maintain that upward trajectory. Aresco aptly labeled the AAC as the 'challenger league' and the 'league of opportunity.'

It is commonly acknowledged that the AAC is a grossly undervalued commodity right now due in large part to the timing of when the last contract was up as well as the concerns over future deflections. If however, the Big 12 decides to remain pat for the longterm because of their ability to play in a championship game then maybe this league can gain some financial traction.

I have no ill will towards the Big East and respect their business acumen and their basketball pedigree. I don't doubt their status as a major basketball league but just don't understand why the hate still runs back and forth so much as the leagues split apart years ago now. My only argument is that the the AAC really isn't that far behind the ACC in football and is about on par with the SEC in basketball. Accordingly, the AAC is much closer to the P5 (in terms of athletic performance) than the G4. Moreover, when evaluating the totality of the circumstances (ratings, attendance, marketability/ branding, facilities, investment, performance, etc.) the AAC as configured right now deserves a substantial pay upgrade.

I think from the Big East basketball school's perspective the AAC is the literal conference of Big East football. The very thing that destroyed the greatest basketball league of all time. The ill will comes from years of being forced to follow footballs lead.

The AAC members were sold on being in a conference with the basketball schools. They dipped and I think that's where the "hatred" comes from. I empathize with Memphis fans in particular. They wanted to be in the BE for YEARS and when they finally got in everyone left.

The reality of the situation is that eventually UCONN/CINCY will be out of the AAC. At that point, I think you will see a lot of the "hatred" evaporate.

As an ECU fan we always wanted in the Big East as well. When the football side materialized in the early 90s ECU was at least as good as VT & wasn't far behind WV. Further, VT basketball wasn't any good either. We played competitive football series with many Big East schools at the time (including Syracuse, Miami & Pitt when they were all really good). Eventually, Louisville (who was essentially our equal in football during C-USA until their last couple years) and UC & USF got in (who were both beneath us in football pedigree at the time) and this augmented our frustration.

The Big East represented a possible circumvention around the ACC saturated state of NC to help catapult our program to the "Big Time." The other D1 ACC schools around us had strong incentives to impede the progress of the only D1 football 1st school in the state. The advent of the BCS was meant to marginalize schools like ECU right at a point in time where we had caught up to our instate ACC rivals (performance wise and basically in fan support as well). Despite all of the obstacles and road blocks, ECU's football program is still on par with the in state ACC programs around us (I'm not sure if that is so much a feather in our cap as it is an indictment on the quality of football in NC). Either way, the exposure and opportunity that the AAC is affording us gives us a decent chance to try and emerge as the premiere football program in NC.

As far as the Big East is concerned. ECU always was the enigma that couldn't overcome the directional school stigma. The major pros were that we consistently had a quality football product and had tremendous fan support. However, it seemed that being the red headed stepchild of the ACC affected perception. It was almost like the Big East didn't want to take a chance on ECU because they were worried that the ACC would hold their collective nose up at the Big East because that's the attitude they had towards ECU. That along with our inability to create any sort of basketball success and the perception about the quality of education has held us back (although ECU has now emerged as a top tier national University in the USNWR).

I understand why the Big East packed up and left. They now don't have to worry about defections and that garnered them the ability to maintain stability & thereby assist them greatly in their last contract negotiations. I also envy the fact that they don't have to look over their shoulder and worry about some other conference poaching valued members. We're all just out here hoping that our respective programs can find success, relevance and prominence. It's always going to be a tough road for ECU but that is what will make it that much sweeter for us if & when it all comes together. One thing's for sure, the region and community here refuses to take no for an answer and steadfastly defies conventional wisdom by forging unprecedented support outside of the p5. Sometimes I wonder why ECU's fan support is so strong (in terms of numbers as well as passion). Despite missing a bowl game for only the 2nd time in the past decade ECU is expanding an already 50k+ capacity stadium. All we can do is block out all the negative noise and criticism, stay focused and keep chopping wood until we make it.

(03-15-2016 11:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The AAC ratings and on field/court performance have both been well above expectations. The AAC is clearly undervalued, but there were reasons for that.

Performance? We've only had two full seasons of basketball and football with our real AAC lineup. Last year, basketball was bad, and the jury is still out on this season.

Football? 2014 was terrible, 2015 was good.

As for being 'undervalued', we'll see what the market says (the only thing that counts) in a few years.

Technically, 2015 was the first year with the complete lineup in FB. 2016 will be the first time the AAC has the same membership in back to back years.

(03-15-2016 11:46 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Technically, 2015 was the first year with the complete lineup in FB. 2016 will be the first time the AAC has the same membership in back to back years.

Navy was the only team to come in last year although they did prove to be a big boost.

(03-15-2016 11:28 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 11:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The AAC ratings and on field/court performance have both been well above expectations. The AAC is clearly undervalued, but there were reasons for that.

Performance? We've only had two full seasons of basketball and football with our real AAC lineup. Last year, basketball was bad, and the jury is still out on this season.

Football? 2014 was terrible, 2015 was good.

As for being 'undervalued', we'll see what the market says (the only thing that counts) in a few years.

"Our real AAC lineup". wtf??? So exactly what does that have to do with I just said? The schools that are still here from 2013 somehow no longer count? The UCF BCS win doesn't count? The UConn championship doesn't count? Ive seen you twist in some silly ways to avoid losing a point, but this one is near the top.

If the AAC was properly valued, then CBS-Sports wouldn't be dropping CUSA games for which they paid 7 million dollars to open up space to pay ESPN extra money for the right to air AAC games. If the AAC was properly priced, such move wouldn't make economic sense. It only makes sense in an environment where you are getting something of value for virtually nothing. By the time this contract ends, the AAC will have an established track record and will have been on national TV often enough that is schools are easily recognizable by casual fans. That's a nice product for NBC to use as their first FBS conference to fill up the Saturday air waves around Notre Dame. ESPN isn't going to be able to low ball next time around. My guess is we never get that far. I suspect we will sign an extension yielding a fat raise within the next 24 months.

(03-15-2016 11:49 AM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  

(03-15-2016 11:46 AM)gulfcoastgal Wrote:  Technically, 2015 was the first year with the complete lineup in FB. 2016 will be the first time the AAC has the same membership in back to back years.

Navy was the only team to come in last year although they did prove to be a big boost.

Agree, for some reason, the first year of the AAC gets discounted due to membership changes. If that is the criteria, then the starting point should be 2015 as that was the first year with the complete lineup. Honestly, that would be the best basis for comparison with categories like conference viewership, attendance, records...apples to apples.

A few Big East fans on here are obsessed with the perception of AAC basketball (and some seem to be actively trying to negatively shape it). However, the reality is that the AAC got one less team into the NCAA Tourney. The bottom third of the AAC is admittedly terrible, but these schools are still trying to build for the future. If they can merely become decent and schedule better OOC games, then the top two-thirds of the AAC won't take the RPI hit that we have been taking. At that point, the Big East and AAC would be about equal.

I consider both the Big East and the AAC (and, to some extent, the A-10) to be power conferences in basketball. Sagarin has the Big East as #5, the AAC as #7, and the A-10 as #8. As none of these conferences are in the top four, then I think that all the shaft measuring between one another going on here needs to stop.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sag...onference/

(03-13-2016 06:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-13-2016 06:27 PM)Indiana Bones Wrote:  AAC only has 11 teams (only 10 eligible) but despite a 'down' year would have had over half the league in if not for SMU's ban & UH's flukey loss to Tulane in the AAC tournament. Some of the media calls the AAC a power conference at least in basketball while many brand the AAC as a 'mid major". With football on the rise as well I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to define or place the AAC into a specific category.

RPI rankings, which do not discriminate against SMU, have the AAC as the 8th best conference, same as it has been the last three years.

Nothing "powerful" about that.

8th out of 33 Division 1 conferences isn't anything to be ashamed of either.