(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

Let's see, why would the price go up?

High taxes
Onerous government regulations
Permits, licenses and dues
Affordable Care Act and other employee benefits
Rent
Utilities
Equipment, maintenance and upgrades
Insurance
Shrink and loss
Payment delays
Credit card fees
Professional services

and

Mandated minimum wages.

Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:07 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:01 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then I suggest you ban all fast food establishments who choose to pay their workers $15 an hour.

There is no need to ban things, because conservatives will simply, and happily, let the market decide if a Royal with Cheese is worth $7.95.

"In theory, raising the minimum wage forces business owners to raise the prices of their goods or services, thereby spurring inflation. In actual practice, however, it is not so simple since wages are only one part of the cost of a product or service paid for by consumers. "

Yes, I am aware. Please note my comment didn't say that the Royal with Cheese was $7.95 because of wages.

Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

There are a number of reasons for why items are priced. Some people get kinda lazy and simply price based on Cost of Production + Overhead + fixed built in margin. Others will put more research and price according to their costs plus a number they feel taps into the brand equity of their products. Others will compute pricing based on focus group feedback in conjunction with their research into their brand perceptions. For example, Wendys can probably get away with selling a more "premium" sandwich than McDonald's because the McDonald's brand is the epitome of the "assembly line" fast food approach.

Protesting themselves out of their jobs, and are too dumb to realize it. Sad.

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

Let's see, why would the price go up?

High taxes
Onerous government regulations
Permits, licenses and dues
Affordable Care Act and other employee benefits
Rent
Utilities
Equipment, maintenance and upgrades
Insurance
Shrink and loss
Payment delays
Credit card fees
Professional services

and

Mandated minimum wages.

Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

(05-16-2016 12:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

Let's see, why would the price go up?

High taxes
Onerous government regulations
Permits, licenses and dues
Affordable Care Act and other employee benefits
Rent
Utilities
Equipment, maintenance and upgrades
Insurance
Shrink and loss
Payment delays
Credit card fees
Professional services

and

Mandated minimum wages.

Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

I've already posted the evidence that raising minimum wage will not cause inflation.

You can continue to believe that myth if you want to.

(05-16-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

Let's see, why would the price go up?

High taxes
Onerous government regulations
Permits, licenses and dues
Affordable Care Act and other employee benefits
Rent
Utilities
Equipment, maintenance and upgrades
Insurance
Shrink and loss
Payment delays
Credit card fees
Professional services

and

Mandated minimum wages.

Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

I've already posted the evidence that raising minimum wage will not cause inflation.

You can continue to believe that myth if you want to.

Your link doesnt work.

(05-16-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

Let's see, why would the price go up?

High taxes
Onerous government regulations
Permits, licenses and dues
Affordable Care Act and other employee benefits
Rent
Utilities
Equipment, maintenance and upgrades
Insurance
Shrink and loss
Payment delays
Credit card fees
Professional services

and

Mandated minimum wages.

Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

I've already posted the evidence that raising minimum wage will not cause inflation.

You can continue to believe that myth if you want to.

and I've already posted evidence (in a thread long ago) that annual incremental raises in small percentages is the better method....

by essentially doubling min wage is a death blow whether you like it or not.....

(05-16-2016 12:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:24 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Let's see, why would the price go up?

High taxes
Onerous government regulations
Permits, licenses and dues
Affordable Care Act and other employee benefits
Rent
Utilities
Equipment, maintenance and upgrades
Insurance
Shrink and loss
Payment delays
Credit card fees
Professional services

and

Mandated minimum wages.

Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

I've already posted the evidence that raising minimum wage will not cause inflation.

You can continue to believe that myth if you want to.

Your link doesnt work.

Okay then go ahead and enjoy this one.

https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

(05-16-2016 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

I've already posted the evidence that raising minimum wage will not cause inflation.

You can continue to believe that myth if you want to.

Your link doesnt work.

Okay then go ahead and enjoy this one.

https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

Damn public workers. Don't know how to run a business

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:07 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:01 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Then I suggest you ban all fast food establishments who choose to pay their workers $15 an hour.

There is no need to ban things, because conservatives will simply, and happily, let the market decide if a Royal with Cheese is worth $7.95.

"In theory, raising the minimum wage forces business owners to raise the prices of their goods or services, thereby spurring inflation. In actual practice, however, it is not so simple since wages are only one part of the cost of a product or service paid for by consumers. "

Yes, I am aware. Please note my comment didn't say that the Royal with Cheese was $7.95 because of wages.

Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

To maintain earnings. Yes, wages aren't the only ingredient in price; however, wages are the easiest to cut hence why we see that occur nearly every time a business is in financial distress, etc.

(05-15-2016 10:30 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Um, liberals have been demanding mw go up and conservatives have been saying this would happen and liberals were laughing. When we posted articles from business men saying this in fact was what they would do, liberals laughed.

Now these same liberals are saying those jobs were going away anyway as though their tunnel vision was in fact freakishly prescient.

The bigger point is this shows that liberals and progressives don't care about workers and the workers' jobs.

If they listened to the conservative, the workers would still keep their jobs at a fair wage for the work they were actually doing.

(05-16-2016 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:38 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:30 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Raising the minimum wage alone does not raise inflation to the same level.

you really don't understand cause/effect, do you?

I've already posted the evidence that raising minimum wage will not cause inflation.

You can continue to believe that myth if you want to.

Your link doesnt work.

Okay then go ahead and enjoy this one.

https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

I feel like having fun so....

Site Says - "Myth: Raising the minimum wage will only benefit teens.?"
Site Evidence - Survey of people making the min wage
Problem - This is setting up a straw man. Saying "high school educated" or "Burger flipping" is not saying teens. So IOW the DOL made up something that "someone" said and busted a non-existent myth.

Site Says - "Increasing the minimum wage will cause people to lose their jobs."
Site Evidence - A link to a letter by more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote
Problem - There are a lot more than 600 economist and a lot more than 7 Nobel prize winners so a letter is not evidance. Studies themselves and data should be used.
In a comprehensive, 182-page summary of the research on this subject from the last two decades, economists David Neumark (UC-Irvine) and William Wascher (Federal Reserve Board) determined that 85 percent of the best research points to a loss of jobs following a minimum wage increase.

Site Says:Myth: Small business owners can't afford to pay their workers more, and therefore don't support an increase in the minimum wage.
Site Evidence - a link to a survey that is 404
Problem - There is no way to see the actual survey data

This site is pure propaganda with nearly *no* substance to it. I would say "You can do better, Fit". The problem with that being I don't think you can do any better than Obama propoganda.

http://www.smallbusinessmajority.org/sma...e-Poll.pdf

404

(05-16-2016 01:24 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:07 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  There is no need to ban things, because conservatives will simply, and happily, let the market decide if a Royal with Cheese is worth $7.95.

"In theory, raising the minimum wage forces business owners to raise the prices of their goods or services, thereby spurring inflation. In actual practice, however, it is not so simple since wages are only one part of the cost of a product or service paid for by consumers. "

Yes, I am aware. Please note my comment didn't say that the Royal with Cheese was $7.95 because of wages.

Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

To maintain earnings. Yes, wages aren't the only ingredient in price; however, wages are the easiest to cut hence why we see that occur nearly every time a business is in financial distress, etc.

That's what Fit and his ilk either don't get or won't admit. The only cost a business really has any control over is the labor cost. If they want to stay price competitive in their market and the cost per employee goes up then they will find a way to employ fewer people.

When Obama care rules were being discussed we pleased with them to understand this would nuke full-time work for many of the least skilled workers. And, predictably, companies that had the lowest skilled workers started cutting people's hours to get them below 29 a week.

And it happened in at least 1/5 business back in 2014. And that was cuts to existing workers, it says nothing about new hiring being below 30 hours.

I'm just curious are we recognizing that more than just the burger-place employees may be involved in these prices?
Now admittedly, not all of these are going to be affected by minimum wage increases.

Shippers, Packagers, Growers/Farmers, equipment makers (Someone works the spork making factory right? You don't think they're passing that cost on if they're hit by it?)

(05-16-2016 02:04 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I'm just curious are we recognizing that more than just the burger-place employees may be involved in these prices?
Now admittedly, not all of these are going to be affected by minimum wage increases.

Shippers, Packagers, Growers/Farmers, equipment makers (Someone works the spork making factory right? You don't think they're passing that cost on if they're hit by it?)

hence, cause/effect.....

(05-16-2016 01:44 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 01:24 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  "In theory, raising the minimum wage forces business owners to raise the prices of their goods or services, thereby spurring inflation. In actual practice, however, it is not so simple since wages are only one part of the cost of a product or service paid for by consumers. "

Yes, I am aware. Please note my comment didn't say that the Royal with Cheese was $7.95 because of wages.

Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

To maintain earnings. Yes, wages aren't the only ingredient in price; however, wages are the easiest to cut hence why we see that occur nearly every time a business is in financial distress, etc.

That's what Fit and his ilk either don't get or won't admit. The only cost a business really has any control over is the labor cost. If they want to stay price competitive in their market and the cost per employee goes up then they will find a way to employ fewer people.

When Obama care rules were being discussed we pleased with them to understand this would nuke full-time work for many of the least skilled workers. And, predictably, companies that had the lowest skilled workers started cutting people's hours to get them below 29 a week.

And it happened in at least 1/5 business back in 2014. And that was cuts to existing workers, it says nothing about new hiring being below 30 hours.

I posted two different sources that debunk what you and others have said. Now you are going to ridicule the source of the information. As if I didn't know you were going to do that. However, you have not provided anything that backs up whatever it is you are trying to prove.

(05-16-2016 01:24 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 12:07 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  There is no need to ban things, because conservatives will simply, and happily, let the market decide if a Royal with Cheese is worth $7.95.

"In theory, raising the minimum wage forces business owners to raise the prices of their goods or services, thereby spurring inflation. In actual practice, however, it is not so simple since wages are only one part of the cost of a product or service paid for by consumers. "

Yes, I am aware. Please note my comment didn't say that the Royal with Cheese was $7.95 because of wages.

Then why would they raise the price? Because more people could afford it?

To maintain earnings. Yes, wages aren't the only ingredient in price; however, wages are the easiest to cut hence why we see that occur nearly every time a business is in financial distress, etc.

Gotta remember most of these people pushing these things and commenting here have never so much as signed an employees check, much less actually made a payroll.

So of course they'll favor things they don't understand and can certainly find academics and government workers that will tell them what they want to hear.

Those of us that have actually done those things know they are, in the real world, simply wrong.

Remember, businesses are in business to provide people jobs and make sure their lives are comfy and secure, just remember that.

We've been raising minimum wage over and over for decades. The people on minimum wage are in the same position..or worse. So lets try it again!

You have a surplus of unskilled labor..and importing more each day.

What do you do?

Import more and raise the price.

Brilliant economic thinkin!



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(05-16-2016 12:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Okay then go ahead and enjoy this one.

https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster

Myth: Raising the minimum wage will only benefit teens.

Not true: The typical minimum wage worker is not a high school student earning weekend pocket money. In fact, 89 percent of those who would benefit from a federal minimum wage increase to $12 per hour are age 20 or older, and 56 percent are women.

Real Answer. Not True, because it wont benefit teens if they dont have a job because they are replaced by a Kiosk.

However, the laughable part of the "mythbusting" is saying that 89% of the workers making minimum wage are over 20. Show me that proof of that. Oh, by the way, restaurant workers who earn tips arent minimum wage workers, but I guarantee you thats where they are getting their numbers from. They will not be effected by a rise in min wage, because they already make more than min wage. The only thing a raise will do is to HURT their income. I know some servers in Memphis who make $2 something an hour. But they pull in nearly $50K. They politely ask that you dont f*ck with their pay rate.

Also, saying raising the min wage only helps teens is the reverse of what is true. Raising the minimum wage HURTS teens and UNSKILLED workers because they will be replaced with automation, they will not be getting that raise. The proof hsa been there for the past 10 years.

Finally, a 30 year old making min wage isnt going to be helped with raising the minimum wage. Thats not the help he needs if he still makes min wage at age 30.

Myth: Increasing the minimum wage will cause people to lose their jobs.[/b]

Not true: In a letter to President Obama and congressional leaders urging a minimum wage increase, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

We have nobel prize winners saying one thing, and we have reality. What happened to all of those summer jobs for high school teens? Ask those nobel winners where those jobs went. Dumbf*cks.

Myth: Small business owners can't afford to pay their workers more, and therefore don't support an increase in the minimum wage.

Not true: A July 2015 survey found that 3 out of 5 small business owners with employees support a gradual increase in the minimum wage to $12. The survey reports that small business owners say an increase "would immediately put more money in the pocket of low-wage workers who will then spend the money on things like housing, food, and gas. This boost in demand for goods and services will help stimulate the economy and help create opportunities."

This is the stupidest piece of **** you have ever fallen for. Really?? 3 out of 5 businesses say "raise the minimum!" Guess what you clueless hack, there is NOTHING STOPPING THEM FROM RAISING IT ON THEIR OWN. So if they are not, then that poll is a complete fabrication. What a stupid piece of propaganda that is.

Myth: Raising the federal tipped minimum wage ($2.13 per hour since 1991) would hurt restaurants.

Not true: In California, employers are required to pay servers the full minimum wage of $9 per hour — before tips. Even with a 2014 increase in the minimum wage, the National Restaurant Association projects California restaurant sales will outpace all but only a handful of states in 2015.

Myth - To believe that ANY STATE will allow an employee to be paid below minimum wage, ever.

All workers, no matter what their rate is set it, must clear the minimum wage. Even restaraunt workers. Cali is doing nothing special. What is true is that raising the minimum wage does not effect servers positively, only negatively. If a business must pay dishwashers $15 an hour, the business will have to dip into the tip pool to cover it. Tell a server who makes $30K a year serving that she has to get bumped back down to $20K, because we have to dig into the tip pool to pay the dishwasher $20K per year as well. Dumbshits.

Myth: Increasing the minimum wage is bad for businesses.

Not true: Academic research has shown that higher wages sharply reduce employee turnover which can reduce employment and training costs.

Ahhhh academia. The bastion of bastards who gave us Obamacare, shovel ready jobs, and cash for clunkers.

Myth: The federal minimum wage is higher today than it was when President Reagan took office.

Not true: While the federal minimum wage was only $3.35 per hour in 1981 and is currently $7.25 per hour in real dollars

Then that makes it true you lying jackazs. You just admitted it.

Myth: Increasing the minimum wage will result in job losses for newly hired and unskilled workers in what some call a “last-one-hired-equals-first-one-fired” scenario.

Not true: Minimum wage increases have little to no negative effect on employment as shown in independent studies from economists across the country. Academic research also has shown that higher wages sharply reduce employee turnover which can reduce employment and training costs.


See Wendy's. See Amazon. It is true, you bunch of bumbling dumbfucks.

(05-16-2016 08:25 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Anyone disputing the fact that paying higher wages for low skilled jobs results in losses of these same jobs due to automation is ignorant. To those making the argument that "service counter jobs were going away anyways and so were not lost due to minimum wage rate increases" completely miss the point. If low skilled jobs are being threatened due to $8/hr minimum wage rates, then WHY raise the rates to $15/hr? I'll tell you why - union workers. The minimum wage rate hikes are cheap victories for winning elections now. However, more importantly it helps provide pay raises to the more skilled union jobs that earn well north of the minimum wage. As stated many times before, union contracts have wage rates tied to minimum wage. If they go up, then workers at GM, Ford, etc will automatically get big pay raises too.

No one gives to craps about low skilled workers. They are simply the excuse given to give help to those whom they really want to help - the high earning union workers. I know a lot of union guys that can make 6 figures thru overtime. Getting an automatic $7/hr raise is making the "rich" richer, while the poor and unskilled have a lot more difficulties finding work. That's the truth, but you'll never hear it from those politicians supporting minimum wage hikes.

The lefties here are too simple minded to understand all of this.

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