Since the last time BYU finished a season ranked (2009) sixty teams have finished a season ranked including 14 Go5. How does BYU in their current situation recruit their way into the mix.
Alabama
Arizona
Arizona St
Arkansas
Auburn
Baylor
Boise State
Cinci
Clemson
Duke
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Houston
Iowa
Kansas State
Louisville
LSU
Maryland
Marshall
Memphis
Michigan
Michigan State
Mississippi
Miss St
Missouri
Navy
Nebraska
Nevada
North Carolina
NC State
Northwestern
Northern Illinois
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Ohio St
Oregon
Oregon St
San Jose St
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Stanford
Tennessee
Texas
Texas A&M
TCU
Tulsa
UCF
UCLA
USC
Utah
Utah State
Vanderbilt
VT
Washington
West Va
Western Ky
Wisconsin

P5 schools that haven't finished ranked:
Cal
WSU
Colorado
TTU
Iowa State
Kansas
Kentucky
Penn St
Purdue
Indiana
Illinois
Minnesota
Rutgers
Miami
Syracuse
Pitt
Virginia
Wake Forest
BC

Thanks to ESPN sorting the independents with the same record alphabetically, BYU is currently the 2nd best independent.

Also ND is 4th behind Massachusetts.


Man do I love the alphabet.

(09-25-2016 06:53 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Since the last time BYU finished a season ranked (2009) sixty teams have finished a season ranked including 14 Go5. How does BYU in their current situation recruit their way into the mix.

Don't know what ranking you're using but Hawaii finished 24th in the final BCS ranking in 2010.

(09-25-2016 06:53 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Since the last time BYU finished a season ranked (2009) sixty teams have finished a season ranked including 14 Go5. How does BYU in their current situation recruit their way into the mix.

Amazing how quick you guys went from proud BCS busters to P5 snobs.

Conference championship race would be nice for our players & fans. Wouldn't do dick for our national relevance, though. Not after 3 losses.

(09-25-2016 09:12 PM)ManleyPointer Wrote:  

(09-25-2016 06:53 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Since the last time BYU finished a season ranked (2009) sixty teams have finished a season ranked including 14 Go5. How does BYU in their current situation recruit their way into the mix.

Amazing how quick you guys went from proud BCS busters to P5 snobs.

Conference championship race would be nice for our players & fans. Wouldn't do dick for our national relevance, though. Not after 3 losses.

I think highlighting the 19 P5 schools that haven't been ranked shows that this isn't a P5/G5 snobbery thing. BYU's recruiting classes are similar to the bottom tier P5 schools and upper tier G5 schools. Top G5 programs (like BYU, Utah, TCU, and Boise) could sell recruits on a winning tradition and conference championships while lower P5 programs could at least sell P5 level of competition. BYU seems to be in a limbo between the two, and I'm not sure that appeals to recruits. I'm also not sure that BYU teams can avoid a late season fade once the bowl game is already set and there's no CCG to play for. It just seams like a setup for malaise and decline.

(09-24-2016 07:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Hey C2, what the hell is a "goong"?

In an alternate modern-day reality, Korea is ruled by a monarchy that struggles to maintain its strength and relevance in today’s society. ... “Goong” also known as “Princess Hours,” is one of the most popular South Korean drama series of 2006.

I think they're happy with it. We need more Independent teams. They want to be a national team and let's be honest they weren't going to go to national championships regardless.

(09-25-2016 09:23 AM)esayem Wrote:  Some football fans have a weird desire to compartmentalize independent programs in conferences. I think it's mild OCD.

Absolutely.

(09-25-2016 06:53 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Since the last time BYU finished a season ranked (2009) sixty teams have finished a season ranked including 14 Go5. How does BYU in their current situation recruit their way into the mix.
Alabama
Arizona
Arizona St
Arkansas
Auburn
Baylor
Boise State
Cinci
Clemson
Duke
Florida
Florida State
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Houston
Iowa
Kansas State
Louisville
LSU
Maryland
Marshall
Memphis
Michigan
Michigan State
Mississippi
Miss St
Missouri
Navy
Nebraska
Nevada
North Carolina
NC State
Northwestern
Northern Illinois
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Ohio St
Oregon
Oregon St
San Jose St
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Stanford
Tennessee
Texas
Texas A&M
TCU
Tulsa
UCF
UCLA
USC
Utah
Utah State
Vanderbilt
VT
Washington
West Va
Western Ky
Wisconsin

P5 schools that haven't finished ranked:
Cal
WSU
Colorado
TTU
Iowa State
Kansas
Kentucky
Penn St
Purdue
Indiana
Illinois
Minnesota
Rutgers
Miami
Syracuse
Pitt
Virginia
Wake Forest
BC

Good to see Miami, Pitt and Syracuse on the later list and Maryland and Rutgers as well.

(09-26-2016 08:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I think they're happy with it. We need more Independent teams. They want to be a national team and let's be honest they weren't going to go to national championships regardless.

The problem for them is if it starts making them out of the top 25 each year, with some years even out of the bowls. And in the 5 years they've been indy, they've finished out of the AP poll all 5 years, and 1st year in coaches #25- but last 4 unranked.

And would say, they've been lucky. Utah hasn't taken that next step yet in the Pac 12. If Utah starts to go to major bowls, that's going to really start to hurt BYU even more.

(09-26-2016 09:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-26-2016 08:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I think they're happy with it. We need more Independent teams. They want to be a national team and let's be honest they weren't going to go to national championships regardless.

The problem for them is if it starts making them out of the top 25 each year, with some years even out of the bowls. And in the 5 years they've been indy, they've finished out of the AP poll all 5 years, and 1st year in coaches #25- but last 4 unranked.

And would say, they've been lucky. Utah hasn't taken that next step yet in the Pac 12. If Utah starts to go to major bowls, that's going to really start to hurt BYU even more.

Would things really be much different if they were in the MWC though? That's my point, it's not like they had a chance to join the PAC12 or Big 12

(09-26-2016 10:00 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(09-26-2016 09:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-26-2016 08:36 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  I think they're happy with it. We need more Independent teams. They want to be a national team and let's be honest they weren't going to go to national championships regardless.

The problem for them is if it starts making them out of the top 25 each year, with some years even out of the bowls. And in the 5 years they've been indy, they've finished out of the AP poll all 5 years, and 1st year in coaches #25- but last 4 unranked.

And would say, they've been lucky. Utah hasn't taken that next step yet in the Pac 12. If Utah starts to go to major bowls, that's going to really start to hurt BYU even more.

Would things really be much different if they were in the MWC though? That's my point, it's not like they had a chance to join the PAC12 or Big 12

well, in the 6 years prior to going indy(2005-10)- they were ranked in the top 25 4 of those 6 years.

I know this is a troll thread, but does anyone really think that BYU has a bad team this year? It's not like the Ewetes, UCLA, WVU, or Arizona ran BYU off the field. BYU was the toughest OOC game for Utah, Arizona, and WVU.

1-3 hurts and moral victories don't count. But, first year head coach. First year OC. First year DC.

BYU fans are used to this drill - it's happened 6 years in a row now. And yet, we still got 60K+ attendance against UCLA and will have 60K+ this Friday night against Toledo. Over 10K BYU fans attended the WVU game in *Maryland* to watch the 1-2 BYU team that had absolutely no shot at the CFP. 30K BYU fans attended the Arizona game in Glendale, outnumbering the Arizona fans.

As pointed out, BYU hasn't really been a top-25 team since 2009. And yet, BYU fans still watch the team and attend games. A lot of great games left on the schedule. Toledo is a good team. Michigan St. Mississippi St. Cincinnati. Boise St. and Utah St. rivalry games.

Politics aside, BYU has a solid program. How many current P5 schools can get 60K attendance with a team that hasn't finished ranked in the top-25 in 6 years? It's less than half of the current P5, because only 30 or so programs ever finish with that type of attendance. How many programs would even *want* "neutral-site" games in Glendale and Landover? BYU wanted these games to give their fans better access to the team.

Personally, I would love to see BYU, Boise St., Air Force, and SDSU in the AAC. That expanded AAC would give BYU a national schedule and some great games. But, it's not going to happen for some time. The Big 12 dream has to be extinguished first. Independence is about Access and Exposure. Those goals have been met in spades over the last 6 years.

And anyone who thinks BYU used to be a great recruiting school doesn't follow recruiting. BYU recruits very differently than the rest of college football and hasn't *ever* been a major player in recruiting. And, it hasn't really changed since independence - if anything it has improved - without any top-25 rankings. And yet, those ho-hum recruits have played pretty evenly against Utah, UCLA, WVU, and Arizona.

(09-24-2016 09:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  For BYU, independence is the best option if they can't join the Big XII as a full member. They won't be back in the MWC nor they consider the American because of one reason only: the University of Utah. They won't concede Utah is the big boy now so they have at least to pretend they're on their level by playing multiple P5 schools a year even if they're automatically disqualified for a major bowl by the third game.

Exactly.

Of course BYU wants to join a *power* conference. They're not passing up being in a *power* conference in order to be independent. That needs to be made clear.

However, BYU will NOT *structurally* relegate themselves to be in the G5 when Utah is sitting in the Pac-12. Emphasis is on the word *structurally*. Access to the access bowl is irrelevant when it comes to the overall perception of being a member of a G5 league. Being independent allows BYU to argue that they're "special" compared to Utah (e.g. "We can get our TV contract with ESPN in a way that Utah couldn't"), whereas going to any G5 league means buying a home in an inherently worse neighborhood that can't be dressed up. That's just not going to happen.

So, to the OP's point, I think independence is great for BYU in the sense that it's the best option that they have IF they can't get into a P5 conference. I commend them in finding a path to leverage their assets in a way where they are largely perceived of being in a place that's better than being in a G5 league (even if it's not as great as being in a P5 league). Most of the people whining about BYU are fans of G5 conferences that want/wish/hope/pray that BYU will "come to their senses" and join them even though it's an absolute non-starter when looking at Utah's place.

I've said this elsewhere: this is akin to Michigan State being in the Big Ten while Michigan is sitting with a choice between being in the MAC or independent. Michigan doesn't just think they're equal to MSU. Instead, Michigan legitimately thinks that they are *better* than MSU in every way (e.g. academically, size of fan base, sports history, etc.), so the thought of being in a G5 league while MSU is in a P5 league is untenable. Michigan would choose independence every time over being in the MAC in that situation since that allows them to exert an aura of power and prestige that relegating themselves to a G5 conference simply can't regardless of how many access bowls that they make. This is what BYU is facing right now. They're making the best of a bad P5/G5 situation in a way that no other school is able to do today, so kudos to them. Believe me - if schools like UConn, Houston, UCF, Boise State, etc. were able to do what BYU is able to do with independence, they'd do it in a heartbeat if they can't get an invite to the Big 12.

(09-26-2016 10:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  ...whereas going to any G5 league means buying a home in an inherently worse neighborhood that can't be dressed up.

...Most of the people whining about BYU are fans of G5 conferences that want/wish/hope/pray that BYU will "come to their senses" and join them even though it's an absolute non-starter when looking at Utah's place.

Love the metaphor of ybu refusing to move to an inherently worse neighborhood. I see them as neither Beverly Hills nor inner city projects (or anywhere along that spectrum), but rather as having a truly pimped-out RV (HDTV truck?) that goes all over the country. Nuthin' wrong with that.

This Ram fan has been-there-done-that with ybu. Wouldn't want them in the MWC again. My attitude has nothing to do with the players or fans or the church, even:
- their athletic department attempted to destroy the MWC (by encouraging other MW schools to defect to the WAC(!)) before making the decision to go independent.
- we WAC/MWC schools tolerated the ybu concessions for decades -- and I'm not talkin' about green jello. One of the more recent concessions was to install a black tarp around the court at the MWC mens bball tournament so their players/coaches wouldn't be harrassed by fans. Yeesh.

They left...good for them. All the best wishes to them in that endeavor.

(09-26-2016 11:40 AM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  

(09-26-2016 10:42 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  ...whereas going to any G5 league means buying a home in an inherently worse neighborhood that can't be dressed up.

...Most of the people whining about BYU are fans of G5 conferences that want/wish/hope/pray that BYU will "come to their senses" and join them even though it's an absolute non-starter when looking at Utah's place.

This Ram fan has been-there-done-that with ybu. Wouldn't want them in the MWC again.
They left...good for them. All the best wishes to them in that endeavor.

Ditto.

(09-26-2016 11:40 AM)All Rams All The Time Wrote:  ...
One of the more recent concessions was to install a black tarp around the court at the MWC mens bball tournament so their players/coaches wouldn't be harrassed by fans. Yeesh.

Hearing things like BYU demanded the black tarp around the court makes me smile. Look at this photo from 2016's conference tournament:


If this was just a concession that BYU demanded, why has the conference continued to use the boundary YEARS after BYU is gone?

Maybe it was something they added but never got around to changing back, like half the rules to basketball.

(09-26-2016 12:07 PM)f1do Wrote:  If this was just a concession that BYU demanded, why has the conference continued to use the boundary YEARS after BYU is gone?

A helluva good question! I dunno...

(09-26-2016 12:07 PM)f1do Wrote:  If this was just a concession that BYU demanded, why has the conference continued to use the boundary YEARS after BYU is gone?

friggin' duplicate post...