Alternative SWC:

When formed in 1914, the original SWC looked like this:

Texas A&M

UT-Austin

Arkansas

Baylor

Rice

Oklahoma

Oklahoma A&M (later OSU)


(Southwestern was also part of the original 1915 group but would only be a member for one year so I'm ignoring them)

Invitations were also issued to LSU and Ole Miss but they declined. In this scenario they accept and the Oklahoma schools stay as members. SMU and TCU also both join by 1923 like in real life.

So in 1924 the conference looks like this:

Texas A&M
TCU
UT-Austin
SMU
Baylor
Rice
Arkansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
LSU
Ole Miss

Nebraska and then Kansas, Missouri are later added to form a 14 team super SWC that looks like this today (with permanent opposite division opponent in parenthesis)



Texas A&M (Nebraska)
UT-Austin (Oklahoma)
Arkansas (LSU)
SMU (Ole Miss)
TCU (Oklahoma State)
Baylor (Missouri)
Rice (Kansas)

(08-05-2017 04:13 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(08-05-2017 01:14 AM)AntiG Wrote:  Nebraska and Colorado announced their moves to the B1G and the PAC-10.

After initial speedbump, the PAC reconvenes with Texas and finally agrees to allow the LHN. A&M chooses the SEC over the PAC, and Mizzou follows them to the SEC.

PAC-11 adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Utah to become the new PAC-16.

The Big East and remaining Big XII members (Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State) agree to a merger. Due to the other teams abandoning the XII, the remaining teams carry the history and basketball credits to the already insane BE basketball conference, and as a result also stabilizes the icy relationships behind the scenes between the basketball and football schools, thus preventing the divorce. Additionally, this weakens the ACC's pitch to Syracuse, Pitt and ND, so this no longer happens anymore either.

Due to this happening, TCU does not go back on their agreement to join the BE and obviously WVU does not get an invitation to leave, and SD State and Boise State invites never happen. To balance it out to 14 football schools, Temple is re-invited as a full member.

The new upgraded BE:

Football (14): Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, South Florida, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Temple, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU
Basketball (22): Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, South Florida, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, Temple, Georgetown, DePaul, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Notre Dame

Shortly afterwards, the B1G comes calling to Rutgers and Maryland with an invitation. The difference this time is that the BE did not already previously lose WVU, so this time losing Rutgers does not destabilize the football conference. Additionally, with the BE now arguably more stable than the ACC (getting rejected by Syracuse, Pitt & ND, losing Maryland, and FSU/Clemson threatening to leave), Louisville declines the ACC invite. The BE decides to ask ND to become a football member, gets rejected as expected, and adds Navy as a football only member.

Football (14): UConn, Syracuse, South Florida, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Temple, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, Navy
Basketball (21): UConn, Syracuse, South Florida, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, Temple, Georgetown, DePaul, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Notre Dame

The ACC is now down to 11 members: BC, VT, UVA, UNC, NC State, GT, FSU, Miami, WF, Duke, Clemson

The B1G now seeing a weakened ACC after grabbing Maryland and the ACC not having made their additions, swoop in and offer FSU and GT memberships. They accept.
Rutgers, Penn State, Maryland, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Iowa, Purdue, Indiana, Nebraska, Northwestern, Illinois, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, Florida State

ACC now has to backfill after dropping to 9. They invite schools that increase their media area, expand more into Texas and Florida, help with basketball and football, and also add a couple of fits as academic partners for their private institutions: Houston, UCF, Memphis, Tulane and Rice to get to 14.
BC, VT, UVA, UNC, NC State, Miami, WF, Duke, Clemson, Houston, UCF, Memphis, Tulane, Rice

Very interesting! Just a point though: if the ACC is adding one of Houston or Rice, they would not add the other, especially if there are already travel partners in the form of Tulane and/or Memphis.

I'm skeptical about the Big East's Temple invite. I would think it more likely that they add only one or three of Baylor, Kansas, KSU, and ISU to keep their football numbers even (either only Kansas or all but KSU), if indeed that's considered crucial to the conference.

Well the story that was already confirmed by several members (I believe that Bill Self is one of them) is that had the PAC deal gone through, the remaining four members had an agreement in place to merge the conference with the BE, so all four would have gone as a package. Tulane and Rice I threw in there as an appeasement for the private/more academically focused schools that probably would not love the idea of expanding so far outside of their geographic comfort zone, but it really could have been any of the top candidates over the past couple of decades that the BE/AAC looked at but in this scenario the tables turned on the ACC instead (ECU, Tulsa, SMU, NIU, Ohio, Buffalo, UMass, USM, Army, Marshall, UAB). As far as Temple goes, I believe it may have been in the works already by the time the Big XII hit their crisis, and by that point they had been turning around their football program, but certainly could have had the BE stop at 12 and Temple ends up as backfill in the ACC instead.

(08-05-2017 08:12 AM)AntiG Wrote:  Well the story that was already confirmed by several members (I believe that Bill Self is one of them) is that had the PAC deal gone through, the remaining four members had an agreement in place to merge the conference with the BE, so all four would have gone as a package. Tulane and Rice I threw in there as an appeasement for the private/more academically focused schools that probably would not love the idea of expanding so far outside of their geographic comfort zone, but it really could have been any of the top candidates over the past couple of decades that the BE/AAC looked at but in this scenario the tables turned on the ACC instead (ECU, Tulsa, SMU, NIU, Ohio, Buffalo, UMass, USM, Army, Marshall, UAB). As far as Temple goes, I believe it may have been in the works already by the time the Big XII hit their crisis, and by that point they had been turning around their football program, but certainly could have had the BE stop at 12 and Temple ends up as backfill in the ACC instead.

Good to know about the Big East/Big 12 remnant merger plan. The non-football part of the conference gets rather bloated that way, though.

I had thought the main reason Temple was invited back in was to replace West Virginia, but they don't leave in your scenario. Temple still could have been added later, but there is much less need to do so here.

I haven't read this entire thread so this may sound similar to earlier posts.At one time the Metro Conference considered adding football and with the plan college football would've looked very different with conference alignment.The Big East would've never had football and the ACC would've stayed with the same membership it had after Georgia Tech joined.

North:Penn St.,Pittsburgh,Syracuse,Connecticut,Rutgers
Mideast:Temple,West Virginia,Boston College,Cincinnati,Louisville
South:East Carolina,South Carolina,Virginia Tech,Florida St.,Miami
Midwest:Memphis,Southern Mississippi,Tulane,Tulsa,Houston

I don't remember the exact list of schools being considered at the time but there's my 20.

(08-05-2017 09:49 AM)Gibson Tiger Wrote:  I haven't read this entire thread so this may sound similar to earlier posts.At one time the Metro Conference considered adding football and with the plan college football would've looked very different with conference alignment.The Big East would've never had football and the ACC would've stayed with the same membership it had after Georgia Tech joined.

North:Penn St.,Pittsburgh,Syracuse,Connecticut,Rutgers
Mideast:Temple,West Virginia,Boston College,Cincinnati,Louisville
South:East Carolina,South Carolina,Virginia Tech,Florida St.,Miami
Midwest:Memphis,Southern Mississippi,Tulane,Tulsa,Houston

I don't remember the exact list of schools being considered at the time but there's my 20.

The arrangement would have supposedly been like so:

North: Boston College, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
South: East Carolina, Florida State, Louisville, Memphis (State), Miami, South Carolina, Southern Miss, Tulane

This was after Penn State had already accepted the Big Ten invite, though. At the time of the proposal (1990), Houston was still in the Southwest Conference, and Connecticut was still in the I-AA Yankee Conference.

I would have favored a 4-division alignment:

East: Boston College, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple
North: Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
South: East Carolina, Florida State, Miami, South Carolina
West: Louisville, Memphis (State), Southern Miss, Tulane

(08-04-2017 04:27 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  While I have nothing against the AAC, its formation/continuation did cause a cascade of realignment that resulted in an almost complete membership turnover of C-USA and the Sun Belt. Could the creation of the AAC could have been averted? Perhaps the announced exodus of WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse is somehow delayed by about a year, by which point Rutgers and Louisville would have secured future homes in the Big Ten and ACC, respectively. By then you'd have at least 75% of the 16 members potentially in favor of dissolving the conference, assuming at least 7 of the 8 Catholic non-football schools are fine with starting up a new "Big East" as in our timeline. Only UConn, Cincy, USF, and possibly ND would be opposed. This could prevent financial penalties for the departing schools, though the legal details are beyond me, and I'm sure some hush money is exchanged in any case. In theory, UConn, Cincy, and USF could still start up a new conference, but I think it would have been a lot harder to do so. Maybe instead they join C-USA or go football independent. Notre Dame likely half-commits to the ACC as in our timeline.

Alternately, perhaps the restocking Big 12 is in a more expansive mood, taking on Cincinnati and Louisville in addition to WVU. Pitt and Syracuse are still bound for the ACC, and Rutgers for the Big Ten. With Louisville taken, the ACC probably taps UConn to replace outgoing Maryland. This leaves USF as the only football member of the Big East. The non-football schools vote to drop football from the conference. USF is picked up by C-USA (either football only or full member, not sure which). Notre Dame makes the same deal with the ACC as it did in our timeline.

In either scenario, C-USA doesn't lose any members and potentially gains at least one Big East survivor. This means no need to prey on the Sun Belt, which in turn has no need to draw additional members from FCS. The WAC is also given a reprieve, but I still think they'll end up dropping football due to having too few members.

Assuming the latter of the two scenarios above takes place, here's what the FBS might look like when all is said and done. Note that I didn't go with a strict geographic alignment for the Big 12. I imagine they might learn a lesson and separate the Texas and Oklahoma schools into different divisions. The Red River Rivalry would of course remain a protected crossover.

ACC
Atlantic: Boston College, Clemson, Connecticut, Florida State, NC State, Syracuse, Wake Forest
Coastal: Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami (FL), North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Big 12
North: Cincinnati, Iowa State, Louisville, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas, Texas Tech

Big Ten
East: Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers
West: Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue, Wisconsin

Pac-12
North: California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State
South: Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, UCLA, USC, Utah

SEC
Eastern: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Western: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M

FBS Independent
Army, BYU, Idaho, Navy, New Mexico State, Notre Dame

C-USA
East: Central Florida, East Carolina, Marshall, Memphis, South Florida, Southern Miss, UAB
West: Houston, Louisiana Tech, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, UTEP

MAC
East: Akron, Buffalo, Kent State, Massachusetts, Miami (OH), Ohio, Temple
West: Ball State, Bowling Green, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Northern Illinois, Toledo, Western Michigan

MWC
Mountain: Air Force, Boise State, Colorado State, New Mexico, Utah State, Wyoming
West: Fresno State, Hawaii, Nevada, San Diego State, San Jose State, UNLV

Sun Belt
East: FAU, FIU, Middle Tennessee, South Alabama, Troy, Western Kentucky
West: Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, North Texas, Texas State, UTSA

Any thoughts?

I like this scenario and had things moved faster and the Big 12 been smarter I think it would have worked out very well.

I like that you left Temple and UMass In the MAC. Who knows, they might have caught the expansion itch and looked at ODU & JMU as football affiliates as well.

You need someone to go to C-USA with USF and I see you picked LA Tech. that seems pretty plausible considering their history and strength of program. ECU would probably campaign for Charlotte or ODU but I think with the East getting USF C-USA West would want control of determining #14.

I also see that you went ahead and added UTSA and Texas St to the Sunbelt. What about programs like GA St, Charlotte, and ODU. I could see GA St getting in over Texas St.

Speaking of which, what do you think would happen with programs like GA St, Charlotte, ODU, GA Southern, and Appalachian St? Would these schools still be interested in moving up and taking over control of the WAC (sorry NMSU and Idaho, they only way to stay FBS here is to let the conference footprint shift to the Southeast). That group eventually gets supplemented by JMU, Liberty, and Coastal Carolina. That gives 8 core schools in the new footprint plus Idaho and New Mexico St.

(08-05-2017 07:29 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Alternative SWC:

When formed in 1914, the original SWC looked like this:

Texas A&M

UT-Austin

Arkansas

Baylor

Rice

Oklahoma

Oklahoma A&M (later OSU)


(Southwestern was also part of the original 1915 group but would only be a member for one year so I'm ignoring them)

Invitations were also issued to LSU and Ole Miss but they declined. In this scenario they accept and the Oklahoma schools stay as members. SMU and TCU also both join by 1923 like in real life.

So in 1924 the conference looks like this:

Texas A&M
TCU
UT-Austin
SMU
Baylor
Rice
Arkansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
LSU
Ole Miss

Nebraska and then Kansas, Missouri are later added to form a 14 team super SWC that looks like this today (with permanent opposite division opponent in parenthesis)



Texas A&M (Nebraska)
UT-Austin (Oklahoma)
Arkansas (LSU)
SMU (Ole Miss)
TCU (Oklahoma State)
Baylor (Missouri)
Rice (Kansas)

I like this premise and I think it radically reshapes what else where.

SEC: without LSU and Ole Miss what happens with Tulane and Miss St? Do they still become SEC founders when that group breaks away from the SoCon? Without LSU and Ole Miss (and possibly their instate rivals) does that make more room for programs like Clemson, South Carolina, and the others that would later form the ACC?

Big 6/7/8: with Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri all out of the picture Iowa St and Kansas St end up stranded in a little school league. Colorado probably never joins.

Texas Tech and Houston: I know Tech was in the Border. I'm not sure where Houston was. Tech's presence in the Border and Colorado in the Skyline make both of those leagues stronger. Maybe both of these find their way into the WAC when it forms from the best of both leagues.

(08-05-2017 10:39 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I like this scenario and had things moved faster and the Big 12 been smarter I think it would have worked out very well.

I like that you left Temple and UMass In the MAC. Who knows, they might have caught the expansion itch and looked at ODU & JMU as football affiliates as well.

You need someone to go to C-USA with USF and I see you picked LA Tech. that seems pretty plausible considering their history and strength of program. ECU would probably campaign for Charlotte or ODU but I think with the East getting USF C-USA West would want control of determining #14.

I also see that you went ahead and added UTSA and Texas St to the Sunbelt. What about programs like GA St, Charlotte, and ODU. I could see GA St getting in over Texas St.

Speaking of which, what do you think would happen with programs like GA St, Charlotte, ODU, GA Southern, and Appalachian St? Would these schools still be interested in moving up and taking over control of the WAC (sorry NMSU and Idaho, they only way to stay FBS here is to let the conference footprint shift to the Southeast). That group eventually gets supplemented by JMU, Liberty, and Coastal Carolina. That gives 8 core schools in the new footprint plus Idaho and New Mexico St.

Glad you like. Since Temple had nowhere to move on to, they're committed to the MAC for the long haul. As such, UMass is sought to balance out the divisions. In this scenario, UMass is more inclined to go in full with the MAC because Temple already did and because there is no other low-level east coast FBS conference to turn to. Here Louisiana Tech, Texas State, and UTSA are refugees of WAC football and are willing to take whatever deal they can get. C-USA still has four Texas teams and opts for a second in Louisiana to balance out USF. Ideally they would have stayed at 12, but they couldn't turn down USF. The Sun Belt sees the advantage of more colonies in Texas and grabs the latter two refugees to reach 12 and split into divisions (here there is no 10-team Big 12 to push for conference championships without divisions). With all FBS conference slots effectively full up, this puts the kibosh on further invites from the FCS. Georgia State and the other Southern schools stay put. The MWC understandably wants no part of Idaho or NMSU, forcing them to go independent. Either or both may end up dropping down to FCS as Idaho will in our timeline.

Variant on the "no-AAC" scenario in which the Big 12 goes big when restocking after the 2011-12 defections:

The Big 12, down to eight schools after losing Missouri and A&M to the SEC, Nebraska to the Big Ten, and Colorado to the Pac, offers invites to TCU and WVU, as in our timeline. They also invite Louisville (giving WVU a travel partner) and Houston (doubling down on their loss of A&M by invading the other of the two largest metros in Texas). The Big 12 adopts an ACC-style "zipper" divisional alignment to avoid splitting the Oklahoma schools and for competitive balance.

Central Division: Baylor, Iowa State, Louisville, Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia
Plains Division: Houston, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TCU

Unlike the ACC, there is only one protected crossover (UT/OU). The Big 12 retains an 8-game conference schedule.

With Louisville spoken for, the ACC opts to replace Maryland with Cincinnati over UConn to better bolster their football reputation. UConn remains in the Big East for non-football sports and goes football independent, while USF football joins C-USA as in the scenario I reference. Also similarly, the Big East drops football and no American Athletic Conference forms.

(08-05-2017 10:57 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I like this premise and I think it radically reshapes what else where.

SEC: without LSU and Ole Miss what happens with Tulane and Miss St? Do they still become SEC founders when that group breaks away from the SoCon? Without LSU and Ole Miss (and possibly their instate rivals) does that make more room for programs like Clemson, South Carolina, and the others that would later form the ACC?

Big 6/7/8: with Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri all out of the picture Iowa St and Kansas St end up stranded in a little school league. Colorado probably never joins.

Texas Tech and Houston: I know Tech was in the Border. I'm not sure where Houston was. Tech's presence in the Border and Colorado in the Skyline make both of those leagues stronger. Maybe both of these find their way into the WAC when it forms from the best of both leagues.

Houston, before entering the SWC and before that being independent, was in the Missouri Valley.

(08-05-2017 11:22 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(08-05-2017 10:57 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I like this premise and I think it radically reshapes what else where.

SEC: without LSU and Ole Miss what happens with Tulane and Miss St? Do they still become SEC founders when that group breaks away from the SoCon? Without LSU and Ole Miss (and possibly their instate rivals) does that make more room for programs like Clemson, South Carolina, and the others that would later form the ACC?

Big 6/7/8: with Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri all out of the picture Iowa St and Kansas St end up stranded in a little school league. Colorado probably never joins.

Texas Tech and Houston: I know Tech was in the Border. I'm not sure where Houston was. Tech's presence in the Border and Colorado in the Skyline make both of those leagues stronger. Maybe both of these find their way into the WAC when it forms from the best of both leagues.

Houston, before entering the SWC and before that being independent, was in the Missouri Valley.

Also, its football program didn't start up until 1946.

The athletic program didn't begin until 1946.

What if... when the ACC was first formed, let's say VT had not been in charge of the SoCon when it broke up, and the ACC leaders had the foresight to put in a "no more than 2 schools per state" rule - so UNC and Duke are in, but NC State and Wake are out (NC State eventually ending up in the SEC)? With VT in and only 2 schools in North Carolina, some of the expansion votes which were blocked actually get approved now...

Original ACC: Maryland, VT, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Clemson, S Carolina

Let's say they quickly move to add Pitt, Penn State, WVU and Syracuse, then shortly thereafter add GT, FSU and Miami.

In this scenario Rutgers and BC never really grow into P5 programs, but Louisville still does, so the ACC grabs them along with a Notre Dame program which was temporarily down as well.

Hypothetical ACC: Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, WVU, Louisville, Notre Dame, VT, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Clemson, S Carolina, GT, FSU, Miami

That would've been a very strong ACC with those additions (and 2 less teams in NC), in my opinion.

Virginia Tech and West Virginia were voted-in like UNC pushed for during the formation of the conference. SC was allowed to return, Georgia Tech and either FSU or Miami invited for numbers 11 and 12.

Maryland
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
South Carolina
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU/Miami

Play four permanent rivals each year and rotate the rest. Championship game cannot be a rematch of rivalry week.

Instead of the 4 Big XII members joining the BE the 8 FB playing members of the BE join the XII along with TCU and UCF making a 14 team Big XIV. The BE now a non-FB conference keeps ND and invites Xavier, Creighton, Butler and Saint Louis.

Big XIV:

East- Rutgers, UConn, Cuse, UCF, USF, Pitt, WVU

West- TCU, Baylor, ISU, KSU, KU, Cincy, UofL

Rutgers still gets poached by the B1G and Temple is their replacement.

(08-06-2017 08:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  Virginia Tech and West Virginia were voted-in like UNC pushed for during the formation of the conference. SC was allowed to return, Georgia Tech and either FSU or Miami invited for numbers 11 and 12.

Maryland
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
South Carolina
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU/Miami

Play four permanent rivals each year and rotate the rest. Championship game cannot be a rematch of rivalry week.

So if the teams that end up #1 and #2 are rivals and happen to play on the last week of the regular season, does #3 play #1 in the championship? I'm not sure that would go over well. I suppose the teams would just avoid scheduling rivalry games the last week of the regular season, but it seems like an unnecessary restriction for a relatively rare event. I'm not even sure what's so bad about a conference championship game after the teams already played the prior week.

(08-06-2017 01:41 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Instead of the 4 Big XII members joining the BE the 8 FB playing members of the BE join the XII along with TCU and UCF making a 14 team Big XIV. The BE now a non-FB conference keeps ND and invites Xavier, Creighton, Butler and Saint Louis.

Big XIV:

East- Rutgers, UConn, Cuse, UCF, USF, Pitt, WVU

West- TCU, Baylor, ISU, KSU, KU, Cincy, UofL

Rutgers still gets poached by the B1G and Temple is their replacement.

Interesting! I imagine Louisville may be taken by the ACC as well. Who would replace them? Memphis, perhaps? Of course, if the merged conference could anticipate the simultaneous departures of both Rutgers and Louisville, they could stick at 12 and not invite Temple.

If Notre Dame's non-football sports stay in the Big East, I guess that would mean they don't need to arrange a football scheduling agreement with any other conference. Although they could have gone that route in our timeline but opted not to. So maybe they would still hook up with either the ACC, Big 12/14, or Big Ten in a manner similar to their deal with the ACC in our timeline.

(08-06-2017 02:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 08:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  Virginia Tech and West Virginia were voted-in like UNC pushed for during the formation of the conference. SC was allowed to return, Georgia Tech and either FSU or Miami invited for numbers 11 and 12.

Maryland
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
South Carolina
Clemson
Georgia Tech
FSU/Miami

Play four permanent rivals each year and rotate the rest. Championship game cannot be a rematch of rivalry week.

So if the teams that end up #1 and #2 are rivals and happen to play on the last week of the regular season, does #3 play #1 in the championship? I'm not sure that would go over well. I suppose the teams would just avoid scheduling rivalry games the last week of the regular season, but it seems like an unnecessary restriction for a relatively rare event. I'm not even sure what's so bad about a conference championship game after the teams already played the prior week.

(08-06-2017 01:41 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Instead of the 4 Big XII members joining the BE the 8 FB playing members of the BE join the XII along with TCU and UCF making a 14 team Big XIV. The BE now a non-FB conference keeps ND and invites Xavier, Creighton, Butler and Saint Louis.

Big XIV:

East- Rutgers, UConn, Cuse, UCF, USF, Pitt, WVU

West- TCU, Baylor, ISU, KSU, KU, Cincy, UofL

Rutgers still gets poached by the B1G and Temple is their replacement.

Interesting! I imagine Louisville may be taken by the ACC as well. Who would replace them? Memphis, perhaps? Of course, if the merged conference could anticipate the simultaneous departures of both Rutgers and Louisville, they could stick at 12 and not invite Temple.

If Notre Dame's non-football sports stay in the Big East, I guess that would mean they don't need to arrange a football scheduling agreement with any other conference. Although they could have gone that route in our timeline but opted not to. So maybe they would still hook up with either the ACC, Big 12/14, or Big Ten in a manner similar to their deal with the ACC in our timeline.

Well if the ACC is looking to replace Maryland Cuse, Pitt and WVU would be ahead of Lousiville and if those 3 say no then possibly the Cards do as well.

(08-06-2017 02:16 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Well if the ACC is looking to replace Maryland Cuse, Pitt and WVU would be ahead of Lousiville and if those 3 say no then possibly the Cards do as well.

Ah, good point. I don't think WVU would be ahead of Louisville, though. Louisville is already a stretch for the ACC, academically speaking. That still leaves the question of who would replace the Big 12/14 school that's picked off by the ACC, or if none are, who the ACC does actually go with to replace Maryland.

(08-06-2017 06:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  What if... when the ACC was first formed, let's say VT had not been in charge of the SoCon when it broke up, and the ACC leaders had the foresight to put in a "no more than 2 schools per state" rule - so UNC and Duke are in, but NC State and Wake are out (NC State eventually ending up in the SEC)? With VT in and only 2 schools in North Carolina, some of the expansion votes which were blocked actually get approved now...

Original ACC: Maryland, VT, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Clemson, S Carolina

Let's say they quickly move to add Pitt, Penn State, WVU and Syracuse, then shortly thereafter add GT, FSU and Miami.

In this scenario Rutgers and BC never really grow into P5 programs, but Louisville still does, so the ACC grabs them along with a Notre Dame program which was temporarily down as well.

Hypothetical ACC: Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, WVU, Louisville, Notre Dame, VT, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Clemson, S Carolina, GT, FSU, Miami

That would've been a very strong ACC with those additions (and 2 less teams in NC), in my opinion.

To be fair to BC:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Sugar_Bowl

(08-06-2017 04:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-06-2017 06:26 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  What if... when the ACC was first formed, let's say VT had not been in charge of the SoCon when it broke up, and the ACC leaders had the foresight to put in a "no more than 2 schools per state" rule - so UNC and Duke are in, but NC State and Wake are out (NC State eventually ending up in the SEC)? With VT in and only 2 schools in North Carolina, some of the expansion votes which were blocked actually get approved now...

Original ACC: Maryland, VT, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Clemson, S Carolina

Let's say they quickly move to add Pitt, Penn State, WVU and Syracuse, then shortly thereafter add GT, FSU and Miami.

In this scenario Rutgers and BC never really grow into P5 programs, but Louisville still does, so the ACC grabs them along with a Notre Dame program which was temporarily down as well.

Hypothetical ACC: Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, WVU, Louisville, Notre Dame, VT, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Clemson, S Carolina, GT, FSU, Miami

That would've been a very strong ACC with those additions (and 2 less teams in NC), in my opinion.

To be fair to BC:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Sugar_Bowl

But in the 80s the BC program grew, then had some bad years under Bicknell, then grew again when Coughlin got there, then sputtered again, then O'Brien brought them back. BC needs the right coach but can put good teams on the field.