(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?

Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times. You personally live better right now than 99% of all humans ever born.

What other rules were they given other than don't eat off this tree? Its not like Adam and Eve didn't know God existed, the knew Him personally at that point. He literally walked and talked with them.

Its also important to understand YHWH knew they would be willingly deceived by Satan and eat off the tree. His entire plan from the start was the fall and redemption of man. He wanted those who would CHOOSE to follow Him over Satan would inherit way more than just a fleshly existence, He wanted us to freely choose Him so he could righteously make us Gods like Himself, Sons of the Living God. Perfect, righteous, incorruptible beings who love our Father and Savior above all.

But He doesn't want slaves, He wants those who free choose Him.

Mankind had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate off the tree. YHWH desired for man to know good and evil, and willingly and knowingly choose to follow Him over Satan. Thus He could righteously crown us with eternal life and take us as His own children.

(02-19-2018 03:03 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Why do Christians care what atheists think? That’s the same kind of nanny BS that liberals pull.

It's called empathy????

(02-19-2018 08:23 PM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 03:03 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Why do Christians care what atheists think? That’s the same kind of nanny BS that liberals pull.

It's called empathy????

It may be. But why do firefighters join Rescue Squads? They don't want anyone to perish.

(02-19-2018 07:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?

Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times. You personally live better right now than 99% of all humans ever born.

What other rules were they given other than don't eat off this tree? Its not like Adam and Eve didn't know God existed, the knew Him personally at that point. He literally walked and talked with them.

Its also important to understand YHWH knew they would be willingly deceived by Satan and eat off the tree. His entire plan from the start was the fall and redemption of man. He wanted those who would CHOOSE to follow Him over Satan would inherit way more than just a fleshly existence, He wanted us to freely choose Him so he could righteously make us Gods like Himself, Sons of the Living God. Perfect, righteous, incorruptible beings who love our Father and Savior above all.

But He doesn't want slaves, He wants those who free choose Him.

Mankind had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate off the tree. YHWH desired for man to know good and evil, and willingly and knowingly choose to follow Him over Satan. Thus He could righteously crown us with eternal life and take us as His own children.

What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

this is why I always thank you guys for doing the due.....

defining "failth" in any form has never made sense to me......

it's why it's "faith" en macro.....

#screwsemantics

arguing semantics is pretty fk'n easy.....

I choose the path of "good" vs. "bad"

driving to a common demoninator has always made the most sense to me.....

.....and there's no way I watch whateverthefokkkk that stupid shite is all about.....

#wasteoftime

#likepostingonthisboardatthispoint

#justdadgum

#likegoingtochurch

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Your comment makes no sense at all. You are arguing God created the earth and man and had no idea what He was doing or no idea what was going to happen. I'm sorry my friend but if you think most preachers teach or think that that you are greatly deceiving yourself.

Furthermore, God did not make an evil world, He allowed fallen man to make an evil world of their own accord.

You have the same problem a lot of atheists have, you want to make God evil because He dares to hold man accountable for the choices and actions they make. You want to have free will, but you don't want to be held accountable for your choices.

(02-19-2018 10:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Your comment makes no sense at all. You are arguing God created the earth and man and had no idea what He was doing or no idea what was going to happen. I'm sorry my friend but if you think most preachers teach or think that that you are greatly deceiving yourself.

Furthermore, God did not make an evil world, He allowed fallen man to make an evil world of their own accord.

You have the same problem a lot of atheists have, you want to make God evil because He dares to hold man accountable for the choices and actions they make. You want to have free will, but you don't want to be held accountable for your choices.

The Earth was devoid of life at creation. God created life.

(02-19-2018 10:54 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 10:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Your comment makes no sense at all. You are arguing God created the earth and man and had no idea what He was doing or no idea what was going to happen. I'm sorry my friend but if you think most preachers teach or think that that you are greatly deceiving yourself.

Furthermore, God did not make an evil world, He allowed fallen man to make an evil world of their own accord.

You have the same problem a lot of atheists have, you want to make God evil because He dares to hold man accountable for the choices and actions they make. You want to have free will, but you don't want to be held accountable for your choices.

The Earth was devoid of life at creation. God created life.

Did you think I suggested otherwise?

Man and the animals were created on day 5 & 6. Not day 1. Neither man or animals or the earth were created in a fallen state either.

(02-19-2018 10:55 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 10:54 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 10:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Your comment makes no sense at all. You are arguing God created the earth and man and had no idea what He was doing or no idea what was going to happen. I'm sorry my friend but if you think most preachers teach or think that that you are greatly deceiving yourself.

Furthermore, God did not make an evil world, He allowed fallen man to make an evil world of their own accord.

You have the same problem a lot of atheists have, you want to make God evil because He dares to hold man accountable for the choices and actions they make. You want to have free will, but you don't want to be held accountable for your choices.

The Earth was devoid of life at creation. God created life.

Did you think I suggested otherwise?

You? of course not.

(02-19-2018 10:56 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 10:55 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 10:54 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 10:51 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Your comment makes no sense at all. You are arguing God created the earth and man and had no idea what He was doing or no idea what was going to happen. I'm sorry my friend but if you think most preachers teach or think that that you are greatly deceiving yourself.

Furthermore, God did not make an evil world, He allowed fallen man to make an evil world of their own accord.

You have the same problem a lot of atheists have, you want to make God evil because He dares to hold man accountable for the choices and actions they make. You want to have free will, but you don't want to be held accountable for your choices.

The Earth was devoid of life at creation. God created life.

Did you think I suggested otherwise?

You? of course not.

I see, You were just adding to the point.

(02-19-2018 07:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times.

Your god must not come from the "how to win friends and influence people" line of thinking.

(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?

Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

Forget the Adam, Eve and the rest of the world. Have you personally ever done anything wrong?

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?

Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times. You personally live better right now than 99% of all humans ever born.

What other rules were they given other than don't eat off this tree? Its not like Adam and Eve didn't know God existed, the knew Him personally at that point. He literally walked and talked with them.

Its also important to understand YHWH knew they would be willingly deceived by Satan and eat off the tree. His entire plan from the start was the fall and redemption of man. He wanted those who would CHOOSE to follow Him over Satan would inherit way more than just a fleshly existence, He wanted us to freely choose Him so he could righteously make us Gods like Himself, Sons of the Living God. Perfect, righteous, incorruptible beings who love our Father and Savior above all.

But He doesn't want slaves, He wants those who free choose Him.

Mankind had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate off the tree. YHWH desired for man to know good and evil, and willingly and knowingly choose to follow Him over Satan. Thus He could righteously crown us with eternal life and take us as His own children.

What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Knowing what a person will do does not equate to forcing that person to do it.

I know my wife pretty well. A recent issue came up at home regarding some work a contractor is doing for us.

I knew exactly how she was going to respond but in no way did I cause her to respond that way.

(02-20-2018 09:15 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times.

Your god must not come from the "how to win friends and influence people" line of thinking.

Well, being beaten and hung on a cross to die as a sacrifice for the sin of all mankind doesn't make it seem like He's a jerk.

(02-20-2018 10:17 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times. You personally live better right now than 99% of all humans ever born.

What other rules were they given other than don't eat off this tree? Its not like Adam and Eve didn't know God existed, the knew Him personally at that point. He literally walked and talked with them.

Its also important to understand YHWH knew they would be willingly deceived by Satan and eat off the tree. His entire plan from the start was the fall and redemption of man. He wanted those who would CHOOSE to follow Him over Satan would inherit way more than just a fleshly existence, He wanted us to freely choose Him so he could righteously make us Gods like Himself, Sons of the Living God. Perfect, righteous, incorruptible beings who love our Father and Savior above all.

But He doesn't want slaves, He wants those who free choose Him.

Mankind had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate off the tree. YHWH desired for man to know good and evil, and willingly and knowingly choose to follow Him over Satan. Thus He could righteously crown us with eternal life and take us as His own children.

What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Knowing what a person will do does not equate to forcing that person to do it.

I know my wife pretty well. A recent issue came up at home regarding some work a contractor is doing for us.

I knew exactly how she was going to respond but in no way did I cause her to respond that way.

For us humans, of course. But when you are God you are much more than a mere observer.

(02-20-2018 10:14 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:54 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

So that you'd be doubly grateful for heaven?

Its a fake argument anyway. YHWH created all, He is righteous in His judgements against sin and depravity.

Just as he is righteous in His grace, love and compassion.

I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

Forget the Adam, Eve and the rest of the world. Have you personally ever done anything wrong?

How can you forget Adam and Eve? This is the foundation story upon which why a Savior was needed in the first place. On top of that, it's the explanation to the Problem of Evil for why people are killed in natural disasters, why we eat meat and why a percentage of small children in 3rd world countries die of disease and starvation. Add in cancer, STDs, pneumonia, auto-immune diseases, etc because they came about because of the decision of Adam and Eve to eat the wrong piece of fruit.

(02-19-2018 06:43 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:03 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 05:01 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 04:55 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 04:36 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  If you would just open the bible and read it, these questions are answered in great detail.

Open minded people are willing to read it and consider it before deciding to dismiss it.

There was no death, pain or misery when we were made and put here. We brought those things into the world by defying and turning our back on our creator.

And if you have read the Word of God and how this ends, you would understand what a glorious outcome awaits those who simply accept Christ as their Savior.

What a simple and easy thing eternal salvation is. You don't have to do a list of things or be perfect, or never sin again, you just have to accept and believe in Christ with all your heart.

Yet many have hardened their hearts because they love themselves and their sin too much.

I grew up Catholic, and believed in god when I was a kid, just like I believed in Santa Claus. I just have seen no reason whatsoever to think something like that exists.

Growing up Catholic is meaningless, they don't even believe in the Bible, much less teach it.

The reality is you have no reason NOT to believe God exists, He is visible in every aspect of creation.

The issues for you isn't really evidence, because you won't even read and examine the evidence you are given. If you have read the bible, you know the evidence in the OT is undeniable on infinite levels.

Your real issue is in your own heart, which is why you won;t even seriously examine the Bible or the evidence. You are scared to acknowledge Him at all because that means you have to acknowledge you will have to answer for your life and your choices at some point.

Self-deception is the easiest deception of all. I know because I fooled and lied to myself about it most of my life.

What about all the stuff in the Old Testament? That is one vicious, angry god. Worse than anything I could ever do.

"All the stuff in the Old Testament..." Anything in particular?

Let's see here, the sexist god who didn't want Lilith to be equal to man, therefore made her a demon or she became one after and he needed to create Eve. What a wonderful god there.

Didn't he make Abraham think he was going to sacrifice his only son? If the god was all knowing, he should have know Abraham would have done it, therefore not need the test in the first place, but he wanted to make man suffer, what a loving god, kill your son and be faithful to me, even though I know what you will do but go ahead and have the mental breakdowns of killing your own flesh and blood.

Didn't he like I don't know drown all man because he gave them free will? Yup he let Noah build an arc and then killed every human. Sounds like a serial killer.

Didn't he kill Job's family because he bored and wanted to make a deal with Satan? But if I make a deal with Satan I go straight to hell. So now god has rules for himself and then his children. What a great example.

Oh he didn't let Moses into the promise land because he hit his staff on a rock. Because god never his temper right? oh wait

He created Satan, he should have known, since he is all knowing, that this angel would fall and then trick his 2nd woman into eating the pomegranate (it was never an apple) therefore letting evil into the world. Maybe next time don't make this Lucifer guy when you know he is being evil. So he purposefully allowed the existence of people like Hitler, Caligula, Nero and all the other evil and make humans suffer. Think about all the children losing their life because a lazy god didn't look into his forethought and stop the creation.

He decided to kill every first born Egyptian even though the Jews weren't slaves and had their own military (don't believe me, how do the sack an Egyptian city right after the leave? How do slaves have a military power?) So they were free to leave, but he decided to put the plagues on Egypt. Great guy there.

Ready to look up some genocide? Joshua 6:20-21, Numbers 31:7-18, and 1 Samuel 15:1-9

Burned down Sodom and Gomorrah because he gave them free will.

And finally Revelations, he is going to kill all the non- believers because he doesn't have the capacity to reveal himself to us.

The bottom line is that animals, mammals, humans can't evolve outside of their DNA scope. There is evolution within the DNA scope. You can cross breed a lion with a tiger you get a liger, it is still a cat. Billions of times humans have bred, had babies, every time it is a human baby. It is scientifically impossible for a single organism inside of a rock or in the ocean to evolve into a human being. Intelligent design, God.

(02-19-2018 02:23 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Even if there was a god, you'd have to ask why he made nature so cruel.

the nonduality of the universe, i.e god. without bad there can't be good

(02-20-2018 10:34 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-20-2018 10:17 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 09:38 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-19-2018 07:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I don’t understand how Adam and Eve could have turned the whole world to **** simply for eating the wrong fruit.

You think the world is a tough place now, just wait until He removes His restraining Spirit from the world and fully hands it over to Satan and man in the end times. You personally live better right now than 99% of all humans ever born.

What other rules were they given other than don't eat off this tree? Its not like Adam and Eve didn't know God existed, the knew Him personally at that point. He literally walked and talked with them.

Its also important to understand YHWH knew they would be willingly deceived by Satan and eat off the tree. His entire plan from the start was the fall and redemption of man. He wanted those who would CHOOSE to follow Him over Satan would inherit way more than just a fleshly existence, He wanted us to freely choose Him so he could righteously make us Gods like Himself, Sons of the Living God. Perfect, righteous, incorruptible beings who love our Father and Savior above all.

But He doesn't want slaves, He wants those who free choose Him.

Mankind had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate off the tree. YHWH desired for man to know good and evil, and willingly and knowingly choose to follow Him over Satan. Thus He could righteously crown us with eternal life and take us as His own children.

What you are saying is that God intentionally planned for a world with evil. He knew that his creation was going to sin before their creation, and he was cool with that. You would be the first person who believed the Bible as inspired by God teaches that evil was part of the plan. Every other orthodox Christian priest/preacher I ever heard taught that God did not plan a world with evil.

Knowing what a person will do does not equate to forcing that person to do it.

I know my wife pretty well. A recent issue came up at home regarding some work a contractor is doing for us.

I knew exactly how she was going to respond but in no way did I cause her to respond that way.

For us humans, of course. But when you are God you are much more than a mere observer.

True. But we still have free will.

Knowing what a person will do is not the same as forcing the person to do it.