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Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:49 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  For the last time, no one is adding St. Mary's. They add as much value long term as St. Mary's High School (pick one).

MWC only has 11 BB schools in it at this time. Thus what is stopping it from being greedy and grabbing 4-5 from the WCC and pushing ahead to a 16 team basketball conference?

Gonzaga by themselves would work as a 12th clean and simple. If its Gonzaga & BYU basketball a 14th would be needed.

One name not thrown about in this thread that could work as a 14th is Denver since they would work nicely for travel for the Front Range schools.

Divisions in basketball.

West (Gonzaga, Boise St) w/Nevada, UNLV, SJSU, Fresno, SDSU
Mountain (BYU, Denver) w/ Utah St, Wyo, Colorado St, AFA, New Mex

BYU does a scheduling agreement in FB with MWC and helps with bowl games.

No foray into Texas but creating a doubling down in the Mountain region.
03-01-2018 12:27 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
Why do people here keep mentioning FB adds? Everything i've read makes it seem like this is about BBall expansion.
03-01-2018 12:28 AM
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NotANewbie Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Why do people here keep mentioning FB adds? Everything i've read makes it seem like this is about BBall expansion.

Could it be that some attractive basketball schools have football programs that would need a home??????

Seems pretty transparent.
03-01-2018 12:31 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:31 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 12:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Why do people here keep mentioning FB adds? Everything i've read makes it seem like this is about BBall expansion.

Could it be that some attractive basketball schools have football programs that would need a home??????

Seems pretty transparent.

Not a lot of them. It's about making the conference more attractive next TV contract. Adding the 3 best BBall teams from the WCC does that. Adding NM St or Rice FB doesn't.
03-01-2018 12:34 AM
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puck swami Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  [quote='esayem' pid='15117750' dateline='1519878933']

Backfill for the WCC gets interesting. Seattle has been blackballed from joining by Gonzaga. If the Zags are gone that removes the objection. Grand Canyon may have a chance at the WCC since the WCC is kind of limited on members.

A lot of hope out west tonight.


Denver would love a WCC invite. It's a private, top 100 school (#86) in USNWR, 94 % graduation rate, $35 athletic million budget, great facilities with the top non-football athletic dept. in D-I for nine of the last 10 years. Basketball is improving (3rd place in Summit league this year). Current NCAA Champs in Hockey, Top 5 in men's lacrosse, excellent soccer and other olympic sports.
03-01-2018 12:34 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #66
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
to me if it's to a point where Thompson would be talking, it's really far along. I think the odds are real strong it happens before next year.

So going forward we probably see-
P5, Big East, AAC, MWC and then everyone else. Huge gulf between those 8 and the next group(which would be A10, MVC maybe, and that's really about it).
03-01-2018 12:37 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:08 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 12:05 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 06:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  That article has an extremely rosy MWC spin. Gonzaga's RPI is "dragged down" by the bottom of the WCC? The answer to that problem is not the bottom of the MWC: CSU at 215, AFA at 239, and SJSU at 304 is an extremely small "improvement" over Loyola at 260, Portland at 275, and Pepperdine at 325. "Assuming San Diego State, UNLV and New Mexico can return to their past levels" -- C'mon. They're all struggling now. Assuming that all of them will somehow start to win every year as much as they did in their best two or three years out of the past 20 or 30 years is not a reasonable assumption, it's just a dream. The best argument that you could make for the MWC over the WCC is that most of the MWC's bottom feeders at least have the ambition to become much better in men's hoops at some point in the future, whereas I don't know that you could say that about Portland or Pepperdine.

But if this ever did happen, then it would be another potential extinction event for the WAC. Seattle would undoubtedly move to the WCC if they have to replace the Zags.

Also, I know that we should never expect anyone to "do the right thing" in college sports, but if the MWC is really looking to add new members to beef up their basketball, NMSU should be on the list.


The key isnt the bottom of either conference. The key is the top. It allows 2 conferences with narrow tops to increase the number of quality RPI games during the conference season.

I just talked about this in the G5 reorganization thread. The point I was making it it makes sense for the top non-power basketball schools (especially the ones that dont play football) to coalesce as it will improve their "at large" chances by improving their conference schedule. It makes sense for the top programs (like BYU, VCU, Wichita, Gonzaga, etc) to join up with the best non-power league in thier side of the country. Say the top 2 or 3 non-football programs in the east join the AAC. The top two or 3 non-football playing basketball programs in the west would gravitate to the MW. Its the best way for the top non-power basketball programs to avoid a conference schedule that drags down thier resume.

To add to that it is pretty much proven that a Top 20 program which moves from one of those conferences will maintain it moving to the G5 conference. For example Wichita moving its ranked program directly to the AAC. A direct shot in the arm for the AAC.

But from the perspective of Wichita or Gonzaga its about ensuring long term survival of their athletic department being tied to an FBS conference. Conferences with national TV deals because they have FBS football and legitimate futures.

Is it time for the MAC to also think about its little mid-major region about possibly going to 16 in basketball to become multibid? SLU, Bradley, Loyola, Valpo to double down in the Chicago market? It could prevent Buffalo from leaving some day.

St Louis and Dayton would seem like nice choices for the MAC if they were interested. If you do that, then jumping back to 14 with WKU and MTSU looks like the next logical move. Or perhaps, quietly put the 4 team move together and then announce it. You have a pretty interesting basketball conference at that point---and you've also probably given football a boost as well.

SLU actually talked to the MAC about joining back in 2003. They refuse to join the MVC because they perceive it to be too local. Perhaps a MAC raid in the Chicago region could get them interested because it would be perceived as above the MVC when tied to an FBS conference in the MAC.

SLU also hasn't been that competitive in the A10 either which may sway an administration to make a move.

Dayton is a much different situation. They have done much better in the A10 than SLU on the court. They are in an adjacent state to Pennsylvania as opposed to being an outlier. They'd take the AAC but not the MAC where they've always felt too good for.

That is yet another reason for SLU to look at the MAC. If Dayton were to leave they would be even more isolated than before.
03-01-2018 12:39 AM
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Post: #68
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:52 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 07:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  BYU's independence is what gives them a more or less level playing field against Utah in recruiting. They aren't coming back to the MWC any time soon.

Independence is not working.

[Image: 5720B2F2-C243-4F3C-915E-1BDCCE532EE4_zpskhk10ije.jpeg]

[Image: F5A57E94-203C-4EE1-9D47-4E64C829CF16_zpsqicmclbs.jpeg]

If they go back to the MWC or even the AAC, they are no longer even arguably on steady ground with Utah unless they are the reason the AAC becomes a new power conference. Literally the last thing that would separate them from other non-traditional power conference schools is the LDS mission and its help in recruiting and fan base.
03-01-2018 12:40 AM
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Post: #69
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 11:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't see them going west. Short of the rest of Texas falling into the Gulf, they'd be on island every bit as much Hawai'i in the MWC.

Wouldnt matter. The MW wold be a huge conference upgrade for Rice--especailly from a TV standpoint.

If Rice were located in Lubbock or El Paso. They're better off where they are though honestly they should be spending to be in the traditional power conferences or dropping to FCS/D-III. I just don't get their current M.O. they aren't with any academic or many regional peers. Rather than holding on to their legacy as a power school they're sinking like a rock.
03-01-2018 12:47 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:34 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 12:31 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 12:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Why do people here keep mentioning FB adds? Everything i've read makes it seem like this is about BBall expansion.

Could it be that some attractive basketball schools have football programs that would need a home??????

Seems pretty transparent.

Not a lot of them. It's about making the conference more attractive next TV contract. Adding the 3 best BBall teams from the WCC does that. Adding NM St or Rice FB doesn't.

I tend to agree.

NMSU maybe has a shot at CUSA since they may be the only FBS team willing to join that conference.
03-01-2018 12:47 AM
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
The MAC delusions in this thread are insanity.
03-01-2018 12:53 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:47 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:55 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I still don't see them going west. Short of the rest of Texas falling into the Gulf, they'd be on island every bit as much Hawai'i in the MWC.

Wouldnt matter. The MW wold be a huge conference upgrade for Rice--especailly from a TV standpoint.

If Rice were located in Lubbock or El Paso. They're better off where they are though honestly they should be spending to be in the traditional power conferences or dropping to FCS/D-III. I just don't get their current M.O. they aren't with any academic or many regional peers. Rather than holding on to their legacy as a power school they're sinking like a rock.

Rice is like a lot of CUSA schools, hanging on to AAC/MWC hope. They did throw up a new 30 million dollar football building a few years ago.

The tiny enrollment thing is really killing them though. I think its one of the reasons they haven't found a spot somewhere yet.
03-01-2018 12:54 AM
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
Massive props to DavidSt who called this scenario a year ago (to the heckling of many).
03-01-2018 12:58 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:53 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  The MAC delusions in this thread are insanity.

One of the critiques of the MAC is that it hasn't been as good as the MVC. The MVC doesn't play FBS football and has some very good basketball school in it.

From my view, the MAC does not have saturation of the Midwest market at the Mid-Major level like the A10 has along the East Coast. Illinois the key state in the Midwest only has 1 MAC school in NIU. The MVC has 4 of them (SIU, Bradley, ISU and Loyola) making it the mid-major conference for Illinois.

If the MAC had the most Illinois mid major schools could it flip basketball status with the MVC? It would at least end the discussion of MAC programs wanting to be in the MVC and promote commitment to the MAC by some who are looking over their shoulder at the AAC.

If the MAC added SLU, Bradley, Loyola and IL-Chicago what does the MVC do at that point? It takes a big bite out of the Horizon League too. MAC at 16 schools would be the primary mid-major conference in Illinois.

WKU/MTSU wouldn't do anything for the MAC to disrupt the mid major hierarchy like raiding the MVC would.
03-01-2018 01:16 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:58 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Massive props to DavidSt who called this scenario a year ago (to the heckling of many).
Hasn't he called every scenario though?

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03-01-2018 01:17 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 12:37 AM)stever20 Wrote:  to me if it's to a point where Thompson would be talking, it's really far along. I think the odds are real strong it happens before next year.

So going forward we probably see-
P5, Big East, AAC, MWC and then everyone else. Huge gulf between those 8 and the next group(which would be A10, MVC maybe, and that's really about it).

This is a really solid rumor no doubt. Should pick up speculation.

How much it impacts the MWC overall it depends what the full move is. Is it just Gonzaga BB or also BYU?

A10 is the undisputed top level mid major conference for the east coast. MVC is contending for that title with the MAC. MVC owns Illinois and the MAC owns Ohio.
03-01-2018 01:28 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 06:22 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga would be a great counter by the MWC to Wichita State for the AAC. I would jump on it if they are serious. That woudl help scheduling with a 12th school, and really help RPI.

Who are the other five? I can probably guess two for sure, New Mexico State (they ask everyone frequently, as they wait for an opening), and Grand Canyon (they are looking around for the future). One wonders if Rice and UTEP who were the last two schools looked at seriously, probably also touched base. None of these four I just mentioned expects much traction, more a "we're here and interested when your ready' sort of calling card. But that is speculation. But it does makes you wonder who else left a calling card.

From a MWC perspective, if Gonzaga is serious, I'd jump on it. No other school could raise the profile and get the MWC recruiting and performance back to 2 or 3 bid NCAA status.

I agree with Stu. This would be a good move for the MWC. Like the AAC, this would put the MWC in a better position when they renegotiate their TV deal with ESPN. 12 for football, 12 for basketball...it makes sense. Neither conference wants to be in the CUSA position. A 14 team one bid basketball conference, splitting a base football playoff share of $10 million between 14 schools, with a reduced TV deal of about $200,000 per school.

The fallout from a move would be interesting. The WCC would be weakened. Do they add another school or stay at nine? Seattle could be a possibility to get to ten. That hurts the WAC. Denver is also a possibility. That hurts the Summit. The WCC is not the same conference without Gonzaga and their ESPN TV money and exposure will be reduced significantly.
03-01-2018 01:52 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 01:52 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 06:22 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gonzaga would be a great counter by the MWC to Wichita State for the AAC. I would jump on it if they are serious. That woudl help scheduling with a 12th school, and really help RPI.

Who are the other five? I can probably guess two for sure, New Mexico State (they ask everyone frequently, as they wait for an opening), and Grand Canyon (they are looking around for the future). One wonders if Rice and UTEP who were the last two schools looked at seriously, probably also touched base. None of these four I just mentioned expects much traction, more a "we're here and interested when your ready' sort of calling card. But that is speculation. But it does makes you wonder who else left a calling card.

From a MWC perspective, if Gonzaga is serious, I'd jump on it. No other school could raise the profile and get the MWC recruiting and performance back to 2 or 3 bid NCAA status.

I agree with Stu. This would be a good move for the MWC. Like the AAC, this would put the MWC in a better position when they renegotiate their TV deal with ESPN. 12 for football, 12 for basketball...it makes sense. Neither conference wants to be in the CUSA position. A 14 team one bid basketball conference, splitting a base football playoff share of $10 million between 14 schools, with a reduced TV deal of about $200,000 per school.

The fallout from a move would be interesting. The WCC would be weakened. Do they add another school or stay at nine? Seattle could be a possibility to get to ten. That hurts the WAC. Denver is also a possibility. That hurts the Summit. The WCC is not the same conference without Gonzaga and their ESPN TV money and exposure will be reduced significantly.

The obvious move for the WCC is Seattle for a 10th. Gonzaga has been blocking them.

The bigger question is what does BYU do here? They could try to hang in the WCC or go for a different arrangement.
03-01-2018 02:22 AM
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Post: #79
RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(03-01-2018 01:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 12:37 AM)stever20 Wrote:  to me if it's to a point where Thompson would be talking, it's really far along. I think the odds are real strong it happens before next year.

So going forward we probably see-
P5, Big East, AAC, MWC and then everyone else. Huge gulf between those 8 and the next group(which would be A10, MVC maybe, and that's really about it).

This is a really solid rumor no doubt. Should pick up speculation.

How much it impacts the MWC overall it depends what the full move is. Is it just Gonzaga BB or also BYU?

A10 is the undisputed top level mid major conference for the east coast. MVC is contending for that title with the MAC. MVC owns Illinois and the MAC owns Ohio.

I wouldn't be so sure the MAC owns Ohio. Other than Ohio's recent fluke NCAA Tournament wins (okay, 2012 was solid, they almost made a legit Elite 8 run), when is the last time an Ohio team made any noise in basketball? Kent State over 15 years ago?

Regardless, none of the mid-majors own the Midwest.
03-01-2018 02:48 AM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Gonzaga and the MWC have talked?
(02-28-2018 10:31 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:  This puts the WAC in a crisis mode as Seattle and possibly GCU could be gone to the WCC. More DII callups now do not do any good.

Hasn't the WAC been in crisis mode since at least 2011?

This crisis is existential. The previous ones were merely ones of power.

The WAC has been in crisis before, but there were always teams to carry on so it didn't lose its autobid.
03-01-2018 03:49 AM
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