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Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
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Brookes Owl Online
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Post: #21
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
I think the national security risk is vastly overstated. We have mutual defense treaties with the two largest suppliers of steel to the US. And even the Department of Commerce acknowledges the DOD requires only about 3% of US production.
03-05-2018 08:56 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 08:32 PM)Paul M Wrote:  It's a military and national security issue today. Wont be tomorrow (next week, next month, whenever) when Trump drops it.

If if that happens we lost absolutely nothing. We have 800 billion dollar trade deficit. Basically, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by changing our trade positions.
03-05-2018 08:56 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 08:32 PM)Paul M Wrote:  It's a military and national security issue today. Wont be tomorrow (next week, next month, whenever) when Trump drops it.
If if that happens we lost absolutely nothing. We have 800 billion dollar trade deficit. Basically, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by changing our trade positions.

The really amazing thing is that we have this huge trade deficit while being one of the least involved nations in international trade. We import, but we don't export, is what those statistics, taken together, would say.
03-05-2018 08:59 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 08:59 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 08:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 08:32 PM)Paul M Wrote:  It's a military and national security issue today. Wont be tomorrow (next week, next month, whenever) when Trump drops it.
If if that happens we lost absolutely nothing. We have 800 billion dollar trade deficit. Basically, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by changing our trade positions.

The really amazing thing is that we have this huge trade deficit while being one of the least involved nations in international trade. We import, but we don't export, is what those statistics, taken together, would say.

What it says is we dont manufacture anything anymore---which is what any employment report will tell you. By the way--thats why your middle class is shrinking. Manufacturing jobs are traditionally the highest paying blue collar jobs and they have the largest "ripple effect" on the economy. Its also one of the reasons the US economy cant seem to grow at a rate faster than 3% despite nearly 10 years of liquidity infusions from the Fed. If you really want to "make America great again"---your going to have to start rebuilding the manufacturing and mining sectors.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 09:05 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-05-2018 09:03 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 04:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Global trade war is not a good idea.

But threatening global trade war to force these people to the table to stop their unfair trade practices is a good idea.

Which is Trump up to? No clue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Right. Almost everybody is protectionist but us. We need to level the playing field.
03-05-2018 09:49 PM
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Post: #26
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 08:56 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  I think the national security risk is vastly overstated. We have mutual defense treaties with the two largest suppliers of steel to the US. And even the Department of Commerce acknowledges the DOD requires only about 3% of US production.

Europe can't be relied on in a war regardless of defense treaties. In any event, ocean transport may not be reliable.

Even Canada isn't guaranteed to be reliable if they don't agree on the war.
03-05-2018 09:51 PM
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olliebaba Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
Just today European auto makers were telling the EU not to get into a trade war with the US. They know that if that happens people won't be buying their cars in the US...and we won't. It'll be a combination of US nationalism and some sort of boycott by people looking for cars.
03-05-2018 10:13 PM
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banker Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
The U.S. Military requires 3% of US production during times of relative peace. What percentage did they require during WWII?

I'll help a little. The U.S. Currently produces about 8 million tons of steel a month. During WWII the military consumed 788 million tons of steel over a six year period. In other words, we currently produce 8 and during WWII we used about 11, or about 137% of current production.

Due to,aging factories it's not like we can just jump production to 15 million tons a month. U.S. Steel is currently spending a bunch on modernization, but it's a three year project and they have to be profitable to make it happen.
03-06-2018 12:04 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 12:04 AM)banker Wrote:  The U.S. Military requires 3% of US production during times of relative peace. What percentage did they require during WWII?

I'll help a little. The U.S. Currently produces about 8 million tons of steel a month. During WWII the military consumed 788 million tons of steel over a six year period. In other words, we currently produce 8 and during WWII we used about 11, or about 137% of current production.

Due to,aging factories it's not like we can just jump production to 15 million tons a month. U.S. Steel is currently spending a bunch on modernization, but it's a three year project and they have to be profitable to make it happen.

Exactly. We dont really want to have to rely on anyone else for essential materials. A healthy steel/aluminum sector in good for America. Frankly, its just one step in the right direction. We need to bring a lot of manufacturing back to the US. Its simple as that. Those were the jobs that a high school grad could raise a family on.

Shipping manufacturing overseas is shrinking the US middle class and shipping 800 billion overseas every year is chipping away at our wealth. Just do the math. Eight hundred billion in wealth is leaving the country every year. Thats about 4% of the entire US economy every year....and it would be waaay worse if we hadn't figured out how to frac oil. 04-cheers
03-06-2018 12:16 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)Kronke Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Good luck stopping Globalism.

We'll never surrender our country or its people to the false song of globalism.


Well, "we" as in you and I will not, but the bible is clear there is a final world government coming with the antichrist as the final world ruler. And all nations will join up with him.

America will join up with the globalists when the time comes. It will likely be a global crisis that ushers it in. The nations of the world are 90% of the way there now, it should be obvious to everyone. But most are spiritually blinded or already totally on board with it.

Right now we are having our last stand against them imo. Thanks to Trump, Brexit and some other things. Its just a temporary slowdown though.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 02:18 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
03-06-2018 12:35 AM
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Post: #31
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 04:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Global trade war is not a good idea.

But threatening global trade war to force these people to the table to stop their unfair trade practices is a good idea.

Which is Trump up to? No clue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It's a game of poker with serious consequences depending on who wins. Either way it will upset the status quo on how we trade and that uncertainty will wreak havoc on the markets. Some will benefit but many will be hurt by it. My industry buys steel and we are nervous about the availability and lead times for steel products coming up.
03-06-2018 07:27 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 07:27 AM)JTiger Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 04:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Global trade war is not a good idea.

But threatening global trade war to force these people to the table to stop their unfair trade practices is a good idea.

Which is Trump up to? No clue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It's a game of poker with serious consequences depending on who wins. Either way it will upset the status quo on how we trade and that uncertainty will wreak havoc on the markets. Some will benefit but many will be hurt by it. My industry buys steel and we are nervous about the availability and lead times for steel products coming up.

supply chain management should be.....

that "concern" is XACLY! what happened ~15 yrs ago when china started building empty cities....

supply dried up and raw mat'l costs increased to the point where we had to implement surcharges to keep the doors open...

from the design engineering side, I was tasked with unrealistic redesigns to reduce material costs....

I don't miss those days....

this is one of many reasons I'm opposed to this one in specifics....
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 07:50 AM by stinkfist.)
03-06-2018 07:49 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 07:49 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 07:27 AM)JTiger Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 04:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Global trade war is not a good idea.

But threatening global trade war to force these people to the table to stop their unfair trade practices is a good idea.

Which is Trump up to? No clue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It's a game of poker with serious consequences depending on who wins. Either way it will upset the status quo on how we trade and that uncertainty will wreak havoc on the markets. Some will benefit but many will be hurt by it. My industry buys steel and we are nervous about the availability and lead times for steel products coming up.

supply chain management should be.....

that "concern" is XACLY! what happened ~15 yrs ago when china started building empty cities....

supply dried up and raw mat'l costs increased to the point where we had to implement surcharges to keep the doors open...

from the design engineering side, I was tasked with unrealistic redesigns to reduce material costs....

I don't miss those days....

this is one of many reasons I'm opposed to this one in specifics....

The supply of steel isn’t going anywhere. It’s just going to be more expensive in the US—making US steel more competitive. This may crimp demand for major US projects with lots of steel—but steel shortages are not going to be an issue. It’s a tariff—not an embargo.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 10:04 AM by Attackcoog.)
03-06-2018 10:00 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 10:00 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 07:49 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 07:27 AM)JTiger Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 04:31 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Global trade war is not a good idea.

But threatening global trade war to force these people to the table to stop their unfair trade practices is a good idea.

Which is Trump up to? No clue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

It's a game of poker with serious consequences depending on who wins. Either way it will upset the status quo on how we trade and that uncertainty will wreak havoc on the markets. Some will benefit but many will be hurt by it. My industry buys steel and we are nervous about the availability and lead times for steel products coming up.

supply chain management should be.....

that "concern" is XACLY! what happened ~15 yrs ago when china started building empty cities....

supply dried up and raw mat'l costs increased to the point where we had to implement surcharges to keep the doors open...

from the design engineering side, I was tasked with unrealistic redesigns to reduce material costs....

I don't miss those days....

this is one of many reasons I'm opposed to this one in specifics....

The supply of steel isn’t going anywhere. It’s just going to be more expensive in the US—making US steel more competitive. This may crimp demand for major US projects with lots of steel—but steel shortages are not going toe be an issue.

the end result is the same......that was the point....

there are different ways to create the same problem for the end user....

this is where artificially inflating prices is a dangerous game to play....
03-06-2018 10:08 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
In the ranges that they are looking at, a 15% VAT would accomplish virtually the same thing, and would not run afoul of international law or subject us to retaliatory tariffs that appear to be on the horizon.

This is a really stupid move by Trump. Do a consumption tax instead and we could balance the budget, reduce income taxes, implement a subsistence-level guaranteed basic income, AND institute a Bismarck universal private health care system. All of those things.
03-06-2018 10:37 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 10:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In the ranges that they are looking at, a 15% VAT would accomplish virtually the same thing, and would not run afoul of international law or subject us to retaliatory tariffs that appear to be on the horizon.

This is a really stupid move by Trump. Do a consumption tax instead and we could balance the budget, reduce income taxes, implement a subsistence-level guaranteed basic income, AND institute a Bismarck universal private health care system. All of those things.

XACLY!
03-06-2018 10:50 AM
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Post: #37
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 10:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In the ranges that they are looking at, a 15% VAT would accomplish virtually the same thing, and would not run afoul of international law or subject us to retaliatory tariffs that appear to be on the horizon.

This is a really stupid move by Trump. Do a consumption tax instead and we could balance the budget, reduce income taxes, implement a subsistence-level guaranteed basic income, AND institute a Bismarck universal private health care system. All of those things.

Is it a stupid move when the entity that would have to pass it into law won't do it because it might dilute their power via taxation??
03-06-2018 11:00 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 11:00 AM)Crebman Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 10:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In the ranges that they are looking at, a 15% VAT would accomplish virtually the same thing, and would not run afoul of international law or subject us to retaliatory tariffs that appear to be on the horizon.
This is a really stupid move by Trump. Do a consumption tax instead and we could balance the budget, reduce income taxes, implement a subsistence-level guaranteed basic income, AND institute a Bismarck universal private health care system. All of those things.
Is it a stupid move when the entity that would have to pass it into law won't do it because it might dilute their power via taxation??

That's the reason it's not happening. If I can't pass out the goodies in the form of selective tax breaks, how can I get my re-election funded?

But somebody needs to start putting country over team and principle over person. Like you (I think), I'm afraid I don't see it really happening.
03-06-2018 11:14 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-06-2018 12:35 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:39 PM)Kronke Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Good luck stopping Globalism.

We'll never surrender our country or its people to the false song of globalism.


Well, "we" as in you and I will not, but the bible is clear there is a final world government coming with the antichrist as the final world rule. And all nations will join up with him.

America will join up with the globalists when the time comes. It will likely be a global crisis that ushers it in. The nations of the world are 90% of the way there now, it should be obvious to everyone. But most are spiritually blinded or already totally on board with it.

Right now we are having our last stand against them imo. Thanks to Trump, Brexit and some other things. Its just a temporary slowdown though.

""we" as in you and I will not" ........ I'm going with you. I don't want anything to do with the pain and suffering that comes along with the antichrist's rule. The way I read it you/I will be gone before anyone knows who he is.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 11:44 AM by ODU BLUE.)
03-06-2018 11:42 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Globalist Having A Meltdown Over Steel
(03-05-2018 03:34 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 03:17 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  Globalist Spin Doctors Have Hit The MSM including FoxNews and Fox Business

Trump is overturning the establishment’s apple cart. For decades we’ve seen that what is good for the globalist is a disaster for the American worker.

http://dystopiausa.com/bankers-economist...p-tariffs/

Good luck stopping Globalism. They tried that once before with Hawley-Smoot. How did that turn out?

Glad you got your talking points Tom.
03-06-2018 11:49 AM
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