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I predict both freshmen will be more productive than Peyton Pervier. Until I see them play against D1 competition, until I am satisfied that they'll work hard, stay out of trouble, and pass their drug tests AND until I am satisfied that Jeff Jones will allow them to see the court, that's as far as I'll go.

(06-05-2018 01:54 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 12:28 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Just simply wanted to see if you were committed to your comment or if you had merely overstated it as sometimes happens to us all.

It isn't solely about freshman stats in determining what skills a player had coming into college although that certainly factors into it. Some players will adjust to the college game and to their role on the team quicker than others will, even if they are of comparable skills. That alone can skew what their stats would otherwise be. Adjusting to what your new coach wants you to do can make you shy about putting the ball on the floor, shooting the ball, etc. even if you felt that you could do it at the time. They aren't just adjusting to the game itself, but are also adjusting to a lot of other things at that same time such as college courses, sometimes still having to decide on a major, living in a new environment, making new friends, new coaches, new work out regimens, adjusting to the rigors of travel while keeping up in class, new eating habits, having to decide about new temptations that may be offered to them (drugs, alcohol), etc..

Lee came to the program with plenty of skills, and I think that you probably just forgot about him or maybe forgot that he came in after Laughton did.

Lee prior to his start at ODU -

IN FINLAND: Played for the Finnish under-20 team where he was averaging 17.1 points and 4.5 rebounds...Averaged 10.0 points and 4.5 rebounds Per game for the city team of Korihait which had seven players averaging double figures. He scored 28 points and 25 points in his last two games of the season. Averaged 18.1 points and 8.3 rebounds for the Finnish under-18 team in 2005...He Scored 30 points with eight rebounds against Hungary as his season high. ..He shot .566 from the floor...

I didn't forget about Lee. In fact, I went back to look at his stats to confirm that his freshman year was as average as I remember it being. I don't care what he did in Finland. The top level of basketball in Finland is about as competitive as many of our local districts.

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You cannot look at stats alone. When Lee was in the game his freshman year, Dahi or Valdas were the inside focal points for the offense. We have no idea how good or mediocre Lee was as a freshman because in his role, he was not asked to produce offense. The two freshmen coming in will have a different role because we have no other inside presence. I am quite confident that Dahi/Valdas/Lee will prove to be the far more productive frontcourt to whatever hodgepodge we throw together in the coming season.

(06-05-2018 02:59 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 01:54 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 12:28 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Just simply wanted to see if you were committed to your comment or if you had merely overstated it as sometimes happens to us all.

It isn't solely about freshman stats in determining what skills a player had coming into college although that certainly factors into it. Some players will adjust to the college game and to their role on the team quicker than others will, even if they are of comparable skills. That alone can skew what their stats would otherwise be. Adjusting to what your new coach wants you to do can make you shy about putting the ball on the floor, shooting the ball, etc. even if you felt that you could do it at the time. They aren't just adjusting to the game itself, but are also adjusting to a lot of other things at that same time such as college courses, sometimes still having to decide on a major, living in a new environment, making new friends, new coaches, new work out regimens, adjusting to the rigors of travel while keeping up in class, new eating habits, having to decide about new temptations that may be offered to them (drugs, alcohol), etc..

Lee came to the program with plenty of skills, and I think that you probably just forgot about him or maybe forgot that he came in after Laughton did.

Lee prior to his start at ODU -

IN FINLAND: Played for the Finnish under-20 team where he was averaging 17.1 points and 4.5 rebounds...Averaged 10.0 points and 4.5 rebounds Per game for the city team of Korihait which had seven players averaging double figures. He scored 28 points and 25 points in his last two games of the season. Averaged 18.1 points and 8.3 rebounds for the Finnish under-18 team in 2005...He Scored 30 points with eight rebounds against Hungary as his season high. ..He shot .566 from the floor...

I didn't forget about Lee. In fact, I went back to look at his stats to confirm that his freshman year was as average as I remember it being. I don't care what he did in Finland. The top level of basketball in Finland is about as competitive as many of our local districts.

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You cannot look at stats alone. When Lee was in the game his freshman year, Dahi or Valdas were the inside focal points for the offense. We have no idea how good or mediocre Lee was as a freshman because in his role, he was not asked to produce offense. The two freshmen coming in will have a different role because we have no other inside presence. I am quite confident that Dahi/Valdas/Lee will prove to be the far more productive frontcourt to whatever hodgepodge we throw together in the coming season.

Was Lee asked to defer to Dani/VV when rebounds came his way? Was he asked to allow them exclusive access to blocks? Did Blaine ask him to shoot a paltry .600 from the line as to not show them up? Give it up, guys. There's no argument that proves Lee was anything more than an average freshman big man.

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(06-05-2018 03:20 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Was Lee asked to defer to Dani/VV when rebounds came his way? Was he asked to allow them exclusive access to blocks? Did Blaine ask him to shoot a paltry .600 from the line as to not show them up? Give it up, guys. There's no argument that proves Lee was anything more than an average freshman big man.

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I appreciate the spunk you have to support your rhetoric, but that's just weak. If Lee was just your average run of the mill big man coming in then ODU sure has dropped the ball for the most part since then by not getting more average big guys just like him.

(06-05-2018 01:23 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 01:09 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 12:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Lee wasn't a great player until his junior year. Obviously, I would still take his freshman year type season from Ezikpe.
Lee tends to get a little overrated on this board. His biggest problem was that he didn't rebound for crap. His Jr. and Sr. season were still very good because of his scoring ability. But, as a soph he only shot 48% from the field and grabbed less than 11% of rebounds. He did score 17 points per game but with hardly any rebounds and a a low efficiency. His JR year he raised to 54%, which was good and 55% his senior year.

Loughton was more of an impact player from the start and was a stud as a soph. (shot 49%, but with 3 pointers and rebounds)

I'm not saying that you are wrong about Lee regarding rebounding, but I do feel that it is important to take into account that he played on some ODU teams where I believe that rebounding was considered a strength of the team. During his ODU career he played along side of other players that were good rebounders for their position such as Vasylaus, Dahi, Adams, Hassell, Carter, Cooper, Bazemore, and Finney. That said, he did produce an 11 rebound performance as a freshman in the biggest game of the year while coming off the bench against Butler.

I too would take Laughton over Lee if I had to choose between them, but would love to have both of them again as freshmen at ODU, especially if we could have them both at the same time.

His soph year, he had the 6th best rebounding rate for a guy that was our primary big man. Hassell, Finney, Harris, Adams, and Carter all rebounded better than him and our point guard (Brandon Johnson) almost grabbed the same about of rebounds. His junior year he was 5th. His senior year, he was 8th behind Hassell, Cooper, Carter, Neely, Wright, Bazemore, and Finney.

They is zero reason Illiadis and DeLancy should grab almost as many rebounds as our 6-9 center. For comparison sake, he grabbed rebounds at the same rate as BJ Stith did this past season.

Gerald lee was second team all caa as a sophomore in a much much tougher league.

Then he was back to back first team all caa.

No, he didn’t see the court as much with Dahi and VV playing ahead of him and eating up his minutes and touches but he was a great backup and had a double double in the NCAA tourney against butler.

I’ll wager neither of our freshmen goes on to put up back to back first team CUSA performances nor finishes in the top 10 players in the league 3 years in a row.

You ladies are getting totally out of control, please calm down.

(06-05-2018 03:20 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Was Lee asked to defer to Dani/VV when rebounds came his way? Was he asked to allow them exclusive access to blocks? Did Blaine ask him to shoot a paltry .600 from the line as to not show them up? Give it up, guys. There's no argument that proves Lee was anything more than an average freshman big man.

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It must be the home court disadvantage that kept his numbers down.

Wasn't that the knock against BT and JJ? Who were their freshmen big men recruits since Lee graduated? Ross, McEwen, Larson, Taylor, and Carver. Who among them were average? An argument could be made that Taylor and Ross were average big men and both produced as much as Lee their respective freshmen years. The rest of the recruits were below average to awful.

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We're talking specifically about Lee's freshman year. Keep up.

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(06-05-2018 06:59 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  We're talking specifically about Lee's freshman year. Keep up.

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And we’ve explained to you multiple times that just because he wasn’t a focal point of the offense doesn’t mean he wasn’t very talented or that anyone with eyeballs couldn’t see what was in his future.

You’re stating these kids will be better than Lee right away based on what a referee told you and based on stats that are meaningless without CONTEXT.

I’d tell you to keep up but we all know that’s not going to happen lol.

Lee was the only true center on the team. He played with two stretch 4s and that was the extent of the depth at those two positions. He only played with one of those two guys at a time and was the primary post up player when he was in the game. Quit trying to rewrite history. Lee wasn't an impact freshman no matter what "context" you contrive to try and skew his contribution.

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Lee didn't set the bar very high for these two incoming frosh. If we get 5 points and 4 rebounds out of each of them, they'll surpass Lee's contribution.

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(06-05-2018 07:32 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Lee didn't set the bar very high for these two incoming frosh. If we get 5 points and 4 rebounds out of each of them, they'll surpass Lee's contribution.

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If they don’t we will be in a sh.t ton of trouble because we have no one else who will.

One of them will most likely be starting or playing significant minutes off the bench so they should easily surpass Lee’s stats as a freshmen.

That simply doesn’t mean they are or will be better players, end of discussion.

Besides they don’t need to replace Lee’s freshman production, they need to replace Porter’s junior production and Stith’s senior production and that isn’t going to happen. That’s the big problem going into year 6.

(06-05-2018 08:20 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 07:32 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Lee didn't set the bar very high for these two incoming frosh. If we get 5 points and 4 rebounds out of each of them, they'll surpass Lee's contribution.

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If they don’t we will be in a sh.t ton of trouble because we have no one else who will.

One of them will most likely be starting or playing significant minutes off the bench so they should easily surpass Lee’s stats as a freshmen.

That simply doesn’t mean they are or will be better players, end of discussion.

Besides they don’t need to replace Lee’s freshman production, they need to replace Porter’s junior production and Stith’s senior production and that isn’t going to happen. That’s the big problem going into year 6.

It's hopeless Razor. The guy simply wants to argue no matter what. Don't forget his infamous words ... Gerald Lee was just an average big guy ODU recruited. And to think ODU had to go all the way to Finland just to get that!!!

(06-05-2018 09:18 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:20 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 07:32 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Lee didn't set the bar very high for these two incoming frosh. If we get 5 points and 4 rebounds out of each of them, they'll surpass Lee's contribution.

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If they don’t we will be in a sh.t ton of trouble because we have no one else who will.

One of them will most likely be starting or playing significant minutes off the bench so they should easily surpass Lee’s stats as a freshmen.

That simply doesn’t mean they are or will be better players, end of discussion.

Besides they don’t need to replace Lee’s freshman production, they need to replace Porter’s junior production and Stith’s senior production and that isn’t going to happen. That’s the big problem going into year 6.

It's hopeless Razor. The guy simply wants to argue no matter what. Don't forget his infamous words ... Gerald Lee was just an average big guy ODU recruited. And to think ODU had to go all the way to Finland just to get that!!!

Please find where I made that argument. I said Lee was an average freshman. Nobody has provided evidence to prove otherwise.

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(06-05-2018 11:00 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 09:18 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 08:20 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-05-2018 07:32 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Lee didn't set the bar very high for these two incoming frosh. If we get 5 points and 4 rebounds out of each of them, they'll surpass Lee's contribution.

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If they don’t we will be in a sh.t ton of trouble because we have no one else who will.

One of them will most likely be starting or playing significant minutes off the bench so they should easily surpass Lee’s stats as a freshmen.

That simply doesn’t mean they are or will be better players, end of discussion.

Besides they don’t need to replace Lee’s freshman production, they need to replace Porter’s junior production and Stith’s senior production and that isn’t going to happen. That’s the big problem going into year 6.

It's hopeless Razor. The guy simply wants to argue no matter what. Don't forget his infamous words ... Gerald Lee was just an average big guy ODU recruited. And to think ODU had to go all the way to Finland just to get that!!!

Please find where I made that argument. I said Lee was an average freshman. Nobody has provided evidence to prove otherwise.

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There is a huge difference between being an “average freshman” and putting up “average stats” in a role that never saw him do anything more than weakside rebound.

It was obvious to anyone who watched him as a freshman that he was far from average as his multiple NCAA births, multiple all caa nods, caa finals mvp and 2 time mid major all American status showed.

But sure, let’s just keep on comparing freshman who’ve never played a game at odu to ridiculously lofty goals like comparing favorably to a player like lee simply because they might equal his stats next year (in a greatly expanded role for them).

It’s worked soooooooooooooooo well for all of Jones’s previous “best recruiting classses ever!!!!”. Give it a rest.

So you're now arguing that things Lee didn't do his freshman year made his freshman year a success? He didn't score much. Success. He didn't rebound much. Success. He didn't shoot FT well. Success. He didn't block many shots. Success.

The problem with your argument is that you can't separate Lee as a Sophomore through Senior from the Freshman. He definitely developed a LOT of skills later on that allowed him to overcome his athletic disadvantage--which in turn allowed us to see measurable contributions to the team. However, he didn't have those skills as a Freshman.

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(06-06-2018 05:13 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  So you're now arguing that things Lee didn't do his freshman year made his freshman year a success? He didn't score much. Success. He didn't rebound much. Success. He didn't shoot FT well. Success. He didn't block many shots. Success.

The problem with your argument is that you can't separate Lee as a Sophomore through Senior from the Freshman. He definitely developed a LOT of skills later on that allowed him to overcome his athletic disadvantage--which in turn allowed us to see measurable contributions to the team. However, he didn't have those skills as a Freshman.

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Lee was a point center but had an athletic disadvantage.

I think I’ve heard it all now. This is worse than home court disadvantage.

(06-06-2018 03:12 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 05:13 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  So you're now arguing that things Lee didn't do his freshman year made his freshman year a success? He didn't score much. Success. He didn't rebound much. Success. He didn't shoot FT well. Success. He didn't block many shots. Success.

The problem with your argument is that you can't separate Lee as a Sophomore through Senior from the Freshman. He definitely developed a LOT of skills later on that allowed him to overcome his athletic disadvantage--which in turn allowed us to see measurable contributions to the team. However, he didn't have those skills as a Freshman.

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Lee was a point center but had an athletic disadvantage.

I think I’ve heard it all now. This is worse than home court disadvantage.

I told you Razor, give it up. It's fruitless. To him the topic really doesn't even matter. It is all about the argument to which he always figures that as long as he got in the last response, he was right. He'll go on forever if you continue to respond.

So now Lee was really athletic???

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