I'd like to focus on the WAC and how in the world they will be able to maintain an autobid in the next five years.

They have eight members now:
1. Utah Valley
2. UTRGV
3. New Mexico State
4. Grand Canyon
5. UMKC
6. Seattle
7. Chicago State
8. Cal State Bakersfield

Cal State Bakersfield is leaving in 2020 for the Big West. Cal Baptist joins this fall but is not full fledged D1 or eligible for conference or NCAA championships until fall. 2022.

Chicago State is as good as gone. They are on a contract with the WAC and it is a near certainty that it will not be renewed because of how much they are struggling financially.

Since Gonzaga is all but a done deal to the MW, either Grand Canyon or Seattle is going to take it's place in the WCC.

That brings the WAC down to 6 members, which includes aCal Baptist program that can't participate in conference championship s until 2022.

Nevermind that the Summit could invite UMKC at any point, or that the MW or WCC could invite Grand Canyon. Six members is not enough to hold an autobid.

Could the WAC lose it's autobid?

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:16 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 09:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 09:04 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If the new grouping, and the reshuffle don't kill a conference

I don't think they can manage to kill a conference. I call it Zombie WAC because you can't kill it. The reason you can't kill it is that there's a core of schools no other conference wants, and the NCAA doesn't want 4 or 5 D-I schools left out in the cold and forced to cobble together indy schedules in every sport. Maybe if the end game had only one or two orphans the NCAA would leave 'em out in the cold. But not more than that.

How could you kill Zombie WAC and avoid the "orphan" problem?
1) Cal Baptist stays in Division II.
2) Chicago State exits Division I.
3) UTRGV joins the Southland (or a Zombie Sun Belt, if most of the current schools leave)
4) UMKC joins the Summit or Horizon or MVC (or the aforementioned Zombie Sun Belt).
5) NMSU joins the MWC, or CUSA or SBC if those conferences are still intact.
6) GCU writes a big check and buys an invitation to some conference.
7) Seattle joins the WCC.
8) Utah Valley ... I don't know. Maybe GCU writes a check big enough to buy them a spot, too. Heh.

IMO, that's way too many moving parts to be realistic. I know we have some folks here who think that any scenario you can imagine is not only realistic but probable -- but this scenario is neither.

The Sun Belt got down to three schools with one slated to join. The American South merged with the Sun Belt taking those schools in.

The SMART commissioner with struggling numbers who knows their history goes to the NCAA citing Sun Belt and American South and executes a merger. Why? Because under the SBC/ASC deal both conferences retained their units from the NCAA Tournament. They got a short-term windfall while shoring up their numbers.

In this case. You absorb the WAC, you let Chicago State's contract expire, Seattle heads off the WCC, you take the units and let things work themselves out.

The basketball units, wherever they end up, are the least worrisome of the possible issues in that scenario.

That plan would leave the schools who move into the WAC's zombie body with five members who don't play FBS football, spread out over 3 time zones (plus NMSU that does have FBS football). It has all the same problems the WAC now has -- several low-budget athletic departments, including recent move-ups from Division II, excessive travel -- but just adding 7 FBS schools to it for a 13-team WAC. Those FBS schools aren't going to leave CUSA or the Sun Belt to join that.

Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:16 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 09:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I don't think they can manage to kill a conference. I call it Zombie WAC because you can't kill it. The reason you can't kill it is that there's a core of schools no other conference wants, and the NCAA doesn't want 4 or 5 D-I schools left out in the cold and forced to cobble together indy schedules in every sport. Maybe if the end game had only one or two orphans the NCAA would leave 'em out in the cold. But not more than that.

How could you kill Zombie WAC and avoid the "orphan" problem?
1) Cal Baptist stays in Division II.
2) Chicago State exits Division I.
3) UTRGV joins the Southland (or a Zombie Sun Belt, if most of the current schools leave)
4) UMKC joins the Summit or Horizon or MVC (or the aforementioned Zombie Sun Belt).
5) NMSU joins the MWC, or CUSA or SBC if those conferences are still intact.
6) GCU writes a big check and buys an invitation to some conference.
7) Seattle joins the WCC.
8) Utah Valley ... I don't know. Maybe GCU writes a check big enough to buy them a spot, too. Heh.

IMO, that's way too many moving parts to be realistic. I know we have some folks here who think that any scenario you can imagine is not only realistic but probable -- but this scenario is neither.

The Sun Belt got down to three schools with one slated to join. The American South merged with the Sun Belt taking those schools in.

The SMART commissioner with struggling numbers who knows their history goes to the NCAA citing Sun Belt and American South and executes a merger. Why? Because under the SBC/ASC deal both conferences retained their units from the NCAA Tournament. They got a short-term windfall while shoring up their numbers.

In this case. You absorb the WAC, you let Chicago State's contract expire, Seattle heads off the WCC, you take the units and let things work themselves out.

The basketball units, wherever they end up, are the least worrisome of the possible issues in that scenario.

That plan would leave the schools who move into the WAC's zombie body with five members who don't play FBS football, spread out over 3 time zones (plus NMSU that does have FBS football). It has all the same problems the WAC now has -- several low-budget athletic departments, including recent move-ups from Division II, excessive travel -- but just adding 7 FBS schools to it for a 13-team WAC. Those FBS schools aren't going to leave CUSA or the Sun Belt to join that.

Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

Would Idaho still have moved back to FCS if they had an FBS home? I kinda thought they only chose that as opposed to FBS Independence but I didn't follow it closely.

(03-21-2018 12:07 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:16 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The Sun Belt got down to three schools with one slated to join. The American South merged with the Sun Belt taking those schools in.

The SMART commissioner with struggling numbers who knows their history goes to the NCAA citing Sun Belt and American South and executes a merger. Why? Because under the SBC/ASC deal both conferences retained their units from the NCAA Tournament. They got a short-term windfall while shoring up their numbers.

In this case. You absorb the WAC, you let Chicago State's contract expire, Seattle heads off the WCC, you take the units and let things work themselves out.

The basketball units, wherever they end up, are the least worrisome of the possible issues in that scenario.

That plan would leave the schools who move into the WAC's zombie body with five members who don't play FBS football, spread out over 3 time zones (plus NMSU that does have FBS football). It has all the same problems the WAC now has -- several low-budget athletic departments, including recent move-ups from Division II, excessive travel -- but just adding 7 FBS schools to it for a 13-team WAC. Those FBS schools aren't going to leave CUSA or the Sun Belt to join that.

Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

Would Idaho still have moved back to FCS if they had an FBS home? I kinda thought they only chose that as opposed to FBS Independence but I didn't follow it closely.

No way they do.

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:16 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 09:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I don't think they can manage to kill a conference. I call it Zombie WAC because you can't kill it. The reason you can't kill it is that there's a core of schools no other conference wants, and the NCAA doesn't want 4 or 5 D-I schools left out in the cold and forced to cobble together indy schedules in every sport. Maybe if the end game had only one or two orphans the NCAA would leave 'em out in the cold. But not more than that.

How could you kill Zombie WAC and avoid the "orphan" problem?
1) Cal Baptist stays in Division II.
2) Chicago State exits Division I.
3) UTRGV joins the Southland (or a Zombie Sun Belt, if most of the current schools leave)
4) UMKC joins the Summit or Horizon or MVC (or the aforementioned Zombie Sun Belt).
5) NMSU joins the MWC, or CUSA or SBC if those conferences are still intact.
6) GCU writes a big check and buys an invitation to some conference.
7) Seattle joins the WCC.
8) Utah Valley ... I don't know. Maybe GCU writes a check big enough to buy them a spot, too. Heh.

IMO, that's way too many moving parts to be realistic. I know we have some folks here who think that any scenario you can imagine is not only realistic but probable -- but this scenario is neither.

The Sun Belt got down to three schools with one slated to join. The American South merged with the Sun Belt taking those schools in.

The SMART commissioner with struggling numbers who knows their history goes to the NCAA citing Sun Belt and American South and executes a merger. Why? Because under the SBC/ASC deal both conferences retained their units from the NCAA Tournament. They got a short-term windfall while shoring up their numbers.

In this case. You absorb the WAC, you let Chicago State's contract expire, Seattle heads off the WCC, you take the units and let things work themselves out.

The basketball units, wherever they end up, are the least worrisome of the possible issues in that scenario.

That plan would leave the schools who move into the WAC's zombie body with five members who don't play FBS football, spread out over 3 time zones (plus NMSU that does have FBS football). It has all the same problems the WAC now has -- several low-budget athletic departments, including recent move-ups from Division II, excessive travel -- but just adding 7 FBS schools to it for a 13-team WAC. Those FBS schools aren't going to leave CUSA or the Sun Belt to join that.

Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

(03-21-2018 12:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:16 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 09:02 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  The Sun Belt got down to three schools with one slated to join. The American South merged with the Sun Belt taking those schools in.

The SMART commissioner with struggling numbers who knows their history goes to the NCAA citing Sun Belt and American South and executes a merger. Why? Because under the SBC/ASC deal both conferences retained their units from the NCAA Tournament. They got a short-term windfall while shoring up their numbers.

In this case. You absorb the WAC, you let Chicago State's contract expire, Seattle heads off the WCC, you take the units and let things work themselves out.

The basketball units, wherever they end up, are the least worrisome of the possible issues in that scenario.

That plan would leave the schools who move into the WAC's zombie body with five members who don't play FBS football, spread out over 3 time zones (plus NMSU that does have FBS football). It has all the same problems the WAC now has -- several low-budget athletic departments, including recent move-ups from Division II, excessive travel -- but just adding 7 FBS schools to it for a 13-team WAC. Those FBS schools aren't going to leave CUSA or the Sun Belt to join that.

Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

You are thinking small
And your school wasn't a member at the time anyway.

Idaho would have had no choice but to withdraw. No way they swing all-sports in the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt carrot would have been guaranteeing football only for x years. Seattle couldn't afford it either. They would have left.

Nothing would be different from today except NMSU gets in as a full member which a majority wanted, the WAC badge would have been retired, and the Sun Belt would have pocketed six years of units and the departure fees.

(03-21-2018 11:38 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'd like to focus on the WAC and how in the world they will be able to maintain an autobid in the next five years.

They have eight members now:
1. Utah Valley
2. UTRGV
3. New Mexico State
4. Grand Canyon
5. UMKC
6. Seattle
7. Chicago State
8. Cal State Bakersfield

Cal State Bakersfield is leaving in 2020 for the Big West. Cal Baptist joins this fall but is not full fledged D1 or eligible for conference or NCAA championships until fall. 2022.

Chicago State is as good as gone. They are on a contract with the WAC and it is a near certainty that it will not be renewed because of how much they are struggling financially.

Since Gonzaga is all but a done deal to the MW, either Grand Canyon or Seattle is going to take it's place in the WCC.

That brings the WAC down to 6 members, which includes aCal Baptist program that can't participate in conference championship s until 2022.

Nevermind that the Summit could invite UMKC at any point, or that the MW or WCC could invite Grand Canyon. Six members is not enough to hold an autobid.

Could the WAC lose it's autobid?

Chicago State is not leaving. The WAC plans on having 9 schools for basketball in 2018-2019, 10 schools for baseball and 12 schools for men's soccer. It is impossible to predict what might happen in the next few months with conference re-alignment, but for now they are okay.

Five years from now? Who knows. As last year showed with the AAC, if one conference decides to add to their league, it can affect multiple conferences. Conferences like the WAC, the Summit and the Atlantic Sun need a period of stability that they just can't get with the constant change.

(03-21-2018 12:35 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:16 AM)Wedge Wrote:  The basketball units, wherever they end up, are the least worrisome of the possible issues in that scenario.

That plan would leave the schools who move into the WAC's zombie body with five members who don't play FBS football, spread out over 3 time zones (plus NMSU that does have FBS football). It has all the same problems the WAC now has -- several low-budget athletic departments, including recent move-ups from Division II, excessive travel -- but just adding 7 FBS schools to it for a 13-team WAC. Those FBS schools aren't going to leave CUSA or the Sun Belt to join that.

Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

You are thinking small
And your school wasn't a member at the time anyway.

Idaho would have had no choice but to withdraw. No way they swing all-sports in the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt carrot would have been guaranteeing football only for x years. Seattle couldn't afford it either. They would have left.

Nothing would be different from today except NMSU gets in as a full member which a majority wanted, the WAC badge would have been retired, and the Sun Belt would have pocketed six years of units and the departure fees.

Where would Seattle have gone? I have no doubt they would gladly join any league from the Rockies West over the WAC, but no one has offered. Only with Gonzaga leaving the WCC this year or 2019 is there a chance for Seattle to move, and that is after they've been in the WAC since, what, 2012? 2013? The Sun Belt would have had them all that time, too, unless Seattle was willing to go back to the Great West with Chicago State, Utah Valley, Cal State Bakersfield, NJIT (which has since joined the A-Sun), and UTRGV. That would have been a non-autobid league. Seattle probably would have had to stay in the Sun Belt.

Your idea is not terrible, but there are some unswered questions.

Sun Belt had already run off Denver for not sponsoring enough sports. Seattle would have found a home or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(03-21-2018 12:52 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:35 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 11:28 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Right that is why Karl Benson gave up on the WAC and moved to the SBC.

More realistic long term survival chances.

Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

You are thinking small
And your school wasn't a member at the time anyway.

Idaho would have had no choice but to withdraw. No way they swing all-sports in the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt carrot would have been guaranteeing football only for x years. Seattle couldn't afford it either. They would have left.

Nothing would be different from today except NMSU gets in as a full member which a majority wanted, the WAC badge would have been retired, and the Sun Belt would have pocketed six years of units and the departure fees.

Where would Seattle have gone? I have no doubt they would gladly join any league from the Rockies West over the WAC, but no one has offered. Only with Gonzaga leaving the WCC this year or 2019 is there a chance for Seattle to move, and that is after they've been in the WAC since, what, 2012? 2013? The Sun Belt would have had them all that time, too, unless Seattle was willing to go back to the Great West with Chicago State, Utah Valley, Cal State Bakersfield, NJIT (which has since joined the A-Sun), and UTRGV. That would have been a non-autobid league. Seattle probably would have had to stay in the Sun Belt.

Your idea is not terrible, but there are some unswered questions.

Interesting idea. I can see Idaho still doing their thing with the Big Sky, but I don't see Seattle leaving the Sunbelt for basketball independence. WCC didn't want them at the time. Big West maybe would have taken them in their desperate state but with a hefty price tag.

MVC was thinking of the same thing that arkstfan is talking about as well. Hold up on that deal was Seattle and Idaho.

Someone said that the continuity rule didn’t apply to the MWC when they formed in 1999. (7 teams playing together for a number of years forming a new conference)
It did apply and they passed the test....very easily. From Wikipedia:

1.BYU: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC in 1999.
2.Utah: in WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC
3.Wyoming: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC
4.New Mexico: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC.
5.Colorado St: In WAC for 32 years when they formed MWC.
6.San Diego St: In WAC for 21 years when they formed MWC.
7.Air Force: In WAC for 20 years when they formed MWC.
That’s 7 schools that played together in a conference for decades that formed a new league.
The 8th School was UNLV who had played in the WAC for 3 years, and in the late 70’s and early 80’s were considered as some sort of transitioning WAC member.

Are there 7 CUSA schools with that sort of history of continuous FBS/D1 history of playing together?

(03-21-2018 01:35 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:52 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:35 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Biggest mistake the Sun Belt made in my opinion was not merging with the WAC when things blew up.

Sun Belt added Texas State and UT-Arlington but only took Idaho and NMSU football only.

If Sun Belt had grabbed the whole thing, they would have had Texas State, UT-Arlington, NMSU, Idaho, Seattle and Denver and gotten all of the WAC's units.

Would have taken four votes and Texas State, UTA and NMSU were locks. Denver was already negotiating with the Summit so may very well have voted with those three. WAC closes up shop sends its money to New Orleans. Denver heads on out before the ink is dry. Idaho and Seattle bail and only change is the Sun Belt has NMSU which a majority (but not 3/4ths) of Sun Belt schools wanted to happen anyway.

No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

You are thinking small
And your school wasn't a member at the time anyway.

Idaho would have had no choice but to withdraw. No way they swing all-sports in the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt carrot would have been guaranteeing football only for x years. Seattle couldn't afford it either. They would have left.

Nothing would be different from today except NMSU gets in as a full member which a majority wanted, the WAC badge would have been retired, and the Sun Belt would have pocketed six years of units and the departure fees.

Where would Seattle have gone? I have no doubt they would gladly join any league from the Rockies West over the WAC, but no one has offered. Only with Gonzaga leaving the WCC this year or 2019 is there a chance for Seattle to move, and that is after they've been in the WAC since, what, 2012? 2013? The Sun Belt would have had them all that time, too, unless Seattle was willing to go back to the Great West with Chicago State, Utah Valley, Cal State Bakersfield, NJIT (which has since joined the A-Sun), and UTRGV. That would have been a non-autobid league. Seattle probably would have had to stay in the Sun Belt.

Your idea is not terrible, but there are some unswered questions.

Interesting idea. I can see Idaho still doing their thing with the Big Sky, but I don't see Seattle leaving the Sunbelt for basketball independence. WCC didn't want them at the time. Big West maybe would have taken them in their desperate state but with a hefty price tag.

Sun Belt had previously put New Orleans and Denver under a mandate to sponsor a minimum number of sports or be expelled. Seattle actually sponsors enough but I seriously doubt they would have withstood sending softball and baseball to Louisiana and Alabama very long.

(03-21-2018 03:54 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 01:35 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:52 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:35 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

You are thinking small
And your school wasn't a member at the time anyway.

Idaho would have had no choice but to withdraw. No way they swing all-sports in the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt carrot would have been guaranteeing football only for x years. Seattle couldn't afford it either. They would have left.

Nothing would be different from today except NMSU gets in as a full member which a majority wanted, the WAC badge would have been retired, and the Sun Belt would have pocketed six years of units and the departure fees.

Where would Seattle have gone? I have no doubt they would gladly join any league from the Rockies West over the WAC, but no one has offered. Only with Gonzaga leaving the WCC this year or 2019 is there a chance for Seattle to move, and that is after they've been in the WAC since, what, 2012? 2013? The Sun Belt would have had them all that time, too, unless Seattle was willing to go back to the Great West with Chicago State, Utah Valley, Cal State Bakersfield, NJIT (which has since joined the A-Sun), and UTRGV. That would have been a non-autobid league. Seattle probably would have had to stay in the Sun Belt.

Your idea is not terrible, but there are some unswered questions.

Interesting idea. I can see Idaho still doing their thing with the Big Sky, but I don't see Seattle leaving the Sunbelt for basketball independence. WCC didn't want them at the time. Big West maybe would have taken them in their desperate state but with a hefty price tag.

Sun Belt had previously put New Orleans and Denver under a mandate to sponsor a minimum number of sports or be expelled. Seattle actually sponsors enough but I seriously doubt they would have withstood sending softball and baseball to Louisiana and Alabama very long.

Seattle has been sending their teams in those sports and others to Chicago, Kansas City, and Edinburg TX for several years.

(03-21-2018 03:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Someone said that the continuity rule didn’t apply to the MWC when they formed in 1999. (7 teams playing together for a number of years forming a new conference)
It did apply and they passed the test....very easily. From Wikipedia:

1.BYU: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC in 1999.
2.Utah: in WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC
3.Wyoming: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC
4.New Mexico: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC.
5.Colorado St: In WAC for 32 years when they formed MWC.
6.San Diego St: In WAC for 21 years when they formed MWC.
7.Air Force: In WAC for 20 years when they formed MWC.
That’s 7 schools that played together in a conference for decades that formed a new league.
The 8th School was UNLV who had played in the WAC for 3 years, and in the late 70’s and early 80’s were considered as some sort of transitioning WAC member.

Are there 7 CUSA schools with that sort of history of continuous FBS/D1 history of playing together?

Was that the rule in 1999? I doubt it was. I know for certain that the waiting time was different back then.

When CUSA formed in 1996, it didnt have an autobid. There was a 2-yr waiting period before it received an autobid.

(03-21-2018 05:36 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 03:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Someone said that the continuity rule didn’t apply to the MWC when they formed in 1999. (7 teams playing together for a number of years forming a new conference)
It did apply and they passed the test....very easily. From Wikipedia:

1.BYU: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC in 1999.
2.Utah: in WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC
3.Wyoming: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC
4.New Mexico: In WAC for 37 years when they formed MWC.
5.Colorado St: In WAC for 32 years when they formed MWC.
6.San Diego St: In WAC for 21 years when they formed MWC.
7.Air Force: In WAC for 20 years when they formed MWC.
That’s 7 schools that played together in a conference for decades that formed a new league.
The 8th School was UNLV who had played in the WAC for 3 years, and in the late 70’s and early 80’s were considered as some sort of transitioning WAC member.

Are there 7 CUSA schools with that sort of history of continuous FBS/D1 history of playing together?

Was that the rule in 1999? I doubt it was. I know for certain that the waiting time was different back then.

When CUSA formed in 1996, it didnt have an autobid. There was a 2-yr waiting period before it received an autobid.

I don’t know if it was a rule back then for sure, but I thought it was. Actually CUSA formed in 1995 and played in everything but football until Houston joined in 96 and provided a 6th FB team.

(03-21-2018 03:54 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 01:35 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:52 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:35 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:18 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  No thanks. Idaho and Seattle as FULL members in the same league with schools in Boone, NC; Atlanta; Stateboro, GA; and Alabama just for a few NCAA units? That money would be eaten up in a year from flying almost to British Columbia for money-losing volleyball and women's basketball. I do feel bad for Idaho and New Mexico State and any other school that is getting left out, but there is no reason the Sun Belt schools should have to be the ones to pay the price.

You are thinking small
And your school wasn't a member at the time anyway.

Idaho would have had no choice but to withdraw. No way they swing all-sports in the Sun Belt. The Sun Belt carrot would have been guaranteeing football only for x years. Seattle couldn't afford it either. They would have left.

Nothing would be different from today except NMSU gets in as a full member which a majority wanted, the WAC badge would have been retired, and the Sun Belt would have pocketed six years of units and the departure fees.

Where would Seattle have gone? I have no doubt they would gladly join any league from the Rockies West over the WAC, but no one has offered. Only with Gonzaga leaving the WCC this year or 2019 is there a chance for Seattle to move, and that is after they've been in the WAC since, what, 2012? 2013? The Sun Belt would have had them all that time, too, unless Seattle was willing to go back to the Great West with Chicago State, Utah Valley, Cal State Bakersfield, NJIT (which has since joined the A-Sun), and UTRGV. That would have been a non-autobid league. Seattle probably would have had to stay in the Sun Belt.

Your idea is not terrible, but there are some unswered questions.

Interesting idea. I can see Idaho still doing their thing with the Big Sky, but I don't see Seattle leaving the Sunbelt for basketball independence. WCC didn't want them at the time. Big West maybe would have taken them in their desperate state but with a hefty price tag.

Sun Belt had previously put New Orleans and Denver under a mandate to sponsor a minimum number of sports or be expelled. Seattle actually sponsors enough but I seriously doubt they would have withstood sending softball and baseball to Louisiana and Alabama very long.

I think eventually they would have worked out a deal with the Big West similar to Hawaii. But again college administrators are incredibly risk adverse and by taking Seattle in, there is the chance they do not leave and you are stuck taking annual trips to the Pacific Northwest.