(05-14-2018 11:54 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 11:44 AM)nj alum Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 10:57 AM)Tribal Wrote:  I'm okay with having an honest discussion about this when we reach the Sweet 16, win a FCS title, renovate the Hall, improve the other 3 parts of Zable, pack Zable and the Hall for most games.

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Liberty took the plunge without the conditions set forth above:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/indep/li...flames.php

Liberty's plunge was into FBS independent status, right? That's a far cry from the suggestion of W&M making the fantasy leap to the ACC.

Geez.

Did you even look at their future schedules per the link? After all, my involvement in this thread started with looking at favorite football schedules, nothing more.

Putting the thinking cap on, W&M is more attractive to a conference that Liberty.

I GET it! HELLO! I'm tired of saying it, and you're tired of reading it- there's lots of reasons why this won't happen...one of which is that there will never be any leadership on this issue.

For example, there are now five football independents. I know it's a long shot, and fraught with issues, and NCAA crap, but if a couple of more schools go independent in football, that is a possibility. After all, we have been independent in football before.

Or God forbid, CAA football challenges the NCAA, and CAA football moves up as a conference.

You folks, on this sports board, are confirming why Tribe athletics is condemned to sports purgatory, and why Tribe sports is so reactionary.l

Still love ya all!

:-)

I took the tour twice with my prospective-student teenagers over the past 5 years. Both times, the student guides didn't know anything about athletics, and in one instance, the young lady (guide) made some kind of condescending comment about how W&M never wins anything (which was met with laughter through the group).

I have extended family member kids who played HS sports, had the academics to get in, toured the campus, but steered away because of the picture they had that unless you were on athletic scholarship, you wouldn't relate to any fellow students because of the lack of athletics interest. Think this is less of an AD problem to address than an overall admissions marketing problem that by this kind of bias is channeling the general type of student coming to W&M these days. In turn, you then have a general student population that has no athletic games interest, winning teams or not, and recognizable opponents or not. Add to that the fraternity/sorority system changes and you now have a very different place socially from bygone eras.

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(05-14-2018 01:15 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  I have extended family member kids who played HS sports, had the academics to get in, toured the campus, but steered away because of the picture they had that unless you were on athletic scholarship, you wouldn't relate to any fellow students because of the lack of athletics interest. Think this is less of an AD problem to address than an overall admissions marketing problem that by this kind of bias is channeling the general type of student coming to W&M these days. In turn, you then have a general student population that has no athletic games interest, winning teams or not, and recognizable opponents or not. Add to that the fraternity/sorority system changes and you now have a very different place socially from bygone eras.

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In looking at statistics, it would a appear that W&M has a significantly higher % of students participating in varsity sports than most of the schools that it competes against for students. It generally finishes near the top of the standings for total athletics program performance.

This should be a recruiting plus on campus tours to dispel the common conception that W&M is only a school for extreme nerds who seldom see the light of day while they are locked away studying or playing video games.

The W&M student body is more diverse and well rounded than the student guides describe, isn't it?

(05-14-2018 01:36 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 01:15 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  I have extended family member kids who played HS sports, had the academics to get in, toured the campus, but steered away because of the picture they had that unless you were on athletic scholarship, you wouldn't relate to any fellow students because of the lack of athletics interest. Think this is less of an AD problem to address than an overall admissions marketing problem that by this kind of bias is channeling the general type of student coming to W&M these days. In turn, you then have a general student population that has no athletic games interest, winning teams or not, and recognizable opponents or not. Add to that the fraternity/sorority system changes and you now have a very different place socially from bygone eras.

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In looking at statistics, it would a appear that W&M has a significantly higher % of students participating in varsity sports than most of the schools that it competes against for students. It generally finishes near the top of the standings for total athletics program performance.

This should be a recruiting plus on campus tours to dispel the common conception that W&M is only a school for extreme nerds who seldom see the light of day while they are locked away studying or playing video games.

The W&M student body is more diverse and well rounded than the student guides describe, isn't it?

Would be nice of we could get the Student Athlete Advisory Council to work with the guide program/admissions office.

http://www.tribeathletics.com/sports/201...?path=saac

(05-14-2018 02:45 PM)Tribe1693 Wrote:  Would be nice of we could get the Student Athlete Advisory Council to work with the guide program/admissions office.

http://www.tribeathletics.com/sports/201...?path=saac

It wouldn't be just "nice", it sorta is what HAS to happen. You don't need ANY tour guide saying ANYTHING negatively about the school, when in a position of leadership. It's just stupid. You give NO ONE a reason to say "that's not for me". It should be part of the guide training program.

I'm disappointed in the school, if it is not.

There is no question that it is different now that when I attended 27 years ago. But, the school has always been about more than athletics and more than just academics. The students are encouraged from the moment they set on campus(I was there with my freshman daughter when it occurred) to be involved in activities and to support their fellow classmates. Nearly all of them are involved in a lot of activities. As for their coming out to support the athletic teams, here was my daughters experience this year:

She and several of her friends from her dorm(one of the smallest on campus) attended a lot of events. They went to the mens soccer NCAA game even though getting there was not easy and had a great time. They went to 4 of the 5 home football games(There was a conflict for one of the games for her and some of her dormmates). They stayed to the end of all of them but the general consensus was that the games were depressing and frequently boring offensively. My daughter has attended W&M football games for basically her entire life and she pulled hard for the team as she always does. But, some of her classmates left at half when we invariably had not moved the ball or scored much in any of the first halves. Most of her good friends(guys and girls) said they plan to attend again this season. The overall thought was we were not good. But, while there was frustration, they felt bad for the team, especially the defensive players. She has seen enough W&M football to believe that last season was much less effective than normal. For example, she went to several games in the Ortiz-McBride season where the Tribe won only 2-3 games as well. But, in that season, the Tribe was very competitive and scored a decent number of points.

They each supported lots of other events, a few each season while balancing their coursework, club activities, concerts and for some, part time jobs. They came out in droves for a few basketball games, but were late to the party due to the home schedule falling at poor times before break and then after missing several games before they returned. All of them really, really enjoyed the basketball experience of game day, particularly the gold rush game and the senior day game. They did witness the two blowouts at home to Towson and Northeastern as the first games back from winter break. Despite that, they returned for several more games. I think at the end of the day, they are going to come out if it is fun and exciting. Football, unfortunately last season was not. I watched hundreds of fans do the same thing as the students(filing out early last season). Most of us simply hope it was a historically bad offensive season and that things will be better this fall. I do know that any complaining I do at the game only serves to upset those nearby and I have tried to remain positive even when we were getting drilled.

My daughter did get to see up close the commitment level of many of the players to both their sport and their academics. She is Green and Gold through and through already. Most of her friends love it. But, they do have other interests besides going to sporting events. There are clubs, plays, concerts, races and events, and other activities. The only way to prevent this is to strongly emphasize not scheduling competing events. The two best examples of that are Gold Rush and Homecoming. Virtually nothing occurs opposite those 2 events. We found the school now has 5 big weekends: Orientation, Family Weekend, Homecoming, Charter Day, and Commencement.

I sent an email to Ms. Huge suggesting that a brochure regarding current Tribe sports and past athletic accomplishments should be given to everyone on campus tours and to every freshman.
Send the material to incoming students or all students in early August so they arrive on campus anticipating a great fall season of sports.

I think a brochure would get lost in new student paperwork. I suggest having athletics ambassadors speak to incoming groups and maybe join tours.

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(05-14-2018 10:48 AM)nj alum Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 10:24 AM)Rocco Wrote:  So you're okay with whacking 5-6 varsity sports, adding 5-10k students and jacking up student fees to properly feed the beasts of basketball and football for this quixotic quest of convincing a P5 conference to look W&Ms way?

Yes, I'm okay with being in an athletics conference with Boston College, Pitt, UVa, VPI, Duke, Wake, UNC, and NC State.

"I cringe every time a poster wants to cut a varsity sport. Playing right into the hands of those academic weenies who hate college sports."

https://csnbbs.com/thread-829566-post-14...id14662612

Cute .... that's why I said what I said, didn't give credence to your attemp to put words in my mouth, and fashioned the answer the way I did ... knowing full well that Mr. Snark was lurking.

Back up to your old tricks, I see.

Unfortunately for you, I have no time for your juvenile behavior, and am no longer willing to engage you, especially after attempting to play nice with some smiley faces.

One too many times, my friend. Be well. Torment the others.

I'm done.

(05-14-2018 05:58 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I think a brochure would get lost in new student paperwork. I suggest having athletics ambassadors speak to incoming groups and maybe join tours.

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Can't it be both? Ambassadors should definitely happen. Brochures might get noticed by parents looking for something to do during a visit.

The tour guides should not be badmouthing any part of the school. They should have positive talking points for everything. That can and should be fixed.

That said, I don't know that I can find fault with the assessment that the football team is not very good. We are over .500 in the conference in ONE of the last seven years. There is no way to spin that. 2004 and 2009 are the farthest of outliers (and approaching ancient history in college kid terms), not the standard.

If you want people in the stands, put a quality product on the field. Over .500 in conference 14% of the time is not gonna cut it. When kids show up in the stands the first weeks and watch a team that can't hang, they find other things to do with their time. The football team does not inherently deserve to take up 3 hours of a student's time just because they are the football team. Earn it, and the fans will be there.

(05-15-2018 02:39 AM)soccerguy315 Wrote:  The tour guides should not be badmouthing any part of the school. They should have positive talking points for everything. That can and should be fixed.

That said, I don't know that I can find fault with the assessment that the football team is not very good. We are over .500 in the conference in ONE of the last seven years. There is no way to spin that. 2004 and 2009 are the farthest of outliers (and approaching ancient history in college kid terms), not the standard.

If you want people in the stands, put a quality product on the field. Over .500 in conference 14% of the time is not gonna cut it. When kids show up in the stands the first weeks and watch a team that can't hang, they find other things to do with their time. The football team does not inherently deserve to take up 3 hours of a student's time just because they are the football team. Earn it, and the fans will be there.

I'm one of the biggest advocates for bridging the gap between student-athletes and students, so I do think this conversation is important. And ideally there is a culture of supporting the team, rather than only a winning team. But face it...across the nation, the large majority comes out to support a winning team and enthusiasm wanes in the down years.

For what its worth, This fall's freshmen were in the 4th grade when we lost at Villanova in 2009. And most were 3 or 4 years old when the lights got brought into Zable in 2004. That *is* ancient history in college kid terms.

There is an enormous difference between college sports and big time college sports. Both of my sons ended up at big SEC schools. For football games they sell out 80,000+ tickets for every game and tailgating goes on for about five square miles around the stadium. The game day and game experience is completely different. Same thing with hoops at the ACC schools. Even baseball draws thousands of fans at most ACC/SEC schools.

As much as we love Tribe sports, you can't compare it to what some people expect. I understand why some kids may not be into sports and even if only 50 percent are fans, that's 3000 kids. At somewhere like Alabama that's 15,000 kids.

Hey, you folks remember the good old days when this thread was about game times?

(05-15-2018 10:33 AM)3xTribe Wrote:  Hey, you folks remember the good old days when this thread was about game times?

I still think the fact that we are so bad at the 1/1:30/2 is the real storyline here.

(05-14-2018 12:06 PM)tribetime10 Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 09:40 AM)Rocco Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 07:21 AM)tribetime10 Wrote:  Is there any data on what time of day we’ve had the most success since we introduced night games at Zable?

Here's the results since 2005. Next step is to figure out expected W/L (remind me later):

Noon: 7-4
1/1:30/2: 10-16
3/3:30/4: 5-1
6/7/7:30: 18-10

There were no 3 PM games until 2010. A lot of the 7 PM games have been early-season games against overmatched MEAC teams.

I'm not a math major, but there seems to be an outlier here with the 1/1:30/2. Good point on the expected wins.

Finally got a chance to finish this after the grievous wound on psyche rendered me unable to do anything but rock in the fetal position. Also some of my Excel columns got messed up and my original data was off- I think I typed in some 3 PM wins as 1 PM losses. I've fixed it:

Actual record at Zable, 2005-present:

Noon: 6-2
1/1:30/2: 11-10
3/3:30/4: 9-5
6/7/7:30: 18-10

Expected record:

Noon: 3.27-4.73
1: 9.03-11.97
3: 6.68-7.32
7: 14.34-12.66

I didn't include the 2011 New Haven game in the expected records column because it's a D-2 game and really we should pretend it never happened. On that same line not all 7 win seasons are equal but there's no way to adjust for that without this turning in to real work and I try to avoid that. Also I didn't use an HFA modifiers- their expected records should probably be a tick higher. The 7 PM kickoffs have had a lot of bad opponents.

(05-14-2018 09:49 PM)TribeInTheBurg Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 05:58 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I think a brochure would get lost in new student paperwork. I suggest having athletics ambassadors speak to incoming groups and maybe join tours.

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Can't it be both? Ambassadors should definitely happen. Brochures might get noticed by parents looking for something to do during a visit.

Sure, it could be both but I think the return on ambassadors would be better. Both are worthy of putting forward.

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(05-15-2018 10:58 AM)Rocco Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 12:06 PM)tribetime10 Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 09:40 AM)Rocco Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 07:21 AM)tribetime10 Wrote:  Is there any data on what time of day we’ve had the most success since we introduced night games at Zable?

Here's the results since 2005. Next step is to figure out expected W/L (remind me later):

Noon: 7-4
1/1:30/2: 10-16
3/3:30/4: 5-1
6/7/7:30: 18-10

There were no 3 PM games until 2010. A lot of the 7 PM games have been early-season games against overmatched MEAC teams.

I'm not a math major, but there seems to be an outlier here with the 1/1:30/2. Good point on the expected wins.

Finally got a chance to finish this after the grievous wound on psyche rendered me unable to do anything but rock in the fetal position. Also some of my Excel columns got messed up and my original data was off- I think I typed in some 3 PM wins as 1 PM losses. I've fixed it:

Actual record at Zable, 2005-present:

Noon: 6-2
1/1:30/2: 11-10
3/3:30/4: 9-5
6/7/7:30: 18-10

Expected record:

Noon: 3.27-4.73
1: 9.03-11.97
3: 6.68-7.32
7: 14.34-12.66

I didn't include the 2011 New Haven game in the expected records column because it's a D-2 game and really we should pretend it never happened. On that same line not all 7 win seasons are equal but there's no way to adjust for that without this turning in to real work and I try to avoid that. Also I didn't use an HFA modifiers- their expected records should probably be a tick higher. The 7 PM kickoffs have had a lot of bad opponents.

Rocco am I reading right that we outperform win expectations in every time slot?

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