(10-23-2018 03:54 PM)2Buck Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 03:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 03:32 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Is dropping the ACC affiliation and going back to a B1G focus an option?

Not really, at least not for the next 18 years. But as mentioned in the OP, the likelihood of their joining a conference is intentionally not a focus of this thread.

Well I'm asking because I'd rather ND join the B1G, where they'd have Michigan, Michigan St, OSU, Penn State, etc. I'm not a big fan of ACC football (especially hate Fla St and Miami).

If they were to join the ACC then I'd rather they get back with Michigan than Navy (I grew up during the heyday of that rivalry so although "recent", in my book it's a rivalry).

Same goes for Stanford. Navy will never be what it was in the first half of the 20th century and except for a couple low points in ND football that rivalry has never really been close in my viewing experience. For me, Stanford is a better rival for the future.

Edit: Guess I need to answer the question...

4 OOC Games (ACC):
1. USC
2. Michigan
3. Stanford
4. Rotation of Navy/Army/JMU

3 OOC Games (B1G):
1. USC
2. Stanford
3. Rotation of Navy/Army/JMU

Two things you need to understand as a Big Ten fan:
1. Notre Dame is not joining the Big Ten.
2. Missouri is not joining the Big Ten.

The Big Ten did to ND and Mizzou what the SEC did to FSU a long time ago. That has been talked about to death on other threads, so I will not bother to go into it yet again. If you are personally interested in what transpired between the SEC & FSU, you can pm me.
In addition on ND, if the SEC treatment wasn’t bad enough, the Big Ten refused to have anything to do with ND as a conference for a very long time, with only two exceptions: Purdue & Michigan State continued to play ND OOC in football. IMO, Michigan fans treated Notre Dame much like WVU fans treated Pittsburgh and Virginia Tech. ND did not forget this, and didn’t bother with Michigan for a very long time. Michigan is to the Big Ten what ‘Bama is to the SEC, is it not?? Why would ND want to continue to play a team whose fans treated them so miserably, let alone play them in other sports, and play in a conference that really didn’t like or want them at all???

(10-24-2018 05:55 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 03:54 PM)2Buck Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 03:38 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 03:32 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Is dropping the ACC affiliation and going back to a B1G focus an option?

Not really, at least not for the next 18 years. But as mentioned in the OP, the likelihood of their joining a conference is intentionally not a focus of this thread.

Well I'm asking because I'd rather ND join the B1G, where they'd have Michigan, Michigan St, OSU, Penn State, etc. I'm not a big fan of ACC football (especially hate Fla St and Miami).

If they were to join the ACC then I'd rather they get back with Michigan than Navy (I grew up during the heyday of that rivalry so although "recent", in my book it's a rivalry).

Same goes for Stanford. Navy will never be what it was in the first half of the 20th century and except for a couple low points in ND football that rivalry has never really been close in my viewing experience. For me, Stanford is a better rival for the future.

Edit: Guess I need to answer the question...

4 OOC Games (ACC):
1. USC
2. Michigan
3. Stanford
4. Rotation of Navy/Army/JMU

3 OOC Games (B1G):
1. USC
2. Stanford
3. Rotation of Navy/Army/JMU

Two things you need to understand as a Big Ten fan:
1. Notre Dame is not joining the Big Ten.
2. Missouri is not joining the Big Ten.

The Big Ten did to ND and Mizzou what the SEC did to FSU a long time ago. That has been talked about to death on other threads, so I will not bother to go into it yet again. If you are personally interested in what transpired between the SEC & FSU, you can pm me.
In addition on ND, if the SEC treatment wasn’t bad enough, the Big Ten refused to have anything to do with ND as a conference for a very long time, with only two exceptions: Purdue & Michigan State continued to play ND OOC in football. IMO, Michigan fans treated Notre Dame much like WVU fans treated Pittsburgh and Virginia Tech. ND did not forget this, and didn’t bother with Michigan for a very long time. Michigan is to the Big Ten what ‘Bama is to the SEC, is it not?? Why would ND want to continue to play a team whose fans treated them so miserably, let alone play them in other sports, and play in a conference that really didn’t like or want them at all???

ND administrators, alumni and fans largely despise Michigan and the Big Ten.

Hockey is one thing, and bad enough, but ND football would never join the Big Ten unless the only other option was to shut down the program.

The 1999 ND public rejection of the Big Ten should have ended such talk, but I guess not.

Heck, I submit that every move ND has made in the past 27 years (1991 NBC deal, 1995 Big East deal, 2012 ACC deal) was for football to stay indy and out of the clutches of the Big Ten.

(10-24-2018 06:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Heck, I submit that every move ND has made in the past 27 years (1991 NBC deal, 1995 Big East deal, 2012 ACC deal) was for football to stay indy and out of the clutches of the Big Ten.

And, ironically, Notre Dame's moves to stay indy and out of the clutches of the Big Ten gives the Big Ten every incentive to support Notre Dame continuing to stay indy, since the alternative of Notre Dame joining a conference other than the Big Ten is seen as even worse than that.

(10-24-2018 08:39 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 06:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Heck, I submit that every move ND has made in the past 27 years (1991 NBC deal, 1995 Big East deal, 2012 ACC deal) was for football to stay indy and out of the clutches of the Big Ten.

And, ironically, Notre Dame's moves to stay indy and out of the clutches of the Big Ten gives the Big Ten every incentive to support Notre Dame continuing to stay indy, since the alternative of Notre Dame joining a conference other than the Big Ten is seen as even worse than that.

So what you're saying is that Notre Dame has successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten, without actually joining the B1G for any sport other than ice hockey.

Cool.

I actually think it’s probably more likely that Southern Cal and Stanford go independent than ND joins the ACC

(10-22-2018 03:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 11:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Navy and USC are the two untouchables as far as the ND schedule is concerned. Financially (both TV and ticket-wise), ND also needs 7 home games per year (note that a Shamrock Series game outside of South Bend where ND controls the TV and ticket revenue is a “home” game), which means that Navy and USC would be the *only* home-and-home series that ND could have assuming that there’s an 8-game conference schedule. (The other 2 non-conference games would have to be one-off guarantee home games.) That is why it’s effectively impossible for ND to have what they believe they need as a full member of a conference.

Good points. I suppose it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility for the ACC to invite Navy (as football only) if Notre Dame joins all in, as was suggested earlier in the thread. Then they could do something like this:

Atlantic: Boston College, Florida State, Louisville, Miami-FL, Navy (FB only), Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Coastal: Clemson, Duke, Georgia Tech, NC State, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest

Of course, with an 8-game conference schedule, it would take 8 years to play the entire conference. However, the most important rivalries have not been split up, and the divisions are decently balanced in football strength.

For a less rigid alternative while still keeping it at 8 games, they could instead use a pod setup like so:

Pod 1: Boston College, Miami-FL, Navy (FB only), Notre Dame
Pod 2: Syracuse, Florida State, Louisville, Pittsburgh
Pod 3: Duke, Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia
Pod 4: Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, NC State, Virginia Tech

Pods rotate between two 8-team divisions in a 3-year cycle. Each team has a protected crossover in another pod and an alternate crossover in yet another pod (for years when the protected crossovers are in the same division). Teams are listed in the same order as their protected crossovers (Pods 1 vs. 2 and Pods 3 vs. 4). For example, Boston College/Syracuse is protected, as is Virginia/Virginia Tech. Teams are also listed in the same order as their alternate crossovers (Pods 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3). For example, Boston College/Wake Forest is an alternate crossover, as is Pittsburgh/Virginia.

So in such a scenario, Notre Dame would have greater OOC scheduling flexibility. I'm thinking something like:

1. USC
2. Shamrock Series
3. Other power conference team (e.g., Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Stanford)
4. Non-power conference team (buy game)

This allows them to have 6 actual home games plus 1 virtual home game with the Shamrock Series. The annual in-conference game with the Hurricanes (played in Miami at the end of the season when not playing at USC) replaces the Stanford game for the purposes of accessing fertile recruiting grounds.

And incidentally, adding Navy doesn't merely benefit Notre Dame. Midshipmen football over the past two decades has been better than that of several current ACC schools (Duke, Syracuse, Virginia, Wake Forest).

(10-24-2018 10:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So what you're saying is that Notre Dame has successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten, without actually joining the B1G for any sport other than ice hockey.

I'm saying that Notre Dame successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten before they ever considered joining the Big Ten in ice hockey.

After all, got to have the cake before you can apply the icing.

ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...-game.aspx

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...-game.aspx

Just curious: does Navy control revenue (tickets, concessions, etc.) for these "home games" against ND like they do for actual home games?

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...navy-notre Dame-game.aspx

What a waste of the Taxpayer's money.

(10-25-2018 11:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...navy-notre Dame-game.aspx

What a waste of the Taxpayer's money.

Navy Football expends roughly $0 of taxpayer money. The Naval Academy Athletic Association is a 501©3 organization, independent of appropriations, or even Navy-controlled non-approriated funds. There are formal agreements between NAAA and Big Navy on use of facilities, operations, etc. When those were last being reviewed, athletic director Chet Gladchuk in an interview said that about 3% of NAAA's $41million budget was Navy tax dollars - coaches and staff of "non-revenue" sports include USNA PE dept Professors, including some active duty, so some travel/benefits are just inextricable. If we could get that down to $0 we would.

(10-25-2018 11:26 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...-game.aspx

Just curious: does Navy control revenue (tickets, concessions, etc.) for these "home games" against ND like they do for actual home games?

Short answer is Yes.
We pay ND a visitors' guarantee as part of the home-and-home agreement - basically the alternate years offset.
We put out the hosting for bids from cities. Note that most press releases from San Diego are from the Holiday Bowl committee, which is with whom we're contracted. They in turn are generally leasing stadium and concessions, parking can get really specific agreement by agreement.
Largely though, the gate goes to Navy.

In Jacksonville unconfirmed tweet from one of these entities indicated that the gate guarantee to Navy was $4.5 million. For SD, nosebleed seats are $60 and the reported sales are at 64,000.

(10-25-2018 12:25 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...navy-notre Dame-game.aspx

What a waste of the Taxpayer's money.

Navy Football expends roughly $0 of taxpayer money. The Naval Academy Athletic Association is a 501©3 organization, independent of appropriations, or even Navy-controlled non-approriated funds. There are formal agreements between NAAA and Big Navy on use of facilities, operations, etc. When those were last being reviewed, athletic director Chet Gladchuk in an interview said that about 3% of NAAA's $41million budget was Navy tax dollars - coaches and staff of "non-revenue" sports include USNA PE dept Professors, including some active duty, so some travel/benefits are just inextricable. If we could get that down to $0 we would.

But who will pay to move all of the Midshipman to Ireland and back and insure their safety?

(10-25-2018 06:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 10:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So what you're saying is that Notre Dame has successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten, without actually joining the B1G for any sport other than ice hockey.

I'm saying that Notre Dame successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten before they ever considered joining the Big Ten in ice hockey.

After all, got to have the cake before you can apply the icing.

Isn't that a penalty in hockey?

(10-25-2018 01:34 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 12:25 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...navy-notre Dame-game.aspx

What a waste of the Taxpayer's money.

Navy Football expends roughly $0 of taxpayer money. The Naval Academy Athletic Association is a 501©3 organization, independent of appropriations, or even Navy-controlled non-approriated funds. There are formal agreements between NAAA and Big Navy on use of facilities, operations, etc. When those were last being reviewed, athletic director Chet Gladchuk in an interview said that about 3% of NAAA's $41million budget was Navy tax dollars - coaches and staff of "non-revenue" sports include USNA PE dept Professors, including some active duty, so some travel/benefits are just inextricable. If we could get that down to $0 we would.

But who will pay to move all of the Midshipman to Ireland and back and insure their safety?

Wracking my brain back to 2012, I think it will be about 1000, rather than "all."
Anyone who is signs up and is selected will be on movement order, probably by charter flight, paid in part by those attending, plus some costs offset by NAAA. Probably not a straight line equivalent, but our bowl game ticket sales always include a "can't attend? Donate to midshipmen or local servicemembers" so part of "who will pay" might be me.

Not clear on the "insure their safety" part of the question.

Edited to add: found an old link to a Baltimore news source that looks like Navy's game day press release, saying "Nearly 1,000 of the 4,400 members of the Brigade of Midshipmen have paid their own way to be at the game"

(10-25-2018 11:26 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...-game.aspx

Just curious: does Navy control revenue (tickets, concessions, etc.) for these "home games" against ND like they do for actual home games?

Yes.

(10-25-2018 01:34 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 12:25 PM)slhNavy91 Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...navy-notre Dame-game.aspx

What a waste of the Taxpayer's money.

Navy Football expends roughly $0 of taxpayer money. The Naval Academy Athletic Association is a 501©3 organization, independent of appropriations, or even Navy-controlled non-approriated funds. There are formal agreements between NAAA and Big Navy on use of facilities, operations, etc. When those were last being reviewed, athletic director Chet Gladchuk in an interview said that about 3% of NAAA's $41million budget was Navy tax dollars - coaches and staff of "non-revenue" sports include USNA PE dept Professors, including some active duty, so some travel/benefits are just inextricable. If we could get that down to $0 we would.

But who will pay to move all of the Midshipman to Ireland and back and insure their safety?

Who did it in 2012 or 1996 when they played each other in Dublin?

Now, you are "concerned"?

Who is paying to move the Navy people to San Diego for the ND game this weekend? That is 2,651 miles, not too much more than the distance between Annapolis and Dublin (3,354 miles).

Who paid when the game was in Jacksonville, Cleveland, Philly, Orlando, New Jersey or everywhere else Navy has played "home games" against ND in this series?

BTW, anywhere in Ireland is probably safer than most anywhere in the USA......I have been there many times, so I have no safety concerns for this game. I will most likely attend.

(10-21-2018 10:47 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  They are contracted to only join the ACC, should they join a so I’ll assume the ACC. If they join the ACC, it’ll likely necessitate a #16. Let’s assume West Virginia. Two divisions of 8:

Atlantic: Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville, Miami
Coastal: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Duke, Wake Forest, Virginia

I imagine Notre Dame joins with the caveat that division champions are determined solely on division games. That blocks out 7 games, leaving 5. Notre Dame may also negotiate an 8-game conference schedule. They could keep Navy, USC, and Stanford.

It doesn't necessitate a 16th member. 3 divisions of 5 work better for an 8 game schedule. Play everyone in your division every year and a rotating home and home with 2 teams in each of the other divisions.

Designate a rival in each of the other divisions that you can play more often to make the rotation work.

That way you get a home and home with every team every 6 years a 2 home and homes every 6 years with the rivals.

The two division champs with the highest BCS ratings play in the Championship Game.

It works for basketball too. Play your division twice and the other divisions once. 18 game schedule.

This all make too much sense so it will never happen.

Sent from my SM-G965U using CSNbbs mobile app

(10-25-2018 11:17 AM)TerryD Wrote:  ND and Navy are moving their 2020 game (a Navy home game) from the Meadowlands to Dublin, Ireland.

https://und.com/news/2018/10/25/football...-game.aspx

This is why I don’t count it as a Navy/AAC home game unless it’s played near Navy.

(10-25-2018 01:45 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 06:37 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 10:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So what you're saying is that Notre Dame has successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten, without actually joining the B1G for any sport other than ice hockey.

I'm saying that Notre Dame successfully manipulated and controlled the Big Ten before they ever considered joining the Big Ten in ice hockey.

After all, got to have the cake before you can apply the icing.

Isn't that a penalty in hockey?

It’s the equivalent to using the backboard in BB - it’s cheating.