(01-25-2019 01:13 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

This would be nice and neat

The MVC takes Murray St and Detroit to satisfy the public/private divide and solidify the MVC side of the MVFC

The OVC takes Northern Alabama to fill the Murray State slot

The Horizon takes IPFW creating a round robin public school only Midwestern basketball league

The Summit takes UNC which gives them 9 and room to grow with Augustana as well as solidify the Summit side of MVFC

The Big Sky stands pat and 10/12

My idea would be similar...

IPFW (Summit) [non-fb] ===> Horizon = Summit 8
UMKC (WAC) [non-fb] ====> Summit = Summit 9
W. Ill (Summit) [football] ==> Horizon = Summit 8
UNC (BSC) [football] =====> Summit = Summit 9
Augustana (NSIC) [football] => Summit = Summit 10

Summit would be 7/10...

WAC more compact...
BSC more compact...
Summit more compact...
Old NCC more reunited...

(01-25-2019 12:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

Wayne State Michigan have been on and off talks with The Horizon to join. The problem would be their football. MVFC football members would love to have them in the conference.

Summit:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
N. Colorado
N. Iowa

MVFC:
Illinois State
Murray State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Wayne State Michigan

It closes up the gaps in the MVFC a lot. Wayne State's academics are R1 standing. West would be called Summit and East would be called MVC.

Horizon isn’t talking with Wayne State. It’ll be Robert Morris and Fort Wayne if they expand.

Joeben69- your proposal makes a lot of sense, especially for the Summit, BSC, and WAC. You'd have to talk the Horizon into it which has balked at P-Ft. Wayne in the past. Western Illinois makes more sense in the OVC with schools like EIU, SIU-E, SEMO. (If Murray were to go to MVC, WIU could slip in.).

But then you get into personalities, memories, and feelings. Supposedly the Summit still has heartburn over UMKC's bolting to the WAC a few years ago. I say, "Get over it". The Summit needs a conference that is stable and "poach-resistant". The NCC v2.0 seems to provide that.

UNC and UMKC fit in the Summit. Old NCC and I-29.

Western Illinois and Southern Indiana fit in the OVC. USI has a brand new arena and proud basketball history. WIU gets readymade rivals in EIU and SIUE.

Robert Morris and Fort Wayne fit in the Horizon. RMU has a new arena and is nearby Youngstown. Fort Wayne is in the heart of the footprint and plays in a historic venue — Allen County War Memorial Coliseum. Actually heard it namedropped during the Winter Classic. If you ever go there, there’s a kiosk of Fort Wayne sports history you can’t take your eyes off. Cool war memorial too.

(01-25-2019 08:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

Wayne State Michigan have been on and off talks with The Horizon to join. The problem would be their football. MVFC football members would love to have them in the conference.

Summit:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
N. Colorado
N. Iowa

MVFC:
Illinois State
Murray State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Wayne State Michigan

It closes up the gaps in the MVFC a lot. Wayne State's academics are R1 standing. West would be called Summit and East would be called MVC.

Horizon isn’t talking with Wayne State. It’ll be Robert Morris and Fort Wayne if they expand.

Losing Detroit to MVC would be a blow to the Horizon. Wayne State is in Detroit. They do fit in. They could invite both schools.

The UMKC move to the WAC was a weird one. They thought it would be better for recruiting under the WAC banner as opposed to playing in the acrtic circle conference.

If they could get a MVC or even a Horizon offer I'm sure they are gone.

(01-25-2019 08:14 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  Joeben69- your proposal makes a lot of sense, especially for the Summit, BSC, and WAC. You'd have to talk the Horizon into it which has balked at P-Ft. Wayne in the past. Western Illinois makes more sense in the OVC with schools like EIU, SIU-E, SEMO. (If Murray were to go to MVC, WIU could slip in.).

But then you get into personalities, memories, and feelings. Supposedly the Summit still has heartburn over UMKC's bolting to the WAC a few years ago. I say, "Get over it". The Summit needs a conference that is stable and "poach-resistant". The NCC v2.0 seems to provide that.

i believe that the admin who approved the UMKC move to the WAC are gone now...i don't think that the summit would be to uptight about UMKC returning if they lost Ft. Wayne & W. Illinois...UMKC would be a non-fb replacement and N. CO would a fb replacement...

i would add that UNO explore restarting football for a 8/10 configuration...

summit could possibly start sponsoring football and withdraw from the MVFC...

(01-24-2019 11:08 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  MVC has to wait on Dayton & St Lious
if they get in BE, then it's time to move on

Saint Louis doesn’t want MVC from what I read. Maybe Dayton does, but not Saint Louis from what I read on that MVC article. There’s a couple of schools I was surprised that the MVC wasn’t looking at: Lipscomb in the A-Sun (sometimes I wonder if people forget that they are located in Nashville too and as a rival of Belmont, they definitely have some basketball pedigree) and Bellarmine. True, Bellarmine is a D2 school, but the A-Sun has been looking at them and they are a private school, which would keep that public-private balance in the MVC.

(01-25-2019 08:56 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 08:10 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:58 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 12:46 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  

(01-24-2019 11:07 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Is the Summit looking for a 10th member? Northern Colorado would make a lot of sense on top of being the 6th member required for Summit football.
Makes a lot of sense for everyone

Univ of Northern Colorado get tossed out a lot. It would help to have a real travel partner for Univ of Denver. UNC was in the old d2 North Central Conf with the 4 Dakotas and Omaha. UNC was good back then and hasn't done so well in the Big Sky.

The thought is that the 10th spot is being held for Augustana (also an old NCC member). Augie announced their desire to go d1. I'm guessing that they will have to hit some financial benchmarks before the Summit will extend an offer. But Augie has some rich people behind them.

You can see that the Summit is building a core of schools far enough west so that the Horizon League will stop poaching them when their schools get poached by the Missouri Valley Conference.

Wayne State Michigan have been on and off talks with The Horizon to join. The problem would be their football. MVFC football members would love to have them in the conference.

Summit:
NDSU
UND
SDSU
USD
Missouri State
N. Colorado
N. Iowa

MVFC:
Illinois State
Murray State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown State
Wayne State Michigan

It closes up the gaps in the MVFC a lot. Wayne State's academics are R1 standing. West would be called Summit and East would be called MVC.

Horizon isn’t talking with Wayne State. It’ll be Robert Morris and Fort Wayne if they expand.

Losing Detroit to MVC would be a blow to the Horizon. Wayne State is in Detroit. They do fit in. They could invite both schools.

The thing about Detroit-Mercy is that they have been rocked by a scandal not too long ago. I can see why the MVC would be very hesitant to take them. However, Oakland University, which is also located in Detroit, is scandal-free and doing well, not to mention that the MVC has taken an interest in them. Maybe Oakland combined with Wayne State could be a winner for the MVC.

Wayne state is D2. Maybe the MVC should get Hillsdale college also D2 to jump and pair them with Murray state so you get the pubic /private thing balanced. I believe Hillsdale endowment is quite large so they got the money to make a move. They sure like to market themselves so going d1 is another marketing campaign. However, most other colleges probably don't like them much being they are conservative.

Y'all realize that Oakland is a PUBLIC School, right? So pairing them with another public school is a non-starter.


Hillsdale College only has 1400 students. Not too mention it would be toxic to the public schools plus the secular privates

(01-25-2019 01:34 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  

(01-25-2019 08:14 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  Joeben69- your proposal makes a lot of sense, especially for the Summit, BSC, and WAC. You'd have to talk the Horizon into it which has balked at P-Ft. Wayne in the past. Western Illinois makes more sense in the OVC with schools like EIU, SIU-E, SEMO. (If Murray were to go to MVC, WIU could slip in.).

But then you get into personalities, memories, and feelings. Supposedly the Summit still has heartburn over UMKC's bolting to the WAC a few years ago. I say, "Get over it". The Summit needs a conference that is stable and "poach-resistant". The NCC v2.0 seems to provide that.

i believe that the admin who approved the UMKC move to the WAC are gone now...i don't think that the summit would be to uptight about UMKC returning if they lost Ft. Wayne & W. Illinois...UMKC would be a non-fb replacement and N. CO would a fb replacement...

i would add that UNO explore restarting football for a 8/10 configuration...

summit could possibly start sponsoring football and withdraw from the MVFC...

I know the Horizon at one point had their sights set on a grand 12 or 14 team conference.

UMKC might be enticed by something like that on the table, possibly even St. Louis if they aren't feeling it with the travel costs in the A10.

For Dayton the MVC is a travel push and the east coast exposure in the A10 is probably worth it.

Horizon in some ways is more expandable than the MVC since they already have a Kentucky presence with NKU.

What about UNO, UMKC, St. Louis and Belmont to the Horizon?

Could they get an A10 type basketball deal? They would actually have more markets than the MVC with Ohio/Michigan schools.

The best the MVC could offer to 14 is with UMKC, St. Louis, Murray St and Belmont but with no Nebraska/Ohio/Michigan presence.

Horizon’s options would be Robert Morris, Fort Wayne, UMKC, SIUE, USI, or maybe Bellarmine.

Belmont turned down the MVC overtures. I doubt they would do a public Horizon

(01-25-2019 06:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  What about UNO, UMKC, St. Louis and Belmont to the Horizon?

I think UNO likes being with the Dakota schools. They "auditioned" for the MVC; I think because of the possibility of higher income (UNO didn't pass the audition). I don't think UNO fans really would prefer giving up the Dakotas and Denver for...SIU, Evansville, Bradley in the MVC...although playing Drake and UNI would be cool.

But a conference with UMKC, UI-C, UW-M, IUPUI, Oakland, Cleveland State, NKU- *urban branch campuses- that could appeal to administrators. They consider those to be their peer institutions.

But I hope that never happens. UNO is in the right conference in the Summit with the Dakotas IMO.
-----
*oops- I used the old term out of habit. The preferred new wording is "metropolitan university". I apologize to the marketing department.

MVC wants to stay a top 10 BB conf
They need to wait on final answer from St Lious & Dayton
St Lious ends up in BE, Dayton might get left behind being so close to Cincinnati
MVC needs Murrey St, Mill & UMKC to help protect conf tourn

(01-24-2019 02:10 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  11 is doable for men's basketball, MVC did it for a couple seasons when Evansville joined and before Tulsa left for the WAC. But it essentially needs a 22 date schedule instead of 18. But 11 is really horrible for all the other sports in the conference, especially the ones that use travel partners.

The team sports other than the mandatory M&W Basketball that have all the schools in it are softball and W volleyball. Baseball is 8, M soccer is 7, W soccer is 8.

I don't think it's any more of an issue for W volleyball than for W BBall, so it really boils down to whether extra difficulty scheduling Softball is a roadblock.

(01-25-2019 08:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Belmont turned down the MVC overtures. I doubt they would do a public Horizon

Yup.

Considering the Horizon has just about lost all of its private school members, I wonder if that’s partly why Robert Morris didn’t get the last two calls, to replace private schools who left for MVC.

Not terribly long ago, one would hear that he** would freeze over before IUPUI would get into Horizon. That was probably true...when Butler, Loyola, and Valpo were voting members...

Not sure why the horizon doesn’t add IUFW and Robert Morris. I think U of Detroit could grow into a nice addition for the MVC to get to 12 with M state. Also, not sure why any small league would expand past 12