(06-28-2019 04:31 PM)pesik Wrote:  jayden gardner has historic level PER: he now uses PER as the end all be all to decide who is good, and said he was the best player in the entire conference last year and every coach in america if they were building a team from aac players would take gardener 1st

Now?

I have been using the same tools for a decade.

This is just a lie that I've come up with this a few months ago. I also use Net Rating for team winning impact/ defense, True Shooting etc just as prominently as well as watch games.

Here is a thread about Adonis Thomas from 2013, where we had similar debates about how overatted he was. He absolutely was. As you can see this is something I have followed for years, and as a method of projecting I can tell you it's right FAR more than it's wrong.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-619893-post-89...pid8997425

That thread is basically a repeat of this nonsense and illogical "look at these last 3 games" BS you come up with.

(06-28-2019 04:11 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Say what you want about Grimes and his PER, but you're crazy if you think Dooley wouldn't give his left nut to have him suiting up in the purple and gold. You don't get a top 10 recruiting rating and 36 starts as a freshman for a blue blood if you're not an elite talent.

It's not just his PER, it's EVERY stat including the fact they lost by 10+ points per 100 possessions with him on the court. He was complete dead weight that contributed to losing basketball.

That' incredible and hard to do in that ecoystem when you have starter talent around him that they still lost those 28 minutes he was on the court and had to be rescued the other 12 he was off the court from losing those games. The guy was terrible and if you really believe he's a 5 star top 10 player in that class today after that showing you guys are nuts.

Self probably started him because I would assume he promised him a starting spot when he signed and if he didn't uphold that promise it might hurt him in recruiting others. Also I imagine he thought at least the first 15 or 20 games that he would improve or get his crap together at some point.

(06-28-2019 04:13 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  Whats your point? Are you saying Grimes will suck at Houston and wouldn't start at ECU?

I'm highly skeptical of him or if I would even want him on the court at all much less starting on our team as badly as he's already failed in an ecosystem like Kansas where it's hard to fail. I'll take my chances because when you flop at the level he did as hard as he did most don't then become studs. It's not much opportunity cost there other than a flyer because the chance he becomes a stud are not that great after that showing.

This reminds me somewhat of a former top 40 recruit named Anton Gill from Louisville. He was rumored to be coming to ECU after transfering from there, and his father had played here. There are threads on this AAC board where I said I hope he doesn't come to ECU because I didn't even want him and was thankful he went on to Nebraska where he completely sucked as a junior and and had a pretty marginal senior year. We didn't lose anything, not to mention the year we'd have had to sit on a scholarship while he sat out only to suck the next year. These same idiots said I was crazy then too but I wasn't.

(06-29-2019 05:43 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 04:11 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Say what you want about Grimes and his PER, but you're crazy if you think Dooley wouldn't give his left nut to have him suiting up in the purple and gold. You don't get a top 10 recruiting rating and 36 starts as a freshman for a blue blood if you're not an elite talent.

It's not just his PER, it's EVERY stat including the fact they lost by 10+ points per 100 possessions with him on the court. He was complete dead weight that contributed to losing basketball.

That' incredible and hard to do when you have starter talent around him that they still lost those 28 minutes he was on the court and had to be rescued the other 12 he was off the court from losing those games. The guy was terrible and if you really believe he's a 5 star top 10 player in that class today after that showing you guys are nuts.

Self probably started him because I would assume he promised him a starting spot when he signed and if he didn't uphold that promise it might hurt him in recruiting others. Also I imagine he thought at least the first 15 or 20 games that he would improve or get his crap together at some point.

this last paragraph sums you up perfectly...
you come to conclusions you like and then make up evidence to fit that narrative

you think a hall of fame coach just started a recruit because of rankings for 36 straight games to keep up a facade??
he benched other elite recruits for grimes!! (one was starter the previous year)
he has benched so many elite recruits over the years!

you dont see how implausibly dumb that is

ps this is bill sellf describing grimes

Quote:“I think that I would say he’s probably as complete a guard as we’ve ever had,” Self said of Grimes, “He can shoot, he can pass, he can dribble, he can score at all three levels. He’s a really good player right now. But what I think impressed me as much as anything is that he’s bright, and as good as he is, he’s competitive enough that I think he could be really special.

here is self right before the tournament (SELF HAS COACHED IN A BLUE BLOOD FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS)

Quote:"Quentin is probably the most well-rounded young guard we've ever had here," he says. "When you think about guards, his handle, explosiveness, strength, range, vision, toughness—he checks a lot of boxes.

in his presser after grimes left self thanked grimes and noted they wouldn't have won so many games without him!!

you dont know more than a hall of fame coach..stop making up theories
ps. no one is denying he didnt have freshmen struggles shooting (was inefficient)..but you are acting like that is the only way to effect a game...

in 2017-18- sampson called galen the most important player to us winning (as he was our top defender and we won games by defense)
you used PER to define good- galen robinson had a PER of 11 that year

you are using net rating to define who is good at defense..when galen had the worst net rating of every major player (got over 12mins per game) for houston in 2017
- yet sampson called him the best on-ball defender he has ever coached during that year..brian gregory called him the best defender in the conference

but im sure you know more than than hall of fame coaches... and clearly those stats dont need context
galen was clearly dead weight we started for no reason and was carried by everyone else

(06-29-2019 06:33 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 05:43 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(06-28-2019 04:11 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Say what you want about Grimes and his PER, but you're crazy if you think Dooley wouldn't give his left nut to have him suiting up in the purple and gold. You don't get a top 10 recruiting rating and 36 starts as a freshman for a blue blood if you're not an elite talent.

It's not just his PER, it's EVERY stat including the fact they lost by 10+ points per 100 possessions with him on the court. He was complete dead weight that contributed to losing basketball.

That' incredible and hard to do when you have starter talent around him that they still lost those 28 minutes he was on the court and had to be rescued the other 12 he was off the court from losing those games. The guy was terrible and if you really believe he's a 5 star top 10 player in that class today after that showing you guys are nuts.

Self probably started him because I would assume he promised him a starting spot when he signed and if he didn't uphold that promise it might hurt him in recruiting others. Also I imagine he thought at least the first 15 or 20 games that he would improve or get his crap together at some point.

this last paragraph sums you up perfectly...
you come to conclusions you like and then make up evidence to fit that narrative

you think a hall of fame coach just started a recruit because of rankings for 36 straight games to keep up a facade??
he benched other elite recruits for grimes!! (one was starter the previous year)
he has benched so many elite recruits over the years!

you dont see how implausibly dumb that is

ps this is bill sellf describing grimes

Quote:“I think that I would say he’s probably as complete a guard as we’ve ever had,” Self said of Grimes, “He can shoot, he can pass, he can dribble, he can score at all three levels. He’s a really good player right now. But what I think impressed me as much as anything is that he’s bright, and as good as he is, he’s competitive enough that I think he could be really special.

here is self right before the tournament (SELF HAS COACHED IN A BLUE BLOOD FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS)

Quote:"Quentin is probably the most well-rounded young guard we've ever had here," he says. "When you think about guards, his handle, explosiveness, strength, range, vision, toughness—he checks a lot of boxes.

in his presser after grimes left self thanked grimes and noted they wouldn't have won so many games without him!!

you dont know more than a hall of fame coach..stop making up theories
ps. no one is denying he didnt have freshmen struggles shooting (was inefficient)..but you are acting like that is the only way to effect a game...

in 2017-18- sampson called galen the most important player to us winning (as he was our top defender and we won games by defense)
you used PER to define good- galen robinson had a PER of 11 that year

you are using net rating to define who is good at defense..when galen had the worst net rating of every major player (got over 12mins per game) for houston in 2017
- yet sampson called him the best on-ball defender he has ever coached that year..brian gregory called him the best defender in the conference

but im sure you know more than than hall of fame coaches... and clearly those stats dont need context
galen was clearly dead weight we started for no reason and was carried by everyone else

Ever hear of coach speak? Coaches talk a lot of BS and you can take most of what they say with a grain of salt when talking about players they have personal relationships with. When have you ever heard someone say a player sucks? It's a one sided conversation always and it ridiculous to even post these empty quotes. This is the kind of crap you constantly come up with than think it's gospel though.

Robinson had a 13.3 career PER and a +8 career net rating, those numbers pushed up to 15.8 and +21 net rating as a senior too. He also had a 15.8 PER and +5.4 net rating as a freshman. He was a solid player by the metrics most of his career, it's not like he was some 8.7 PER .....-10.2 net rating loser. He slumped his sophmore and Jr seasons some but he had already proven a lot as a freshman already which is why he likely kept getting chances and had some residual good faith from them remembering how good he was as a freshman and expecting it to come back which it eventually did. Grimes as proven nothing positive, it's all negative and there is a reason this guy isn't back at Kansas.

(06-29-2019 06:51 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Ever hear of coach speak? Coaches talk a lot of BS and you can take most of what they say with a grain of salt when talking about players they have personal relationships with. When have you ever heard someone say a player sucks? It's a one sided conversation always.

Robinson had a 13.3 career PER and a +8 career net rating, those numbers pushed up to 15.8 and +21 as a senior too. He also had a 15.8 PER and +5.4 net rating as a freshman. He was a good player, it's not like he was some 8.7 PER loser, -10.2 net rating loser. He slumped his sophmore and Jr seasons some but he had already proven a lot. Grimes as proven nothing and there is a reason this guy isn't back at Kansas.

lol galen struggled badly his freshmen year, sampson said he only started out of necessity (didnt have players then)..it was his sophomore and junior year he broke out (he didnt have a slump)
here is sampson talking about it..and he even says in the question "this isnt coach speak "
https://youtu.be/Pf3xeyMJJx8

noted that galen didnt know his strength and weaknesses and had to talk to him about it..he was taking up too many shots as a freshmen (which ironically increased per) and was a lazy defender..that it needed to reverse

stop deflecting and answer the question..you could be a politician

when i say career you deflect to favorable year.. when i point to a specific year you deflect to career....

answer the question:
you called cam reddish trash for a 13 PER

in galen junior season had a PER of 11.. which according to you is trash
galen also had the worst Net rating of any major player that year (over 13mins a game)...according to you is horrible defense

sampson called him one of the biggest piece to us to winning (1st NCAA atlarge in 25 years)
samspon called Galen in his junior year, the best on-ball defender he has coached in his career

by every definition you have stated galen is trash and was dead weight as a junior and his defense was horrible, we foolishly started him...and you obviously know more than kelvin Sampson..

do you agree or disagree????

(06-29-2019 07:12 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 06:51 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Ever hear of coach speak? Coaches talk a lot of BS and you can take most of what they say with a grain of salt when talking about players they have personal relationships with. When have you ever heard someone say a player sucks? It's a one sided conversation always.

Robinson had a 13.3 career PER and a +8 career net rating, those numbers pushed up to 15.8 and +21 as a senior too. He also had a 15.8 PER and +5.4 net rating as a freshman. He was a good player, it's not like he was some 8.7 PER loser, -10.2 net rating loser. He slumped his sophmore and Jr seasons some but he had already proven a lot. Grimes as proven nothing and there is a reason this guy isn't back at Kansas.

lol galen struggled badly his freshmen year, sampson said he only started out of necessity (didnt have players then)..it was his sophomore and junior year he broke out (he didnt have a slump)
here is sampson talking about it..and he even says in the question "this isnt coach speak "
https://youtu.be/Pf3xeyMJJx8

noted that galen didnt know his strength and weaknesses and had to talk to him about it..he was taking up too many shots as a freshmen (which ironically increased per) and was a lazy defender..that it needed to reverse

stop deflecting and answer the question..you could be a politician

when i say career you deflect to favorable year.. when i point to a specific year you deflect to career....

answer the question:
you called cam reddish trash for a 13 PER

in galen junior season had a PER of 11.. which according to you is trash
galen also had the worst Net rating of any major player that year (over 13mins a game)...according to you is horrible defense

sampson called him one of the biggest piece to us to winning (1st NCAA atlarge in 25 years)
samspon called Galen in his junior year, the best on-ball defender he has coached in his career

by every definition you have stated galen is trash and was dead weight as a junior and his defense was horrible, we foolishly started him...and you obviously know more than kelvin Sampson..

do you agree or disagree????

Good god, do you even understand context, you obviously don't understand the concept of coach speak or how often it's total BS coming out of coaches mouths with all the personal relationships they have to manage with these players. Yes Reddish was trash in the context you were talking about him, as if he was one of the best players in the country, superstar blue chipper etc. Had you talked about him as an average role player like he actually performed like I wouldn't have called him trash. I would have said yes he's and a decent role player but that wasn't the context or standard YOU were holding him too, duh.

Galen Robinson was a good role player, what are we even talking about that dude for. He had multiple years where he had solid above average PER's and even great net ratings which captures a lot of the team defensive values PER misses. I'm fully on board with him being of value, especially last year defensively. He backed it on the court and it comes out in the numbers.

He wasn't Grimes level bad and even when he slumped as a sophmore he had already set a positive baseline which warranted sticking with him which Grimes hasn't. Just another poor example and over belief in others opinion's who in fact have bias invested interest and personal relationships with these people.

(06-29-2019 07:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Good god, do you even understand context, you obviously don't understand the concept of coach speak or how often it's total BS coming out of coaches mouths with all the personal relationships they have to manage with these players. Yes Reddish was trash in the context you were talking about him, as if he was one of the best players in the country, superstar blue chipper etc. Had you talked about him as an average role player like he actually performed like I wouldn't have called him trash. I would have said yes he's and a decent role player but that wasn't the context or standard YOU were holding him too. Galen Robinson was a good role player, what are we even talking about that dude for. He had multiple years where he had solid PER's and even great net ratings which captures a lot of the team defensive values PER misses. He isn't anything like Grimes. Just another poor example and over belief in others opinion's who in fact have bias invested interest.

so you just deflected again....when given evidence that counters a belief of your yours, you simply avoid it exists and deflect..

ps: you called cam reddish trash, who had nothing to do with winning ..i noted he played a role in them winning, you said no he didnt, he had nothing to do with them winning and used his PER of 13 as the reason.

that was the real context of that conversation. it wasnt about being a superstar/blue chip... i said they already had stars not everyone can be the star...that was legitimately "my point"...you said he brought nothing even as a role player

you completely avoided answering the question...did not address the net rating at all in respect to galens defense in 2017..and pretend that whole part didnt exist..

and then when i stated i know grimes wasn't the star at kansas, but he was a key role player because they didn't need him to be the star...you say he wasnt with his PER of 9...
but then say galen can be good role player with a marginal difference of a 11 PER

ive shown you film, gave direct quotes from the coach and even pointed to major role players who ranked low in your stats of preference ..nothing is reaching you..nothing ever does

-- who knows maybe you are right, ncaa hall of fame coach with 20years of elite experience and tenure ..started a trash player of no value for 36 straight games because he thought that 1 player would destroy his recruiting clout, and everyone would ignore his decades of putting players in the draft from a promise {with no existing proof } that other recruits could see..

it makes sense..we'll agree too disagree

(06-29-2019 07:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Galen Robinson was a good role player, what are we even talking about that dude for. He had multiple years where he had solid above average PER's and even great net ratings which captures a lot of the team defensive values PER misses. I'm fully on board with him being of value, especially last year defensively. He backed it on the court and it comes out in the numbers.

He wasn't Grimes level bad and even when he slumped as a sophmore he had already set a positive baseline which warranted sticking with him which Grimes hasn't. Just another poor example and over belief in others opinion's who in fact have bias invested interest and personal relationships with these people.

galen didn't slump as a sophomore year..Sampson called it his breakout year..

you used net rating to define defense for grimes.. in 2017 arguable galens best defensive year he had extremely poor net ratings
--are we switching back and forth to which ever stat favors our point?

I'm glad it's somebody else's time in the barrel, lol.

(06-29-2019 08:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(06-29-2019 07:41 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Good god, do you even understand context, you obviously don't understand the concept of coach speak or how often it's total BS coming out of coaches mouths with all the personal relationships they have to manage with these players. Yes Reddish was trash in the context you were talking about him, as if he was one of the best players in the country, superstar blue chipper etc. Had you talked about him as an average role player like he actually performed like I wouldn't have called him trash. I would have said yes he's and a decent role player but that wasn't the context or standard YOU were holding him too. Galen Robinson was a good role player, what are we even talking about that dude for. He had multiple years where he had solid PER's and even great net ratings which captures a lot of the team defensive values PER misses. He isn't anything like Grimes. Just another poor example and over belief in others opinion's who in fact have bias invested interest.

so you just deflected again....when given evidence that counters a belief of your yours, you simply avoid it exists and deflect..

ps: you called cam reddish trash, who had nothing to do with winning ..i noted he played a role in them winning, you said no he didnt, he had nothing to do with them winning and used his PER of 13 as the reason.

that was the real context of that conversation. it wasnt about being a superstar/blue chip... i said they already had stars not everyone can be the star...that was legitimately "my point"...you said he brought nothing even as a role player

you completely avoided answering the question...did not address the net rating at all in respect to galens defense in 2017..and pretend that whole part didnt exist..

and then when i stated i know grimes wasn't the star at kansas, but he was a key role player because they didn't need him to be the star...you say he wasnt with his PER of 9...
but then say galen can be good role player with a marginal difference of a 11 PER

ive shown you film, gave direct quotes from the coach and even pointed to major role players who ranked low in your stats of preference ..nothing is reaching you..nothing ever does

-- who knows maybe you are right, ncaa hall of fame coach with 20years of elite experience and tenure ..started a trash player of no value for 36 straight games because he thought that 1 player would destroy his recruiting clout, and everyone would ignore his decades of putting players in the draft from a promise {with no existing proof } that other recruits could see..

it makes sense..we'll agree too disagree

You clearly don't understand coach speak and just how worthless that pillar of you rational is. These coaches say lost of BS, many times to pump up confidence of a player. There is no coach out there really crapping on his own players and telling the truth, why would he. It's a reflection on himself for bringing him there and counter productive.

Worthless waste of time sighting most of those quotes and I could care less what Sampson says about his own player he has a vested interest in or Self either. Robinson clearly had his down years where he wasn't good, and there is a big difference ins 15.8 PER, +21 net rating and a 8.7 PER -10.2. There is nothing to disagree on, you are just flat out wrong and your logic is flawed. Here is how Hollinger losely categorizes PER levels for the NBA.

All-time great season 35.0+
Runaway MVP candidate 30.0-35.0
Strong MVP candidate 27.5-30.0
Weak MVP candidate 25.0-27.5
Definite All-Star 22.5-25.0
Borderline All-Star 20.0-22.5
Second offensive option 18.0-20.0
Third offensive option 16.5-18.0
Slightly above-average player 15.0-16.5
Rotation player 13.0-15.0
Non-rotation player 11.0-13.0
Fringe roster player 9.0-11.0
Player who won't stick in the league 0-9.0

Big difference in 9.0 and 15.0. One is above average, and one is as bad as you get. There is a big difference in 15.0 and 11.0 too

What would an ECU fan know about college basketball?

(06-30-2019 12:51 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  What would an ECU fan know about college basketball?

How strong is your grasp of logic and philosophical theory? Because prepare for a metaphysical debate that boils down to "do you have to be a chef to know the soup tastes bad?"

(06-30-2019 12:54 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 12:51 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  What would an ECU fan know about college basketball?

How strong is your grasp of logic and philosophical theory? Because prepare for a metaphysical debate that boils down to "do you have to be a chef to know the soup tastes bad?"

No. You have to eat food everyday, its required for life. ECU basketball is like the plague, you don't willingly expose yourself to it. I wouldn't watch ECU basketball if I was an ECU fan.

(06-30-2019 12:51 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  What would an ECU fan know about college basketball?

I don't know, ask Nate Duncan who is a Tulane grad and one of the smartest basketball commentators there is, with a top 5 NBA podcast. Obviously a lot of people like to listen to him, enough that he quit his law firm to talk about basketball.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/...king-money

Pretty dumb logic, that you can't learn or have knowledge of things that interest you if you follow terrible teams.

(06-30-2019 12:49 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Again, you don't understand coach speak and just how worthless that pillar of you rational is. These coaches say lost of BS, many times to pump up confidence of a player. There is no coach out there really crapping on his own players and telling the truth, why would he. Worthless. I could care less what Sampson says about his own player, he clearly had his down years where he wasn't good, and there is a big difference ins 15.8 PER, +21 net rating and a 8.7 PER -10.2. There is nothing to disagree on, you are just flat out wrong and your logic is flawed as hell. Here is how Hollinger himself categorizes PER levels for the NBA.

All-time great season 35.0+
Runaway MVP candidate 30.0-35.0
Strong MVP candidate 27.5-30.0
Weak MVP candidate 25.0-27.5
Definite All-Star 22.5-25.0
Borderline All-Star 20.0-22.5
Second offensive option 18.0-20.0
Third offensive option 16.5-18.0
Slightly above-average player 15.0-16.5
Rotation player 13.0-15.0
Non-rotation player 11.0-13.0
Fringe roster player 9.0-11.0
Player who won't stick in the league 0-9.0

Big difference in 9.0 and 15.8. One is above average, and one is as bad as you get.

bold part-
first of all that is not true..sampson regulary craps on our players ...in that very video i put up ..he says galen shouldnt be shooting and that was a problem his freshman year

he said maybe 3 players on our year 1 roster with him deserved d1 scholarships

he said dejon last season was built like a high school junior
he said hinton is naturally aggressive and wants to take all the shots, but he has to learn that he decides who shoots "its not a democracy", and this season it wont be him, and didnt trust him yet in a interview last season

when asked who on the roster could be drafted in the future 3 months ago, he only listed 3 that have a chance (out of the 11 on the roster at the time)..he could have bs and sid "all"

he says more bad than good about our players..which is why whenever he says something good about a player we gravitate towards it....

every coach isnt lying...especially when what they are saying doesnt fit your narrative

(06-30-2019 01:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(06-30-2019 12:49 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Again, you don't understand coach speak and just how worthless that pillar of you rational is. These coaches say lost of BS, many times to pump up confidence of a player. There is no coach out there really crapping on his own players and telling the truth, why would he. Worthless. I could care less what Sampson says about his own player, he clearly had his down years where he wasn't good, and there is a big difference ins 15.8 PER, +21 net rating and a 8.7 PER -10.2. There is nothing to disagree on, you are just flat out wrong and your logic is flawed as hell. Here is how Hollinger himself categorizes PER levels for the NBA.

All-time great season 35.0+
Runaway MVP candidate 30.0-35.0
Strong MVP candidate 27.5-30.0
Weak MVP candidate 25.0-27.5
Definite All-Star 22.5-25.0
Borderline All-Star 20.0-22.5
Second offensive option 18.0-20.0
Third offensive option 16.5-18.0
Slightly above-average player 15.0-16.5
Rotation player 13.0-15.0
Non-rotation player 11.0-13.0
Fringe roster player 9.0-11.0
Player who won't stick in the league 0-9.0

Big difference in 9.0 and 15.8. One is above average, and one is as bad as you get.

bold part-
first of all that is not true..sampson regulary craps on our players ...in that very video i put up ..he says galen shouldnt be shooting and that was a problem his freshman year

he said maybe 3 players on our year 1 roster with him deserved d1 scholarships

he said dejon last season was built like a high school junior
he said hinton is naturally aggressive and wants to take all the shots, but he has to learn that he decides who shoots "its not a democracy", and this season it wont be him, and didnt trust him yet in a interview last season

when asked who on the roster could be drafted in the future 3 months ago, he only listed 3 that have a chance (out of the 11 on the roster at the time)..he could have bs and sid "all"

he says more bad than good about our players..which is why whenever he says something good about a player we gravitate towards it....

every coach isnt lying...especially when what they are saying doesnt fit your narrative

Most are, and saying something like someone is built like a high school junior ortoo aggressive isn't real criticism. It's ridiculous we are even having this conversation. Yeah coaches poor mouth their players sometimes, and talk the opposing teams up, other times as well as say say crap that isn't true to pump their guys up.

You can't believe much of anything any of them say at face value, there is always a motive behind it to keep them focused, a vested interest in managing their emotions, and a bias personal relationship there that reflects on both. In other worlds coach speak, and it's useless as some pillar of your argument.

also i have no clue about NBA PER..and how it reflects in their league..but college is a completely different game

but will point out Boston just gave semi ojeyele an extension with the worst PER of a multiyear player in the nba (i believe his average PER is 4 or 5)

i also noticed a very interesting trend in our convo yesterday, when i was thinking about elite man to man defensive teams...when noticing galen had poor PER and grimes....
so i looked at the great man to man defensive team that won on defense.....all have major players with poor PER

michigan state who went the final 4, has multiple multiyear starters with dreadful career PER, with some years worse than grimes

kansas has players with worse PER players in their rotations, and regularly produces poor PER guards..Kansas had a a national player of the year, who had a 12 PER his freshman year

ohio state who had the best man to man defense we played last year, who won game on defense and made the tourney....they have 3 players total in their rotation with over a 11 PER..

someone once told me, elite defense is deterrent..its not blocks or steals...and that doesnt get recorded in the stat sheets

(06-30-2019 01:15 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  Most are, and saying something like someone is built like a high school junior ortoo aggressive isn't real criticism. It's ridiculous we are even having this conversation. Yeah coaches poor mouth their players sometimes, and talk the opposing teams up, other times as well as say say crap that isn't true to pump their guys up.

You can't believe much of anything any of them say at face value, there is always a motive behind it to keep them focused, a vested interest in managing their emotions, and a bias personal relationship there that reflects on both. In other worlds coach speak, and it's useless as some pillar of your argument.

saying players didnt dersrve d1 scholarships isnt criticism..ps this was after the season and not a motivation tactic

in the NCAA tourney media days everyone was hyping our team as a team that can make the final 4...he was asked "this team is probably as good as your final 4 in oklahoma and how does it compare"

he flat said that his final 4 team had "better players"..that corey and galen are great defenders but that Oklahoma team is a whole nother level compared to this team...

sampson called antonie davis the best shooter he will ever have had at houston (when he commited) a random 3 star....most of us though that was coach speak as we have had ELITE level shooter (armoni, corey, dotson, etc..)...antonie is now a on pace to break every ncaa shooting record....
you clearly have never listened to any of our coach interview but trying to fit every coach into your cookie cutter mold mold..

you pretend to be logical but just make up theories often and ..you have made it clear you know more than everyone
i give you professional-- you: they know nothing and are blowhards
i give you coaches, and use their given minutes to players as proof-- you: its coach speak

you know more than everyone ..i get it now

(06-30-2019 01:22 PM)pesik Wrote:  also i have no clue about NBA PER..and how it reflects in their league..but college is a completely different game

15.0 is also the adjusted average in college as well so as a scale it translates about the same for how well you are doing vs your level of competition.

Quote:but will point out Boston just gave semi ojeyele an extension with the worst PER of a multiyear player in the nba (i believe his average PER is 4 or 5)

Wonderful, there have been many bad deals handed out over there years and there will be many more bad deals handed out today and moving forward. This doesn't tell you anything more than some dumb thing a coach is doing or saying in many cases. There are dumb GM's too and guys getting fired every year. The difference is you treat them like they don't make mistakes.

Quote:i also noticed a very interesting trend in our convo yesterday, when i was thinking about elite man to man defensive teams...when noticing galen had poor PER and grimes....
so i looked at the great man to man defensive team that won on defense.....all have major players with poor PER

michigan state who went the final 4, has multiple multiyear starters with dreadful career PER, with some years worse than grimes

kansas has players with worse PER players in their rotations, and regularly produces poor PER guards..Kansas had a a national player of the year, who had a 12 PER his freshman year

ohio state who had the best man to man defense we played last year, who won game on defense and made the tourney....they have 3 players total in their rotation with over a 11 PER..

someone once told me, elite defense is deterrent..its not blocks or steals...and that doesnt get recorded in the stat sheets

Which is why I also use net rating and how the team is performing with a player on the court to capture some of the defensive value or offensive gravity a player has PER misses. It's a just a tool, no one has said it's perfect but it's far more informative about what's going on that most, especially when suplemented with other key stats and SOS. Grimes completely sucked there as well and most anyway you cut it.