Who would the SEC have taken if Arkansas had not been available? You still have South Carolina available, but the SEC is motivated to get that 12th team to host a CCG.

- Assume the SWC has its own expansion plans to stabilize itself, so no SWC schools are available as alternatives. The Big Eight schools are also not available, so no OU/OSU.

- Also assume FSU is already locked into the ACC and no one from the ACC is leaving.

- Does the SEC approach Miami? Is Miami even interested? Miami is a very East Coast focused school and has very little culturally or institutionally similar to the SEC schools.

- West Virginia?

- Tulane?

- Virginia Tech? Not yet a major power under Beamer. In fact, they've more or less sucked for a long time right now and Beamer was just 17-26-1 through the 1990 season and had back to back 6 win seasons.

- Someone else? East Carolina was in the midst of a pretty good run at the time. Louisville wasn't yet much of a player.

Playing by your rules, I think maybe Virginia Tech would have still been the right call even back then, getting them into a new state and providing another rival for Tennessee. West Virginia is too much of an outlier (the school itself is closer to Pittsburgh than any SEC cities). East Carolina had less of a statewide presence than VT. Kentucky probably would have done what it could to block Louisville, and LSU for Tulane.

But the SEC has enough cache that I think it could have pulled an ACC/Big Eight/SWC team into the fold. They'd probably press for N.C. State and possibly Clemson, even with the South Carolina overlap. If FSU was still in the Metro, that'd be a no-brainer.

(04-08-2020 01:10 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Playing by your rules, I think maybe Virginia Tech would have still been the right call even back then, getting them into a new state and providing another rival for Tennessee. West Virginia is too much of an outlier (the school itself is closer to Pittsburgh than any SEC cities). East Carolina had less of a statewide presence than VT. Kentucky probably would have done what it could to block Louisville, and LSU for Tulane.

But the SEC has enough cache that I think it could have pulled an ACC/Big Eight/SWC team into the fold. They'd probably press for N.C. State and possibly Clemson, even with the South Carolina overlap. If FSU was still in the Metro, that'd be a no-brainer.

I think you're overestimating the SEC's "cache" in the early 1990s.

In 1991, it had been 11 years since an SEC team won a national title. The ACC had won 2 titles since then (Clemson and Georgia Tech). So had the Big 8 (Oklahoma and Colorado).

I think Florida State would have been the best move for football.

(04-08-2020 01:52 PM)kevinwmsn Wrote:  I think Florida State would have been the best move for football.

The SEC offered once it realized FSU was going to go to the ACC, and FSU turned them down.

(04-08-2020 12:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Who would the SEC have taken if Arkansas had not been available? You still have South Carolina available, but the SEC is motivated to get that 12th team to host a CCG.

- Assume the SWC has its own expansion plans to stabilize itself, so no SWC schools are available as alternatives. The Big Eight schools are also not available, so no OU/OSU.

- Also assume FSU is already locked into the ACC and no one from the ACC is leaving.

- Does the SEC approach Miami? Is Miami even interested? Miami is a very East Coast focused school and has very little culturally or institutionally similar to the SEC schools.

- West Virginia?

- Tulane?

- Virginia Tech? Not yet a major power under Beamer. In fact, they've more or less sucked for a long time right now and Beamer was just 17-26-1 through the 1990 season and had back to back 6 win seasons.

- Someone else? East Carolina was in the midst of a pretty good run at the time. Louisville wasn't yet much of a player.

Houston was discussed numerous times in this era, most notably in 1993 as a package deal with A&M. There are newspaper articles on it.

If the SWC closes ranks and doesn’t budge, they’d have to pull from the ACC or the independents.

Maybe they publicly express interest in Miami to bluff Florida St into choosing them over the ACC and then round out with whichever SC school they can get.

No one from the ACC is moving to the SEC back then. It's still a decade before the football money explosion. Their real target was always TAMU but TAMU needed a cause celebe to break away from the SWC.

Assuming TAMU can't get free from Texas, and no one wants to move from the ACC the only choices are Miami, SC, VT, Pitt, and West Va. If the SEC is bent on going to 12 for the purpose of a playoff I think it would have been Miami and SC as that would keep their rival games with Clemson and FSU and it takes Miami off the board for the ACC.

I would guess they would have split as follows:

Miami, UF, SC, UGa, Auburn, UK
LSU, TN, Ole Miss, MSU, Vandy, Bama

Rivals - TN and UK, Auburn and Bama, Miami and LSU, UGa and Ole Miss, MSU and SC.

That really cramps the ACC's expansion as what's left is Pitt, VT, Syracuse and BC, but no Miami.

(04-08-2020 03:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the SWC closes ranks and doesn’t budge, they’d have to pull from the ACC or the independents.

Maybe they publicly express interest in Miami to bluff Florida St into choosing them over the ACC and then round out with whichever SC school they can get.

Trickery is the best way to start a relationship.

(04-08-2020 12:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Who would the SEC have taken if Arkansas had not been available? You still have South Carolina available, but the SEC is motivated to get that 12th team to host a CCG.

- Assume the SWC has its own expansion plans to stabilize itself, so no SWC schools are available as alternatives. The Big Eight schools are also not available, so no OU/OSU.

- Also assume FSU is already locked into the ACC and no one from the ACC is leaving.

- Does the SEC approach Miami? Is Miami even interested? Miami is a very East Coast focused school and has very little culturally or institutionally similar to the SEC schools.

- West Virginia?

- Tulane?

- Virginia Tech? Not yet a major power under Beamer. In fact, they've more or less sucked for a long time right now and Beamer was just 17-26-1 through the 1990 season and had back to back 6 win seasons.

- Someone else? East Carolina was in the midst of a pretty good run at the time. Louisville wasn't yet much of a player.

Arkansas's Frank Broyles approached the SEC first. He felt that Texas and Texas A&M might be interested as well and there were talks since a breakup of the SWC seemed imminent. Texas had a silent partner that was interested (turned out to be Oklahoma) and of course Florida State was on the table as well. Interested, but tepid, was Clemson.

Texas and Texas A&M pulled out due to political reasons, so Oklahoma fell silent as well. It was Broyles that still wanted in. The SEC approached a network about the valuation of Florida State. That network then saw the potential for moving on Florida State to prevent the SEC from having the top 2 brands in a large state, Florida. Clemson had no interest once F.S.U. committed to the ACC in a offer delivered to them 1 day before the SEC was scheduled to see them and was slightly better than that of the SEC's but then that is possible when the network knows the numbers and the date of the offer.

A Clemson trustee alerted a buddy who was a South Carolina trustee as to the SEC's need of a companion for Arkansas. That's how South Carolina got the offer. There was another applicant at the time, West Virginia (which didn't offer the requisite sports for SEC consideration), and there was a party in talks with the SEC, Virginia Tech. Both were considered too much of a geographic outlier at the time. Morgantown and Blacksburg were really only accessible easily by Tennessee and all other SEC schools would have difficult travel to those venues.

So to address your premise about Arkansas not being interested, which is wholly contrary to the fact that they were the only one who wanted in no matter what, I'd say the SEC would have remained at 10 teams if Arkansas had not been interested. There was another school at the time who was in talks with the SEC and that was T.C.U.. But without Arkansas I don't think we would have seriously considered that. South Carolina got the nod because they were easier for travel. But no Arkansas, no expansion.

What many don't realize is that at that time the plan was to move to 16 and to take the best. The additions were a settle from grander plans, and the SEC actually had what was referred to as a defensive plan which would have considered moving to 20 if the Big 10 tried to expand down the Atlantic Seaboard. That plan would have attempted to reunite many of the teams of the old Southern Conference and was the only one of the initial plans that included Miami.

(04-08-2020 06:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Arkansas's Frank Broyles approached the SEC first. He felt that Texas and Texas A&M might be interested as well and there were talks since a breakup of the SWC seemed imminent. Texas had a silent partner that was interested (turned out to be Oklahoma) and of course Florida State was on the table as well. Interested, but tepid, was Clemson.

Texas and Texas A&M pulled out due to political reasons, so Oklahoma fell silent as well. It was Broyles that still wanted in. The SEC approached a network about the valuation of Florida State. That network then saw the potential for moving on Florida State to prevent the SEC from having the top 2 brands in a large state, Florida. Clemson had no interest once F.S.U. committed to the ACC in a offer delivered to them 1 day before the SEC was scheduled to see them and was slightly better than that of the SEC's but then that is possible when the network knows the numbers and the date of the offer.

A Clemson trustee alerted a buddy who was a South Carolina trustee as to the SEC's need of a companion for Arkansas. That's how South Carolina got the offer. There was another applicant at the time, West Virginia (which didn't offer the requisite sports for SEC consideration), and there was a party in talks with the SEC, Virginia Tech. Both were considered too much of a geographic outlier at the time. Morgantown and Blacksburg were really only accessible easily by Tennessee and all other SEC schools would have difficult travel to those venues.

So to address your premise about Arkansas not being interested, which is wholly contrary to the fact that they were the only one who wanted in no matter what, I'd say the SEC would have remained at 10 teams if Arkansas had not been interested. There was another school at the time who was in talks with the SEC and that was T.C.U.. But without Arkansas I don't think we would have seriously considered that. South Carolina got the nod because they were easier for travel. But no Arkansas, no expansion.

What many don't realize is that at that time the plan was to move to 16 and to take the best. The additions were a settle from grander plans, and the SEC actually had what was referred to as a defensive plan which would have considered moving to 20 if the Big 10 tried to expand down the Atlantic Seaboard. That plan would have attempted to reunite many of the teams of the old Southern Conference and was the only one of the initial plans that included Miami.

I miss the 10 team SEC.

What if the SEC had been able to go from 10 to 16 in 1990? What if they had added Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Clemson, and Florida State, as JR describes? Arkansas was at the top of the SWC, as the rest of the conference was taking turns on probation. OU was in the middle of a hard probation. Texas was Texas, and A&M was pretty good. Clemson was a decade removed from a national championship, and FSU was winning everything but a national championship (those would come). That SEC would have been a juggernaut.

What was left of the Big 8 and SWC would have been really good on the field, but would have struggled to obtain a lucrative TV contract.

(04-08-2020 06:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  So to address your premise about Arkansas not being interested, which is wholly contrary to the fact that they were the only one who wanted in no matter what, I'd say the SEC would have remained at 10 teams if Arkansas had not been interested. There was another school at the time who was in talks with the SEC and that was T.C.U.. But without Arkansas I don't think we would have seriously considered that. South Carolina got the nod because they were easier for travel. But no Arkansas, no expansion.

And, the other scenario: What if TCU had gotten into the SEC in 1990? They were coming off probation and playing in inferior facilities, averaging 25,000 for football attendance. They were primarily finishing in the bottom half of the SWC. But, they were located in DFW. TCU would not have been forced to take the conference world tour of the WAC, C-USA, the MWC, and the Big East (on paper) before landing in the Big 12.

I think The U and Va Tech are the obvious picks.

(04-08-2020 06:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 12:55 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Who would the SEC have taken if Arkansas had not been available? You still have South Carolina available, but the SEC is motivated to get that 12th team to host a CCG.

- Assume the SWC has its own expansion plans to stabilize itself, so no SWC schools are available as alternatives. The Big Eight schools are also not available, so no OU/OSU.

- Also assume FSU is already locked into the ACC and no one from the ACC is leaving.

- Does the SEC approach Miami? Is Miami even interested? Miami is a very East Coast focused school and has very little culturally or institutionally similar to the SEC schools.

- West Virginia?

- Tulane?

- Virginia Tech? Not yet a major power under Beamer. In fact, they've more or less sucked for a long time right now and Beamer was just 17-26-1 through the 1990 season and had back to back 6 win seasons.

- Someone else? East Carolina was in the midst of a pretty good run at the time. Louisville wasn't yet much of a player.

Arkansas's Frank Broyles approached the SEC first. He felt that Texas and Texas A&M might be interested as well and there were talks since a breakup of the SWC seemed imminent. Texas had a silent partner that was interested (turned out to be Oklahoma) and of course Florida State was on the table as well. Interested, but tepid, was Clemson.

Texas and Texas A&M pulled out due to political reasons, so Oklahoma fell silent as well. It was Broyles that still wanted in. The SEC approached a network about the valuation of Florida State. That network then saw the potential for moving on Florida State to prevent the SEC from having the top 2 brands in a large state, Florida. Clemson had no interest once F.S.U. committed to the ACC in a offer delivered to them 1 day before the SEC was scheduled to see them and was slightly better than that of the SEC's but then that is possible when the network knows the numbers and the date of the offer.

A Clemson trustee alerted a buddy who was a South Carolina trustee as to the SEC's need of a companion for Arkansas. That's how South Carolina got the offer. There was another applicant at the time, West Virginia (which didn't offer the requisite sports for SEC consideration), and there was a party in talks with the SEC, Virginia Tech. Both were considered too much of a geographic outlier at the time. Morgantown and Blacksburg were really only accessible easily by Tennessee and all other SEC schools would have difficult travel to those venues.

So to address your premise about Arkansas not being interested, which is wholly contrary to the fact that they were the only one who wanted in no matter what, I'd say the SEC would have remained at 10 teams if Arkansas had not been interested. There was another school at the time who was in talks with the SEC and that was T.C.U.. But without Arkansas I don't think we would have seriously considered that. South Carolina got the nod because they were easier for travel. But no Arkansas, no expansion.

What many don't realize is that at that time the plan was to move to 16 and to take the best. The additions were a settle from grander plans, and the SEC actually had what was referred to as a defensive plan which would have considered moving to 20 if the Big 10 tried to expand down the Atlantic Seaboard. That plan would have attempted to reunite many of the teams of the old Southern Conference and was the only one of the initial plans that included Miami.

A lot of people don't realize what a good get Arkansas was at the time. If you rank by AP poll position, they were tied with Texas for #2 in the 60s (just behind Alabama), #10 in the 70s and still #20 in the 80s.

(04-08-2020 07:41 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I think The U and Va Tech are the obvious picks.

The U was not in an SEC like cultural setting. They played most of their games in the Orange Bowl, and if you want to look at distances Miami was far more the outlier than West Virginia. We are talking '92. At that time they still had a great prestige, but Miami is more of a New England city than a Southern one. They were in the correct place when they were members of the Big East.

Virginia Tech was obviously more of the kind of institution that would have been comfortable in the SEC but without a North Carolina school and only abutting Kentucky and Tennessee the Heart of Dixie's school presidents thought they were too far away.

You need to remember that the '92 expansion was driven more by cultural fit, content value, and market expansion than it was by any Network manipulations. In '92 the presidents were in much more control of additions than they are today. Yes, they still have the final say but that say comes after pages of valuations including the Network who will be paying expressing their desires.

The SEC wanted into Texas in '92 for content and market expansion. Arkansas was seen as a bridge to that region and that decision proved to be correct with the addition of A&M. A South Carolina school was seen as a bridge to North Carolina and Virginia and Clemson was seen as the best bridge at the time. Their president had relationships with the others. South Carolina was an important addition, but it so far hasn't paid the dividends that Arkansas has.

If the SEC ever were to add N.C.State then Va Tech would be viewed extremely favorably as was the case in 2010-1 when another deal fell through.

As to what might have been had T.C.U. joined in full you must remember that in those days (post Bear Bryant) the SEC West was the weaker of the 2 divisions so with SEC money and with the West being down they might have been able to grow competitively better in the SEC West at that time than anywhere else. Resistance inside the SEC was over the size of their alumni base and that fact that 3 of the SEC's privates had not faired well, Sewanee, Tulane, and Vanderbilt. Still they were seen as the much better option due to SMU's death penalty.

Houston would have been taken more seriously had A&M not been obviously interested.

(04-08-2020 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:41 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I think The U and Va Tech are the obvious picks.

The U was not in an SEC like cultural setting. They played most of their games in the Orange Bowl, and if you want to look at distances Miami was far more the outlier than West Virginia. We are talking '92. At that time they still had a great prestige, but Miami is more of a New England city than a Southern one. They were in the correct place when they were members of the Big East.

Virginia Tech was obviously more of the kind of institution that would be have been comfortable in the SEC but without a North Carolina school and only abutting Kentucky and Tennessee the Heart of Dixie's school presidents thought they were too far away.

You need to remember that the '92 expansion was driven more by cultural fit, content value, and market expansion than it was by any Network manipulations. In '92 the presidents were in much more control of additions than they are today. Yes, they still have the final say but that say comes after pages of valuations including the Network who will be paying expressing their desires.

The SEC wanted into Texas in '92 for content and market expansion. Arkansas was seen as a bridge to that region and that decision proved to be correct with the addition of A&M. A South Carolina school was seen as a bridge to North Carolina and Virginia and Clemson was seen as the best bridge at the time. Their president had relationships with the others. South Carolina was an important addition, but it so far hasn't paid the dividends that Arkansas has.

If the SEC ever were to add N.C.State then Va Tech would be viewed extremely favorably as was the case in 2010-1 when another deal fell through.

As to what might have been had T.C.U. joined in full you must remember that in those days (post Bear Bryant) the SEC West was the weaker of the 2 divisions so with SEC money and with the West being down they might have been able to grow competitively better in the SEC West at that time than anywhere else. Resistance inside the SEC was over the size of their alumni base and that fact that 3 of the SEC's privates had not faired well, Sewanee, Tulane, and Vanderbilt. Still they were seen as the much better option due to SMU's death penalty.

Houston would have been taken more seriously had A&M not been obviously interested.

Correct on Miami. The farther south in Florida you go, the farther north you get. They would fit into the SEC about like Syracuse or Boston College.

Virginia Tech was just starting to become a factor in the early 90's. They were an independent in football while Beamer started to build the program (he got off to a slow start). They are a land-grant university in a state the SEC was not in. But, they were really only close to one school (Tennessee), and were a bit of an outlier for the SEC presidents to take a flier on. They soon had better days in football as they moved from independent to the Big East to the ACC, and moved from the Metro to the Atlantic 10 to the Big East to the ACC in all other sports. They would have done well in the SEC had they gone there.

TCU would have won a lottery ticket had they gotten into the SEC. Their road would have been much easier than the path they were forced to take. TCU was not in good shape in the early 90's. I lived in Fort Worth at that time, and they were a joke. Amon Carter Stadium was a dump then, and they only filled it when UT or A&M came to town. But, as they were left behind by the original B12 and moved through conferences, they invested in their program, enlarged their fan base, and became a top program. They earned their way into the P5. However, as you mention, the history of private schools in the SEC is not good. TCU could have easily become Tulane or Vanderbilt.

(04-08-2020 08:53 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:41 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I think The U and Va Tech are the obvious picks.

The U was not in an SEC like cultural setting. They played most of their games in the Orange Bowl, and if you want to look at distances Miami was far more the outlier than West Virginia. We are talking '92. At that time they still had a great prestige, but Miami is more of a New England city than a Southern one. They were in the correct place when they were members of the Big East.

Virginia Tech was obviously more of the kind of institution that would be have been comfortable in the SEC but without a North Carolina school and only abutting Kentucky and Tennessee the Heart of Dixie's school presidents thought they were too far away.

You need to remember that the '92 expansion was driven more by cultural fit, content value, and market expansion than it was by any Network manipulations. In '92 the presidents were in much more control of additions than they are today. Yes, they still have the final say but that say comes after pages of valuations including the Network who will be paying expressing their desires.

The SEC wanted into Texas in '92 for content and market expansion. Arkansas was seen as a bridge to that region and that decision proved to be correct with the addition of A&M. A South Carolina school was seen as a bridge to North Carolina and Virginia and Clemson was seen as the best bridge at the time. Their president had relationships with the others. South Carolina was an important addition, but it so far hasn't paid the dividends that Arkansas has.

If the SEC ever were to add N.C.State then Va Tech would be viewed extremely favorably as was the case in 2010-1 when another deal fell through.

As to what might have been had T.C.U. joined in full you must remember that in those days (post Bear Bryant) the SEC West was the weaker of the 2 divisions so with SEC money and with the West being down they might have been able to grow competitively better in the SEC West at that time than anywhere else. Resistance inside the SEC was over the size of their alumni base and that fact that 3 of the SEC's privates had not faired well, Sewanee, Tulane, and Vanderbilt. Still they were seen as the much better option due to SMU's death penalty.

Houston would have been taken more seriously had A&M not been obviously interested.

Correct on Miami. The farther south in Florida you go, the farther north you get. They would fit into the SEC about like Syracuse or Boston College.

Virginia Tech was just starting to become a factor in the early 90's. They were an independent in football while Beamer started to build the program (he got off to a slow start). They are a land-grant university in a state the SEC was not in. But, they were really only close to one school (Tennessee), and were a bit of an outlier for the SEC presidents to take a flier on. They soon had better days in football as they moved from independent to the Big East to the ACC, and moved from the Metro to the Atlantic 10 to the Big East to the ACC in all other sports. They would have done well in the SEC had they gone there.

TCU would have won a lottery ticket had they gotten into the SEC. Their road would have been much easier than the path they were forced to take. TCU was not in good shape in the early 90's. I lived in Fort Worth at that time, and they were a joke. Amon Carter Stadium was a dump at the time, and they only filled it when UT or A&M came to town. But, as they were left behind by the original B12 and moved through conferences, they invested in their program, enlarged their fan base, and became a top program. They earned their way into the P5. However, as you mention, the history of private schools in the SEC is not good. TCU could have easily become Tulane or Vanderbilt.

The threshold today for value creation is probably way to high for T.C.U.. But let's say in 2010-1 when Boren insisted on OSU and the SEC passed, if Missouri had decided to wait and pine for the Big 10 would the SEC have considered T.C.U. with A&M? It's possible. A&M gave us Houston and T.C.U. and A&M would have delivered enough of DFW which was a significant part of why Oklahoma was the original would be travel companion of Oklahoma. They gave us a 2nd national brand to go with A&M and they delivered DFW.

People like to speculate about WVU being A&M's travel companion if Missouri had said no. I'm not so sure given the ambitions of the SEC in Texas. T.C.U. is would have been an interesting pairing with A&M.

(04-08-2020 09:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 08:53 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 08:12 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-08-2020 07:41 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I think The U and Va Tech are the obvious picks.

The U was not in an SEC like cultural setting. They played most of their games in the Orange Bowl, and if you want to look at distances Miami was far more the outlier than West Virginia. We are talking '92. At that time they still had a great prestige, but Miami is more of a New England city than a Southern one. They were in the correct place when they were members of the Big East.

Virginia Tech was obviously more of the kind of institution that would be have been comfortable in the SEC but without a North Carolina school and only abutting Kentucky and Tennessee the Heart of Dixie's school presidents thought they were too far away.

You need to remember that the '92 expansion was driven more by cultural fit, content value, and market expansion than it was by any Network manipulations. In '92 the presidents were in much more control of additions than they are today. Yes, they still have the final say but that say comes after pages of valuations including the Network who will be paying expressing their desires.

The SEC wanted into Texas in '92 for content and market expansion. Arkansas was seen as a bridge to that region and that decision proved to be correct with the addition of A&M. A South Carolina school was seen as a bridge to North Carolina and Virginia and Clemson was seen as the best bridge at the time. Their president had relationships with the others. South Carolina was an important addition, but it so far hasn't paid the dividends that Arkansas has.

If the SEC ever were to add N.C.State then Va Tech would be viewed extremely favorably as was the case in 2010-1 when another deal fell through.

As to what might have been had T.C.U. joined in full you must remember that in those days (post Bear Bryant) the SEC West was the weaker of the 2 divisions so with SEC money and with the West being down they might have been able to grow competitively better in the SEC West at that time than anywhere else. Resistance inside the SEC was over the size of their alumni base and that fact that 3 of the SEC's privates had not faired well, Sewanee, Tulane, and Vanderbilt. Still they were seen as the much better option due to SMU's death penalty.

Houston would have been taken more seriously had A&M not been obviously interested.

Correct on Miami. The farther south in Florida you go, the farther north you get. They would fit into the SEC about like Syracuse or Boston College.

Virginia Tech was just starting to become a factor in the early 90's. They were an independent in football while Beamer started to build the program (he got off to a slow start). They are a land-grant university in a state the SEC was not in. But, they were really only close to one school (Tennessee), and were a bit of an outlier for the SEC presidents to take a flier on. They soon had better days in football as they moved from independent to the Big East to the ACC, and moved from the Metro to the Atlantic 10 to the Big East to the ACC in all other sports. They would have done well in the SEC had they gone there.

TCU would have won a lottery ticket had they gotten into the SEC. Their road would have been much easier than the path they were forced to take. TCU was not in good shape in the early 90's. I lived in Fort Worth at that time, and they were a joke. Amon Carter Stadium was a dump at the time, and they only filled it when UT or A&M came to town. But, as they were left behind by the original B12 and moved through conferences, they invested in their program, enlarged their fan base, and became a top program. They earned their way into the P5. However, as you mention, the history of private schools in the SEC is not good. TCU could have easily become Tulane or Vanderbilt.

The threshold today for value creation is probably way to high for T.C.U.. But let's say in 2010-1 when Boren insisted on OSU and the SEC passed, if Missouri had decided to wait and pine for the Big 10 would the SEC have considered T.C.U. with A&M? It's possible. A&M gave us Houston and T.C.U. and A&M would have delivered enough of DFW which was a significant part of why Oklahoma was the original would be travel companion of Oklahoma. They gave us a 2nd national brand to go with A&M and they delivered DFW.

2009-2010 happened to be TCU's prime, as they went to back to back BCS bowls, including the win over Wisconsin in the 2011 Rose Bowl. TCU went undefeated in 2010, finishing #2 in the nation. They're still a smaller private school, but they've improved their facilities, increased their fan base (still not huge, but more than what it was), and are located in DFW, which has only gotten bigger. A ticket from the Mountain West to the SEC would have been great for them and bad for the rest of us.

Culture aside, SEC officials visited Miami’s campus after the FSU snub. Miami was non-committal, whereas SC laid out the garnet carpet.

(04-08-2020 09:13 PM)esayem Wrote:  Culture aside, SEC officials visited Miami’s campus after the FSU snub. Miami was non-committal, whereas SC laid out the garnet carpet.

Visiting and offering are two entirely different matters. A visit is an investigation into interest. An offer is a response to it that requires formal votes. No vote was ever held on Miami. And for the record we visited many schools at that time and were even courteous enough to send WVU a prospectus on what they would need to do to be considered.

The SEC's procedures are very well thought out to avoid embarrassment for any school applying. We don't formerly reject anyone's application. If we send a school an application that means we've already agreed the vote on them would be favorable. If a school has to request an application it doesn't mean anything. No vote is held without an application. Then there are 2 votes. The first informal vote is a voice vote and no record is made. It is where true differences of opinion over a candidate are expressed. A school receiving 3/4ths approval will be made an offer which will come after the formal vote which is required to be unanimous, although abstentions are permitted. Then and only then is an offer made. No offer was ever made to Miami because no application was made and no vote was ever held formal or informal. The visit was an inquiry of interest and nothing more.

What some local beat writer who is in need of a story publishes is seldom accurate in these matters because there is too much that is confidential which is exchanged even in an inquiry. Oklahoma and Boren didn't receive an offer. I'm fairly certain they were mailed an application without requesting it which means we would have accepted them. But when Boren insisted on Oklahoma State the issue was dead. And Oklahoma got a lot deeper into the conversation than Miami.

But schools spin this kind of stuff to look more important and they let the beat writers do it for them.

You really can't believe everything you read. The SEC discloses nothing on these matters. It is always the school that leaks whatever which is intended for fans, boosters, or to provide cover for the A.D. or President's interest or lack thereof. I happen to know that Cunningham called the SEC when Maryland departed. His inquiry was only if the worst happened and mass exodus occurred from the ACC. He wanted to know if UNC and Duke had a place. But that release came from UNC where the results of a poll of donors was held. The SEC didn't take a vote and didn't send an application because the interest was predicated upon a need created by circumstances which did not yet exist.