Louisville was very close to being voted out of CUSA because it stood against ECU and Army joining the league. Louisville wanted a limited number of conference football games so we could continue to play Big East, ACC and SEC teams out of conference.

When the league started in 1995, there were 5 conference games. Adding ECU in 1996 that number grew to 6. League games grew again in 2000. There were only 11 games in a season until 2001 when it grew to the 12 we have today. By the time Louisville left CUSA in 2004, we were playing 8 conference games.

Joining CUSA cost us a football coach, Howard Schnellenberger told UofL if they joined CUSA he wouldn’t be able to schedule like he wanted. UofL joined CUSA and Howard moved on to Oklahoma.

In hindsight CUSA was good for Louisville. It gave us a solid schedule and we agreed to play anytime, anywhere against anybody. One season we played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. That got us on ESPN...a lot.

If Mike Slive, Commissioner of CUSA, hadn’t went to bat for UofL, things might have turned out differently.

(07-07-2020 06:45 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2020 12:40 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(07-05-2020 09:06 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Was Temple actually voted out of Big East football? I believe they had a contractual obligation for a minimum attendance number.

The attendance stuff was pretty much BS. It was for lack of investment in our football program. I believe we were reinvesting football money into our basketball program. Our ADs around them were awful. We've essentially restarted our program since then. We'll probably average in the 40K range in the next decade if we keep our trajectory.

There's the reason people who agreed with the motion voted for it, and there's the pro forma reason stated in the motion, which is often what is needed for the motion to be in order.

Temple clearly had not met the requirements that the conference had voted in earlier, and that likely made for a cleaner motion to vote on, even if the reason Presidents voted as they did included matters not mentioned in the motion.

Then reporting the pretext for the vote stated in the motion is an easy cop-out for a reporter, who then doesn't have to chase down on the record remarks about what the vote was really about.

Yes, it wasn’t like the reasons were fabricated from nothing. The strikes were there. I don’t disagree that something else could have pushed it to a vote (I suspect there was some frustration with Temple’s leadership, and Big East schools wanted no more with that), but the faults were there.

I wonder how many times Temple was told to swipe out before the conference did it for them?

Kinda like UNL and Syracuse and the AAU. Two schools caught in the cross hairs for whatever reasons: one self-selected out, and the other booted when attempting to stand their ground.

(07-08-2020 06:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 06:45 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2020 12:40 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(07-05-2020 09:06 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Was Temple actually voted out of Big East football? I believe they had a contractual obligation for a minimum attendance number.

The attendance stuff was pretty much BS. It was for lack of investment in our football program. I believe we were reinvesting football money into our basketball program. Our ADs around them were awful. We've essentially restarted our program since then. We'll probably average in the 40K range in the next decade if we keep our trajectory.

There's the reason people who agreed with the motion voted for it, and there's the pro forma reason stated in the motion, which is often what is needed for the motion to be in order.

Temple clearly had not met the requirements that the conference had voted in earlier, and that likely made for a cleaner motion to vote on, even if the reason Presidents voted as they did included matters not mentioned in the motion.

Then reporting the pretext for the vote stated in the motion is an easy cop-out for a reporter, who then doesn't have to chase down on the record remarks about what the vote was really about.

Yes, it wasn’t like the reasons were fabricated from nothing. The strikes were there. I don’t disagree that something else could have pushed it to a vote (I suspect there was some frustration with Temple’s leadership, and Big East schools wanted no more with that), but the faults were there.

I wonder how many times Temple was told to swipe out before the conference did it for them?

Kinda like UNL and Syracuse and the AAU. Two schools caught in the cross hairs for whatever reasons: one self-selected out, and the other booted when attempting to stand their ground.

I wasn't saying the faults weren't there; just saying attendance wasn't the main reason. Our leadership was beyond incompetent. Temple is a completely different school now in every way.

(07-08-2020 11:12 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 06:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-07-2020 06:45 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-06-2020 12:40 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(07-05-2020 09:06 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  Was Temple actually voted out of Big East football? I believe they had a contractual obligation for a minimum attendance number.

The attendance stuff was pretty much BS. It was for lack of investment in our football program. I believe we were reinvesting football money into our basketball program. Our ADs around them were awful. We've essentially restarted our program since then. We'll probably average in the 40K range in the next decade if we keep our trajectory.

There's the reason people who agreed with the motion voted for it, and there's the pro forma reason stated in the motion, which is often what is needed for the motion to be in order.

Temple clearly had not met the requirements that the conference had voted in earlier, and that likely made for a cleaner motion to vote on, even if the reason Presidents voted as they did included matters not mentioned in the motion.

Then reporting the pretext for the vote stated in the motion is an easy cop-out for a reporter, who then doesn't have to chase down on the record remarks about what the vote was really about.

Yes, it wasn’t like the reasons were fabricated from nothing. The strikes were there. I don’t disagree that something else could have pushed it to a vote (I suspect there was some frustration with Temple’s leadership, and Big East schools wanted no more with that), but the faults were there.

I wonder how many times Temple was told to swipe out before the conference did it for them?

Kinda like UNL and Syracuse and the AAU. Two schools caught in the cross hairs for whatever reasons: one self-selected out, and the other booted when attempting to stand their ground.

I wasn't saying the faults weren't there; just saying attendance wasn't the main reason. Our leadership was beyond incompetent. Temple is a completely different school now in every way.

Well there was one season in the Big East where Temple had 17,000 in attendance---for the ENTIRE season. Think it was 1993. Odd part was that Temple had a better football team than Rutgers at that point.

(07-08-2020 06:08 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Louisville was very close to being voted out of CUSA because it stood against ECU and Army joining the league. Louisville wanted a limited number of conference football games so we could continue to play Big East, ACC and SEC teams out of conference.

When the league started in 1995, there were 5 conference games. Adding ECU in 1996 that number grew to 6. League games grew again in 2000. There were only 11 games in a season until 2001 when it grew to the 12 we have today. By the time Louisville left CUSA in 2004, we were playing 8 conference games.

Joining CUSA cost us a football coach, Howard Schnellenberger told UofL if they joined CUSA he wouldn’t be able to schedule like he wanted. UofL joined CUSA and Howard moved on to Oklahoma.

In hindsight CUSA was good for Louisville. It gave us a solid schedule and we agreed to play anytime, anywhere against anybody. One season we played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. That got us on ESPN...a lot.

If Mike Slive, Commissioner of CUSA, hadn’t went to bat for UofL, things might have turned out differently.

Howard Schnellenberger was living in a bit of delusion, believing the era of the major independents was still going strong. All of the schools Howard wanted to play were all committed to conference schedules and didn’t have the room to play Louisville late in the season.

It would have been interesting to see where things went had he stuck it out and produced 2005-2012 Boise St like results through the 90s.

(07-08-2020 02:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 06:08 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Louisville was very close to being voted out of CUSA because it stood against ECU and Army joining the league. Louisville wanted a limited number of conference football games so we could continue to play Big East, ACC and SEC teams out of conference.

When the league started in 1995, there were 5 conference games. Adding ECU in 1996 that number grew to 6. League games grew again in 2000. There were only 11 games in a season until 2001 when it grew to the 12 we have today. By the time Louisville left CUSA in 2004, we were playing 8 conference games.

Joining CUSA cost us a football coach, Howard Schnellenberger told UofL if they joined CUSA he wouldn’t be able to schedule like he wanted. UofL joined CUSA and Howard moved on to Oklahoma.

In hindsight CUSA was good for Louisville. It gave us a solid schedule and we agreed to play anytime, anywhere against anybody. One season we played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. That got us on ESPN...a lot.

If Mike Slive, Commissioner of CUSA, hadn’t went to bat for UofL, things might have turned out differently.

Howard Schnellenberger was living in a bit of delusion, believing the era of the major independents was still going strong. All of the schools Howard wanted to play were all committed to conference schedules and didn’t have the room to play Louisville late in the season.

It would have been interesting to see where things went had he stuck it out and produced 2005-2012 Boise St like results through the 90s.

You’re correct.
College football was changing around him.
He came to Louisville to try and duplicate what he did at Miami. Save a dying program and lead it to a championship.

He managed to save the program.

Without Howard Louisville would be a basketball only.

(07-05-2020 01:21 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  St. Thomas was forcibly evicted from the MIAC.

"School kicked out of Division III conference for winning too much"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/20...-i-invite/

That was all a charade so they got accepted to DI. St Thomas had been talking to the Summit ever since the Big Dance in Minneapolis.

A story in the Minneapolis paper later named names.
St John's actually had better wins in football but is too small and not wealthy enough and Maclaester wanted back from a Chicago league. St Thomas's old sister school voted to kick them out too, which tells you this vote was a sham

(07-08-2020 02:09 PM)bullet Wrote:  Odd part was that Temple had a better football team than Rutgers at that point.

Irony of ironies that both Rutgers and Temple usually had a MAC school or two and either Army or Navy around on the non-conference. But the thing between PSU and Rutgers ended after 95 or 96 while Temple and Penn State remained a near consistent thing. And they each took another major conference body-bagger and other indy fare to fill out the non-conference. In other words, the two were near identical, except Rutgers was at least trying to commit to football. Or, were more committed than Temple at that point.

(07-08-2020 06:08 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Louisville was very close to being voted out of CUSA because it stood against ECU and Army joining the league. Louisville wanted a limited number of conference football games so we could continue to play Big East, ACC and SEC teams out of conference.

When the league started in 1995, there were 5 conference games. Adding ECU in 1996 that number grew to 6. League games grew again in 2000. There were only 11 games in a season until 2001 when it grew to the 12 we have today. By the time Louisville left CUSA in 2004, we were playing 8 conference games.

Joining CUSA cost us a football coach, Howard Schnellenberger told UofL if they joined CUSA he wouldn’t be able to schedule like he wanted. UofL joined CUSA and Howard moved on to Oklahoma.

In hindsight CUSA was good for Louisville. It gave us a solid schedule and we agreed to play anytime, anywhere against anybody. One season we played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. That got us on ESPN...a lot.

If Mike Slive, Commissioner of CUSA, hadn’t went to bat for UofL, things might have turned out differently.

Take into account UAB and S. Florida were planning on moving football into the league from the onset.

(07-07-2020 05:54 PM)JHG722 Wrote:  I'm aware of what is out there, but I'm not sure it's true. I don't think they wanted to embarrass us further, which is appreciated. It's much easier to say what they said.

Its true. Temple was voted out. Heck the president of the university was trying to kill the program all together and purposely failed to attempt to meet the BE conditions prior to the expulsion vote while taking the BE money and putting it into the Temple A-10 sports programs - especially the MBB program and the new BB center on Broad Street.

(07-06-2020 10:32 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(07-05-2020 12:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Charlotte and St Louis were told to look for another home when C-USA 2.0 was going to get new members for the 2005 season. Britton Banowski didn’t want football only and non football schools. Don’t know if Army was shown the door or they decided C-USA 2.0 wasn’t for them and decided independence was a better option.

There was never a vote on this. Charlotte, St. Louis, and Army were told that we could stay if we wanted but that there would be pressure applied to eventually become full members. In Charlotte and St. Louis's case that would mean committing to starting football programs (2003 was all about football, Banowsky could see the writing on the wall). The AD's at Charlotte and St. Louis asked Banowsky to see if he could find them new homes because neither was in a place to begin football at that time (supposedly). He made arrangements for the two schools to receive A-10 invites. The A-10 was already a stronger basketball conference than C-USA 2.0 was so Charlotte and St. Louis happily left.

I think Army was going to leave C-USA even before the breakup happened. They were doing very poorly in conference and their travel budget was reduced significantly by going Independent.

Asked to resign or you're fired is the cliff notes version.

(07-09-2020 09:11 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(07-06-2020 10:32 AM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  

(07-05-2020 12:10 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Charlotte and St Louis were told to look for another home when C-USA 2.0 was going to get new members for the 2005 season. Britton Banowski didn’t want football only and non football schools. Don’t know if Army was shown the door or they decided C-USA 2.0 wasn’t for them and decided independence was a better option.

There was never a vote on this. Charlotte, St. Louis, and Army were told that we could stay if we wanted but that there would be pressure applied to eventually become full members. In Charlotte and St. Louis's case that would mean committing to starting football programs (2003 was all about football, Banowsky could see the writing on the wall). The AD's at Charlotte and St. Louis asked Banowsky to see if he could find them new homes because neither was in a place to begin football at that time (supposedly). He made arrangements for the two schools to receive A-10 invites. The A-10 was already a stronger basketball conference than C-USA 2.0 was so Charlotte and St. Louis happily left.

I think Army was going to leave C-USA even before the breakup happened. They were doing very poorly in conference and their travel budget was reduced significantly by going Independent.

Asked to resign or you're fired is the cliff notes version.

Perhaps but there's still little precedent (and certainly wasn't back then) to eject established all-sports conference members without a hell of a good reason. They would have pressed hard, but I think in the end they just hope that Charlotte and Saint Louis decide for themselves to move on.

(07-05-2020 09:24 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Texas Pan-American was kicked out of the Sun Belt

https://www.espn.com/ncb/preview2000/292.html

Quote: Make no mistake, Hoffman inherits a mess. In 1996, Texas-Pan American lost its NCAA certification after charges that two assistant coaches helped recruits with correspondence course work. The certification was restored in 1998, but then the school was unceremoniously kicked out of the Sun Belt Conference, forcing it to endure Division I purgatory as an independent.

Technically UTPA "withdrew" after being informed there would be a vote and it would be unanimous.

The INSANE part of the story is that UTPA was death eligible and in filling out its paperwork their suggested penalty was death. They actually asked the NCAA to give hoops the death penalty and the NCAA took the position that having basketball would be more of a punishment.

Presidents around the Belt were entirely unimpressed when that information came out.

(07-08-2020 02:56 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(07-08-2020 06:08 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Louisville was very close to being voted out of CUSA because it stood against ECU and Army joining the league. Louisville wanted a limited number of conference football games so we could continue to play Big East, ACC and SEC teams out of conference.

When the league started in 1995, there were 5 conference games. Adding ECU in 1996 that number grew to 6. League games grew again in 2000. There were only 11 games in a season until 2001 when it grew to the 12 we have today. By the time Louisville left CUSA in 2004, we were playing 8 conference games.

Joining CUSA cost us a football coach, Howard Schnellenberger told UofL if they joined CUSA he wouldn’t be able to schedule like he wanted. UofL joined CUSA and Howard moved on to Oklahoma.

In hindsight CUSA was good for Louisville. It gave us a solid schedule and we agreed to play anytime, anywhere against anybody. One season we played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. That got us on ESPN...a lot.

If Mike Slive, Commissioner of CUSA, hadn’t went to bat for UofL, things might have turned out differently.

Howard Schnellenberger was living in a bit of delusion, believing the era of the major independents was still going strong. All of the schools Howard wanted to play were all committed to conference schedules and didn’t have the room to play Louisville late in the season.

It would have been interesting to see where things went had he stuck it out and produced 2005-2012 Boise St like results through the 90s.

I was in AState's AD office when the Sun Belt commissioner called. When he hung up and he said "Holy ****, you been keeping up with Louisville getting kicked out of CUSA? Looks like we have a deal to add them."

Fun only lasted a few hours