(01-03-2021 09:42 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 08:15 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 08:08 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 01:22 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 12:56 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Tarletons stadium was rough. The first round of expansion has made things more pleasing and the large video board definitely helps. The next round of expansion has already been identified.

Its still on par or better than some of the facilities in the Southland.


I've been to UIWs stadium and Gym a few times. UIWs stadium isn't any better than it was as D2. Their basketball gym feels like a rec gym

Yea I'd agree with all of that. But to be fair other than ACU, Lamar, and maybe McNeese i dont think any of the SLC stadiums are good.

When Sam Houston State and SFAU studied to go FBS around 2010/11? They were looking to joining the WAC FBS conference at the time and to expand and upgrade their facilities. Lamar was more ready to join the WAC than UTSA since they restarted football first before UTSA did. If the WAC sent an invite to Lamar, SHSU and SFAU back at the same time period as UTSA, UTA and Texas State? Would those three stayed while the WAC snatch North Texas as well? Idaho would still be FBS.

WAC football:
New Mexico State
Idaho
UTSA
Texas State
North Texas
Lamar
Sam Houston State
SFAU

Non Football:
UTRGV
Grand Canyon
Utah Valley

Future:
West Texas A&M
Dixie State
ACU
Tarleton State

That would leave UCS-Bakersfield, Seattle, NJTU and Chicago State in the Great West which they could try and get D2 schools move up then. You get 12/15 or 13/15 when UTRGV adds football. It seems that UTRGV will be announcing soon from the rumors coming out.

UNT thinks way too highly of themselves to have joined that conference. I dont blame them either. I guess in this scenario SJSU, USU, and LA Tech left the WAC a year earlier?

Agreed. Karl Benson (former WAC and SBC commish) reached out to UNT to join the WAc after the Boise, Hawaii and Fresno departures. They wanted nothing to do with Texas State and UTSA. Even now they still do not want anything to do with the Bobcats.

I think SFA, Sam, and Lamar watched TXST, UtSa, and UT Arlington move on and saw the impact it had on their schools. Each had new facilities and in the conferences these schools want to be in.

While Sam has been to the FCS Championship game twice and SFA has made name for itself in basketball, they are still not being mentioned for Sun Belt or CUSA expansion.

The Southland has tapped out potential for them. It will always be a league centered along the Sabine River and it is not getting any better. Moving on changes the direction of the institution, gives them a shiny toy to dangle at donors for capital projects and eventually makes them more palatable for these other conferences

I still fail to see how this makes SHSU or SFA more palatable to say the Sun Belt or how they reach any untapped potential in this WAC.

I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

(01-03-2021 10:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

The way I see it, the Southland 4, plus Tarleton, UTRGV, and whomever replaces Chicago St are viewing their division as a mini conference that will share autobids with the western schools

(01-02-2021 06:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  One of the reasons given for Lamar, Sam Houston State, Stephen F Austin and Abilene Christian jumping to the WAC is that the other Southland schools are not spending money on athletics.

But, looking at Equity in Athletics, UIW is spending $20M, $10M on scholarships and $10M in real money.
Lamar is spending $18M, $6M in scholarships and $12M in real money.

What's so bad about Incarnate Word that schools are jumping from one bottom-feeding one-bid FCS conference to another to get away from them?

OP makes a good point why this need to “run away from UIW” doesn’t make much sense.

(01-03-2021 10:20 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 06:21 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  One of the reasons given for Lamar, Sam Houston State, Stephen F Austin and Abilene Christian jumping to the WAC is that the other Southland schools are not spending money on athletics.

But, looking at Equity in Athletics, UIW is spending $20M, $10M on scholarships and $10M in real money.
Lamar is spending $18M, $6M in scholarships and $12M in real money.

What's so bad about Incarnate Word that schools are jumping from one bottom-feeding one-bid FCS conference to another to get away from them?

OP makes a good point why this need to “run away from UIW” doesn’t make much sense.

Their basketball arena only holds 2000.

(01-03-2021 09:42 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Agreed. Karl Benson (former WAC and SBC commish) reached out to UNT to join the WAc after the Boise, Hawaii and Fresno departures. They wanted nothing to do with Texas State and UTSA. Even now they still do not want anything to do with the Bobcats.

I think SFA, Sam, and Lamar watched TXST, UtSa, and UT Arlington move on and saw the impact it had on their schools. Each had new facilities and in the conferences these schools want to be in.

While Sam has been to the FCS Championship game twice and SFA has made name for itself in basketball, they are still not being mentioned for Sun Belt or CUSA expansion.

The Southland has tapped out potential for them. It will always be a league centered along the Sabine River and it is not getting any better. Moving on changes the direction of the institution, gives them a shiny toy to dangle at donors for capital projects and eventually makes them more palatable for these other conferences

This.

It's a bigger stage. When Tarleton joined the WAC this year and soon hired BCG, I think that also sent a little message to schools like SHSU and SFA who regularly get poached for coaches like Fritz, Pierce, and Underwood.
The Southland just doesn't offer many prospects for national acclaim. At least the Texas 4 now have close to a blank canvas, and can also use the WACs past to hype its future.

(01-03-2021 11:10 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 09:42 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Agreed. Karl Benson (former WAC and SBC commish) reached out to UNT to join the WAc after the Boise, Hawaii and Fresno departures. They wanted nothing to do with Texas State and UTSA. Even now they still do not want anything to do with the Bobcats.

I think SFA, Sam, and Lamar watched TXST, UtSa, and UT Arlington move on and saw the impact it had on their schools. Each had new facilities and in the conferences these schools want to be in.

While Sam has been to the FCS Championship game twice and SFA has made name for itself in basketball, they are still not being mentioned for Sun Belt or CUSA expansion.

The Southland has tapped out potential for them. It will always be a league centered along the Sabine River and it is not getting any better. Moving on changes the direction of the institution, gives them a shiny toy to dangle at donors for capital projects and eventually makes them more palatable for these other conferences

This.

It's a bigger stage. When Tarleton joined the WAC this year and soon hired BCG, I think that also sent a little message to schools like SHSU and SFA who regularly get poached for coaches like Fritz, Pierce, and Underwood.
The Southland just doesn't offer many prospects for national acclaim. At least the Texas 4 now have close to a blank canvas, and can also use the WACs past to hype its future.

The WAC is hardly a bigger stage than the SLC.

(01-03-2021 08:08 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 01:22 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 12:56 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 07:29 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Tarleton State and West Texas A&M yes with Kingsville and Commerce spent money recently on their facilities. Even Texas Southern, Prairie View, Central Oklahoma and Colorado Mesa spent money on their facilities.I think Angelo State's facilities and Midwestern State is better than Houston Baptist and New Orleans, even UTPB is spending money on their facilities to offer more sports and scholarships.

Id agree with WTAMU, but Tarleton no. Their stadium has improved but I still dont think its that great.

Tarletons stadium was rough. The first round of expansion has made things more pleasing and the large video board definitely helps. The next round of expansion has already been identified.

Its still on par or better than some of the facilities in the Southland.


I've been to UIWs stadium and Gym a few times. UIWs stadium isn't any better than it was as D2. Their basketball gym feels like a rec gym

Yea I'd agree with all of that. But to be fair other than ACU, Lamar, and maybe McNeese i dont think any of the SLC stadiums are good.

When Sam Houston State and SFAU studied to go FBS around 2010/11? They were looking to joining the WAC FBS conference at the time and to expand and upgrade their facilities. Lamar was more ready to join the WAC than UTSA since they restarted football first before UTSA did. If the WAC sent an invite to Lamar, SHSU and SFAU back at the same time period as UTSA, UTA and Texas State? Would those three stayed while the WAC snatch North Texas as well? Idaho would still be FBS.

WAC football:
New Mexico State
Idaho
UTSA
Texas State
North Texas
Lamar
Sam Houston State
SFAU

Non Football:
UTRGV
Grand Canyon
Utah Valley

Future:
West Texas A&M
Dixie State
ACU
Tarleton State

That would leave UCS-Bakersfield, Seattle, NJTU and Chicago State in the Great West which they could try and get D2 schools move up then. You get 12/15 or 13/15 when UTRGV adds football. It seems that UTRGV will be announcing soon from the rumors coming out.

Wow, what an awful collection of schools/teams that would have been.

(01-02-2021 06:32 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  I was just in San Antonio .....Incarnate Word is a Great Institution in an Excellent location ..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Define great. I think it's a relative term.

(01-04-2021 12:10 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 11:10 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 09:42 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Agreed. Karl Benson (former WAC and SBC commish) reached out to UNT to join the WAc after the Boise, Hawaii and Fresno departures. They wanted nothing to do with Texas State and UTSA. Even now they still do not want anything to do with the Bobcats.

I think SFA, Sam, and Lamar watched TXST, UtSa, and UT Arlington move on and saw the impact it had on their schools. Each had new facilities and in the conferences these schools want to be in.

While Sam has been to the FCS Championship game twice and SFA has made name for itself in basketball, they are still not being mentioned for Sun Belt or CUSA expansion.

The Southland has tapped out potential for them. It will always be a league centered along the Sabine River and it is not getting any better. Moving on changes the direction of the institution, gives them a shiny toy to dangle at donors for capital projects and eventually makes them more palatable for these other conferences

This.

It's a bigger stage. When Tarleton joined the WAC this year and soon hired BCG, I think that also sent a little message to schools like SHSU and SFA who regularly get poached for coaches like Fritz, Pierce, and Underwood.
The Southland just doesn't offer many prospects for national acclaim. At least the Texas 4 now have close to a blank canvas, and can also use the WACs past to hype its future.

The WAC is hardly a bigger stage than the SLC.

It may not seem like it, but don't underestimate how bush league the Southland is.

This is a league who fans have expressed a near terror of a team having to fly to play a game.

(01-03-2021 10:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

Looked at from a Vulcan perspective, this is a lateral move. Slightly higher travel costs, possibly slightly higher revenues if all the stars line up correctly.

But reading what the Texas schools' fans are saying, it's a short term enthusiasm boost. They've been in the Southland forever, nothing is happening in the Southland. So they're Doing Something to shake things up. Cal Baptist may be just as big a toilet academically and athletically as Houston Baptist, but people in Texas (the relevant market of alumni, prospective students, local supporters) don't know that (yet).

People in East Texas have been to Louisiana. The parts that aren't Bourbon Street or Tiger Stadium hold little appeal to them, just on a "been there, done that" basis. The southwest corner of Utah is apparently new, exotic and exciting. For a while. And you fly through Las Vegas to get there, so

(01-04-2021 08:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 10:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

Looked at from a Vulcan perspective, this is a lateral move. Slightly higher travel costs, possibly slightly higher revenues if all the stars line up correctly.

But reading what the Texas schools' fans are saying, it's a short term enthusiasm boost. They've been in the Southland forever, nothing is happening in the Southland. So they're Doing Something to shake things up. Cal Baptist may be just as big a toilet academically and athletically as Houston Baptist, but people in Texas (the relevant market of alumni, prospective students, local supporters) don't know that (yet).

People in East Texas have been to Louisiana. The parts that aren't Bourbon Street or Tiger Stadium hold little appeal to them, just on a "been there, done that" basis. The southwest corner of Utah is apparently new, exotic and exciting. For a while. And you fly through Las Vegas to get there, so

The thing that Cal baptist has over Houston baptist is at least potentially giving the Texas schools potential new recruiting grounds. With the game in California and conference tournament in Vegas (for now) it might help recruit in California.

(01-04-2021 12:27 PM)46566 Wrote:  The thing that Cal baptist has over Houston baptist is at least potentially giving the Texas schools potential new recruiting grounds. With the gay in California and conference tournament in Vegas (for now) it might help recruit in California.

Wha?

(01-04-2021 12:27 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(01-04-2021 08:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 10:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

Looked at from a Vulcan perspective, this is a lateral move. Slightly higher travel costs, possibly slightly higher revenues if all the stars line up correctly.

But reading what the Texas schools' fans are saying, it's a short term enthusiasm boost. They've been in the Southland forever, nothing is happening in the Southland. So they're Doing Something to shake things up. Cal Baptist may be just as big a toilet academically and athletically as Houston Baptist, but people in Texas (the relevant market of alumni, prospective students, local supporters) don't know that (yet).

People in East Texas have been to Louisiana. The parts that aren't Bourbon Street or Tiger Stadium hold little appeal to them, just on a "been there, done that" basis. The southwest corner of Utah is apparently new, exotic and exciting. For a while. And you fly through Las Vegas to get there, so

The thing that Cal baptist has over Houston baptist is at least potentially giving the Texas schools potential new recruiting grounds. With the gay in California and conference tournament in Vegas (for now) it might help recruit in California.

You say tomato, I say tomahto. You say new recruiting grounds, I say increased travel budgets. The SLC schools are tired of their busted 25 year old Ford pickup truck, and are trading in for a 25 year old Dodge pickup.

(01-03-2021 12:56 AM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 07:29 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 07:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 07:09 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-02-2021 06:56 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  UIW's facilities are light years aways from being acceptable. The big 4 wanted Abilene Christian, Angelo State, Commerce, Kingsville, West Texas A&M, Tarleton State and Midwestern State as replacements instead of Houston Baptist, New Orleans and UIW in 2012.

Besides ACUs football stadium are any of those schools facilities any better?

Tarleton State and West Texas A&M yes with Kingsville and Commerce spent money recently on their facilities. Even Texas Southern, Prairie View, Central Oklahoma and Colorado Mesa spent money on their facilities.I think Angelo State's facilities and Midwestern State is better than Houston Baptist and New Orleans, even UTPB is spending money on their facilities to offer more sports and scholarships.

Id agree with WTAMU, but Tarleton no. Their stadium has improved but I still dont think its that great.

Tarletons stadium was rough. The first round of expansion has made things more pleasing and the large video board definitely helps. The next round of expansion has already been identified.

Its still on par or better than some of the facilities in the Southland.


I've been to UIWs stadium and Gym a few times. UIWs stadium isn't any better than it was as D2. Their basketball gym feels like a rec gym

Still better than HBU's HS gym and stadium.

(01-04-2021 08:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 10:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

Looked at from a Vulcan perspective, this is a lateral move. Slightly higher travel costs, possibly slightly higher revenues if all the stars line up correctly.

But reading what the Texas schools' fans are saying, it's a short term enthusiasm boost. They've been in the Southland forever, nothing is happening in the Southland. So they're Doing Something to shake things up. Cal Baptist may be just as big a toilet academically and athletically as Houston Baptist, but people in Texas (the relevant market of alumni, prospective students, local supporters) don't know that (yet).

People in East Texas have been to Louisiana. The parts that aren't Bourbon Street or Tiger Stadium hold little appeal to them, just on a "been there, done that" basis. The southwest corner of Utah is apparently new, exotic and exciting. For a while. And you fly through Las Vegas to get there, so

California Baptist got the money to upgrade their facilities that Houston Baptist is having troubles doing. Seattle is using Climate Pledge Arena formally called Key Arena which they share with others in downtown Seattle. It seats like 18,000 capacity which would be the largest in the WAC. I think both Tarleton State and UTRGV will be upgrading their basketball arena to seat more in the future.

(01-04-2021 03:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-04-2021 08:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 10:06 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’m still not sure how this potential association with the WAC improves things for the so called Texas 4. Can’t they be FBS aspirational programs within their current league? If they can’t force the rest of the Southland to raise their game, then why not establish themselves as the upper crust that’s head and shoulders above the other 9? Why do they need to be in a league with NMSU and other west coast programs? I get how NMSU and GCU could be attractive to the Texas 4 and how UTRGV and Tarleton St could be convenient for travel but it also means Cal Bapt, Seattle, and 2-3 Utah schools in the conference too.

Looked at from a Vulcan perspective, this is a lateral move. Slightly higher travel costs, possibly slightly higher revenues if all the stars line up correctly.

But reading what the Texas schools' fans are saying, it's a short term enthusiasm boost. They've been in the Southland forever, nothing is happening in the Southland. So they're Doing Something to shake things up. Cal Baptist may be just as big a toilet academically and athletically as Houston Baptist, but people in Texas (the relevant market of alumni, prospective students, local supporters) don't know that (yet).

People in East Texas have been to Louisiana. The parts that aren't Bourbon Street or Tiger Stadium hold little appeal to them, just on a "been there, done that" basis. The southwest corner of Utah is apparently new, exotic and exciting. For a while. And you fly through Las Vegas to get there, so

California Baptist got the money to upgrade their facilities that Houston Baptist is having troubles doing. Seattle is using Climate Pledge Arena formally called Key Arena which they share with others in downtown Seattle. It seats like 18,000 capacity which would be the largest in the WAC. I think both Tarleton State and UTRGV will be upgrading their basketball arena to seat more in the future.

RGV has a brand new off campus arena they can use if needed.

(01-04-2021 12:10 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 11:10 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 09:42 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Agreed. Karl Benson (former WAC and SBC commish) reached out to UNT to join the WAc after the Boise, Hawaii and Fresno departures. They wanted nothing to do with Texas State and UTSA. Even now they still do not want anything to do with the Bobcats.

I think SFA, Sam, and Lamar watched TXST, UtSa, and UT Arlington move on and saw the impact it had on their schools. Each had new facilities and in the conferences these schools want to be in.

While Sam has been to the FCS Championship game twice and SFA has made name for itself in basketball, they are still not being mentioned for Sun Belt or CUSA expansion.

The Southland has tapped out potential for them. It will always be a league centered along the Sabine River and it is not getting any better. Moving on changes the direction of the institution, gives them a shiny toy to dangle at donors for capital projects and eventually makes them more palatable for these other conferences

This.

It's a bigger stage. When Tarleton joined the WAC this year and soon hired BCG, I think that also sent a little message to schools like SHSU and SFA who regularly get poached for coaches like Fritz, Pierce, and Underwood.
The Southland just doesn't offer many prospects for national acclaim. At least the Texas 4 now have close to a blank canvas, and can also use the WACs past to hype its future.

The WAC is hardly a bigger stage than the SLC.

The WAC name is a lot bigger than the Southland.

(01-02-2021 06:32 PM)michael.stevens.3110 Wrote:  I was just in San Antonio .....Incarnate Word is a Great Institution in an Excellent location ..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I live in San Antonio, and you hear basically zero about IUW athletics in the local media. All media covering college sports is either geared towards UTSA or Texas/Texas A&M.

(01-04-2021 09:00 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  

(01-04-2021 12:10 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 11:10 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  

(01-03-2021 09:42 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Agreed. Karl Benson (former WAC and SBC commish) reached out to UNT to join the WAc after the Boise, Hawaii and Fresno departures. They wanted nothing to do with Texas State and UTSA. Even now they still do not want anything to do with the Bobcats.

I think SFA, Sam, and Lamar watched TXST, UtSa, and UT Arlington move on and saw the impact it had on their schools. Each had new facilities and in the conferences these schools want to be in.

While Sam has been to the FCS Championship game twice and SFA has made name for itself in basketball, they are still not being mentioned for Sun Belt or CUSA expansion.

The Southland has tapped out potential for them. It will always be a league centered along the Sabine River and it is not getting any better. Moving on changes the direction of the institution, gives them a shiny toy to dangle at donors for capital projects and eventually makes them more palatable for these other conferences

This.

It's a bigger stage. When Tarleton joined the WAC this year and soon hired BCG, I think that also sent a little message to schools like SHSU and SFA who regularly get poached for coaches like Fritz, Pierce, and Underwood.
The Southland just doesn't offer many prospects for national acclaim. At least the Texas 4 now have close to a blank canvas, and can also use the WACs past to hype its future.

The WAC is hardly a bigger stage than the SLC.

The WAC name is a lot bigger than the Southland.

Chicago State is in the WAC. 4 recent D2 move ups joined this conference and likely didn’t have any other landing spots. UTRGV was kicked out of the Sun Belt and the SLC took several D2 move ups over them during every expansion. Which conferences did the WAC beat out for Seattle and Utah Valley? NMSU tried to get into every other reasonable western conference over the last 7 years. That’s some name.