IF we lose members (probable)-- What action should we take?

One thought- If you only take one will the SBC take the other?

(For all sport membership)

I know many have had their objections over the Flames- but they have been very successful and we could be in a tough spot-- so they should be considered IMO.

It will also make Marshall, ODU, and Charlotte glad to have more East school(s).

There is a 75% chance Marshall and USM are gone.

I doubt we will be in CUSA

Knowing this conference, we would add New Mexico State and Sam Houston State.

As much as I don’t care for Liberty, they have a lot of money and have been committed to sports and it has shown.

Have you guys thought about Jacksonville State? Usually solid FBS football, geographically central (albeit a little hard to get to).

Gets you back into Alabama (assuming UAB is gone)

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I like them both. I especially want to be in a conference with Liberty. I think they're controversial nature would be a boon for many rivalries, and they are competitive. It's such an easy win-win

Honestly, I don't want to go to the Sun Belt unless they drop a couple of their teams and add Liberty and JMU.

There is no reason Marshall should be in a conference with ULM.

A safe assumption is when the SB snubbed Liberty, and with their indy success, they would leap at a C-USA invite. With all LU's wrinkles, warts, Buffon past actions, the school is committed to FB like few others. They have spent the money in facilities to attract recruits, hired a high profile coach, and are smartly using sports to expand their mission statement. Love them or hate them, they are succeeding.

A valid argument can be made for their non inclusion with their image, restrictive rules, past ideological statements and being private vs. public. The argument for is:
- their quest to succeed
- their financial commitment
- administration support
- increasing popularity/notoriety

ESPN is watching to see if they continue to excel, to be the "us against the world team", that makes great theatre for the traditional schools. Years ago, if Miami vs. Notre Dame was the "Convicts vs. the Catholics", LU will play that moniker even better with their Christian "mission". And the better they become, the better it will be for all other member schools they play against as game interest will be greater. LU poor or mediocre lessens their appeal.

Being beaten by LU will be the worst loss for those teams that detest LU, which are many. Rather than the white hat cowboy riding into the sunset, LU will be more the black hat bad guy everyone will hate to lose to.

(09-18-2021 08:14 AM)rileylives Wrote:  Honestly, I don't want to go to the Sun Belt unless they drop a couple of their teams and add Liberty and JMU.

There is no reason Marshall should be in a conference with ULM.

I really don't believe Marshall would pay exit fees to go the the SB but I agree and include Troy in that thought process.

(09-18-2021 08:15 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  A safe assumption is when the SB snubbed Liberty, and with their indy success, they would leap at a C-USA invite. With all LU's wrinkles, warts, Buffon past actions, the school is committed to FB like few others. They have spent the money in facilities to attract recruits, hired a high profile coach, and are smartly using sports to expand their mission statement. Love them or hate them, they are succeeding.

A valid argument can be made for their non inclusion with their image, restrictive rules, past ideological statements and being private vs. public. The argument for is:
- their quest to succeed
- their financial commitment
- administration support
- increasing popularity/notoriety

ESPN is watching to see if they continue to excel, to be the "us against the world team", that makes great theatre for the traditional schools. Years ago, if Miami vs. Notre Dame was the "Convicts vs. the Catholics", LU will play that moniker even better with their Christian "mission". And the better they become, the better it will be for all other member schools they play against as game interest will be greater. LU poor or mediocre lessens their appeal.

Being beaten by LU will be the worst loss for those teams that detest LU, which are many. Rather than the white hat cowboy riding into the sunset, LU will be more the black hat bad guy everyone will hate to lose to.

the administration change makes Liberty much less toxic. the past administration was the one willing to lose millions on football. the current administration may not be willing to.

(09-18-2021 08:35 AM)Dusky Wrote:  

(09-18-2021 08:14 AM)rileylives Wrote:  Honestly, I don't want to go to the Sun Belt unless they drop a couple of their teams and add Liberty and JMU.

There is no reason Marshall should be in a conference with ULM.

I really don't believe Marshall would pay exit fees to go the the SB but I agree and include Troy in that thought process.

I’ll be surprised if we do as well. The only way it happens is if ESPN pays a lot of money to get us.

We aren’t going to pay $5-6 million exit fee to join the SBC with their current numbers and then forced to play on Tues/Weds nights.

They first said it was only one home game per year playing a non Saturday game. Go look at Louisiana schedule. They have 6 home games with only 3 on Saturday. I’m sure one is FCS but I don’t remember. So two FBS home games on Saturdays? Eff that!

First, no one is going from CUSA to the SB. It violates the Golden Rule of realignment where schools always move up to the higher grossing conference.

Let just hope the AAC takes four from the MW, and then the MW takes CUSA’s Texas four.

Then we add App, Coastal, JMU and yes Liberty.


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(09-18-2021 08:14 AM)rileylives Wrote:  Honestly, I don't want to go to the Sun Belt unless they drop a couple of their teams and add Liberty and JMU.

There is no reason Marshall should be in a conference with ULM.

Why are people so fascinated with JMU as a conference mate? They are not even FBS, no? Because it fits in your little Eastern bundle of teams?

(09-18-2021 09:11 AM)ODU1986 Wrote:  First, no one is going from CUSA to the SB. It violates the Golden Rule of realignment where schools always move up to the higher grossing conference.

Let just hope the AAC takes four from the MW, and then the MW takes CUSA’s Texas four.

Then we add App, Coastal, JMU and yes Liberty.


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And no upper level Sun Belt team is coming to CUSA either. That level of hierarchy CUSA once had is completely diminished now. No good tv deal and no ranked teams in CUSA makes it absolutely silly for teams like App St, Louisiana or Coastal to even consider coming to CUSA under Judy's leadership.

(09-18-2021 09:29 AM)HiddenDragon Wrote:  

(09-18-2021 09:11 AM)ODU1986 Wrote:  First, no one is going from CUSA to the SB. It violates the Golden Rule of realignment where schools always move up to the higher grossing conference.

Let just hope the AAC takes four from the MW, and then the MW takes CUSA’s Texas four.

Then we add App, Coastal, JMU and yes Liberty.


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And no upper level Sun Belt team is coming to CUSA either. That level of hierarchy CUSA once had is completely diminished now. No good tv deal and no ranked teams in CUSA makes it absolutely silly for teams like App St, Louisiana or Coastal to even consider coming to CUSA under Judy's leadership.

You are absolutely correct on that one. It's going to be difficult for either of our conferences to just pull from each other. That's why I think a reimagining makes the most sense.

There's just not a lot of incentive for one or two teams to get pulled in either direction.

In my opinion, Liberty should join C-USA, I believe they would come right in and become the top dog very quickly. But there is the issue where C-USA did turn them down before and that was when Liberty was willing to hand over $25million. Just seems like Liberty would say "No Thank You"

Different time and age, you're going to see all the indy's clamor to get in a conference with the new rules going forward.

I actually think partnering with Liberty is a smart move, they want in a conference so bad, I honestly believe that they would be willing to pay exit fees to pair up with the right partnership of schools.

(09-18-2021 12:06 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  IF we lose members (probable)-- What action should we take?

One thought- If you only take one will the SBC take the other?

(For all sport membership)

I know many have had their objections over the Flames- but they have been very successful and we could be in a tough spot-- so they should be considered IMO.

It will also make Marshall, ODU, and Charlotte glad to have more East school(s).

It really depends on what movements occur. Based on what I have seen Conference USA will very likely lose from the East Division UAB (AAC) and Marshall (Sun Belt) and from the West Division North Texas (Mountain West), Southern Miss (Sun Belt), and either UTEP or UTSA (Mountain West).

If the West loses 3, and East loses 2, the conference could potentially pull Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky to the West Division as long as UTEP goes MWC and not Texas-San Antonio. The travel distances for MTSU and Western Kentucky in the West Division compared to the East are nearly identical in this scenario.

If this were to happen to give the West Division 5 and East Division 4, then Liberty and only Liberty becomes a very viable expansion candidate as a proven FBS program within the East Division footprint.

The alternative?

Mountain West takes North Texas and Texas-San Antonio leaving UTEP on an island. Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky would fight the conference office if a West Division move was attempted. Conference USA would then have to consider New Mexico State (football only) as long as Louisiana Tech doesn't object, and they may not as long as trips to El Paso and Los Cruces can be alternated for football where travel to the deep Southwest happens only once per year, and then CUSA can pull Texas-Arlington from the Sun Belt (who is looking to leave that conference) to offset NMSU football and raise the profile of CUSA basketball.

Needing one more team for the West Division in all sports to successfully keep the conference split in divisions per NCAA rules, the conference could look at Sam Houston State (most recent FCS football champion) and current member of the WAC. A 2014 feasibility study revealed that SHSU was not ready for FBS football, but that could've changed after over 7 years and several facility upgrades. Being in a Texas-centric division of CUSA with occasional trips to the East Division as opposed to staying in the WAC and traveling to Utah and California regularly in all sports could be helpful.

It's unlikely Jacksonville State or Missouri State would join if they were pushed west. Jacksonville State left the OVC for the Atlantic Sun largely due to geography. The conference could keep at 10-1-1 and still also host championship games in other sports. One need only to see how the MEAC or Patriot League split their basketball divisions to know you don't have to have 6 in each division.



Scenario 1 (10 full members)
East: Old Dominion, Charlotte, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Liberty
West: Louisiana Tech, Rice, UTSA, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky



Scenario 2 (10 full members, 1 football only, 1 non-football)
East: Old Dominion, Charlotte, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky
West: Louisiana Tech, Rice, UTEP, Sam Houston State, New Mexico State (football-only), Texas-Arlington (non-football)

Scenario 2 imbalances the East and West Division numbers in football, but as long as the divisions are reasonably split the NCAA typically allows a conference to host a football championship game. CUSA might have to apply for a waiver in this circumstance.

(09-18-2021 09:43 AM)rileylives Wrote:  Different time and age, you're going to see all the indy's clamor to get in a conference with the new rules going forward.

I actually think partnering with Liberty is a smart move, they want in a conference so bad, I honestly believe that they would be willing to pay exit fees to pair up with the right partnership of schools.

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I agree they do want to join a conference but is C-USA the right 1. Also does C-USA current teams want the Liberty Machine. The A-SUN said yes and Liberty in just 3 years has become the Alpha Dog. Your thoughts?