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Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
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Saint3333 Online
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Post: #41
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 09:28 PM)parialex Wrote:  Equitable relief is not (just) a dollar amount. It is a performed obligation

Equitable Relief: The remedy resulting from a claim of estoppel. Equitable relief is distinguished from remedies for legal actions in that, instead of seeking merely monetary damages, the plaintiff is seeking that the court compels the defendant to perform a certain act or refrain from a certain act. Common types of equitable relief are injunctions, specific performance, or vacatur. Link

In other words, equitable relief here is fulfilling the terms of the contract. An injunction, as expressly referred to in the bylaws.

To get out of it, the three schools would have to demonstrate an unreasonable hardship. Which, considering that they would be playing in the same conference that they've played in for the last ten years, is not easy to do. Especially given that there are six other teams doing what is expected of those three.

The offended party must also be found to be entirely free from blame in the dispute. Often called the "clean hands" principle, it can be applied to deny equitable relief if the offended party has not acted entirely in good faith, or has delayed unnecessarily in seeking a remedy.

Inept leadership will not be hard to prove. Nor will delay in seeking a remedy. C-DOA.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2022 10:22 PM by Saint3333.)
02-11-2022 10:18 PM
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Post: #42
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.

But they didn’t. They refused to respond and then tried to pretend it wasn’t happening and we didn’t tell them by issuing schedules to all their members. Yes, we’re leaving early in breach of the by laws. If that move causes them monetary damages that they can show then they may be entitled to payment. If they intend to take us to arbitration with no attempt to reach a settlement prior and they really didn’t tell the other members then that’s got to be the stupidest thing I’ve heard in a while. Derelict of duty stupid.
02-11-2022 10:18 PM
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Soaring Eagle Online
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Post: #43
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)


I found this clip talking about injunctions pretty funny

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4lURHNLrwtc
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2022 10:51 PM by Soaring Eagle.)
02-11-2022 10:23 PM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:09 PM)parialex Wrote:  I'd be drafting the lawsuit now (they likely are). Requesting the injunction would be a part of that.

the collateral damage from a injunction will not be worth that fight just to keep these teams for 1 more year.
02-11-2022 10:24 PM
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DogsWin1 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.
But they didn’t. They refused to respond

That is yet another lie. CUSA did respond.
"We have chosen not to engage publicly, but have communicated with our member institutions and expect them to meet those obligations."

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...30/photo/1
02-11-2022 10:34 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 09:28 PM)parialex Wrote:  Equitable relief is not (just) a dollar amount. It is a performed obligation

Equitable Relief: The remedy resulting from a claim of estoppel. Equitable relief is distinguished from remedies for legal actions in that, instead of seeking merely monetary damages, the plaintiff is seeking that the court compels the defendant to perform a certain act or refrain from a certain act. Common types of equitable relief are injunctions, specific performance, or vacatur. Link

In other words, equitable relief here is fulfilling the terms of the contract. An injunction, as expressly referred to in the bylaws.

To get out of it, the three schools would have to demonstrate an unreasonable hardship. Which, considering that they would be playing in the same conference that they've played in for the last ten years, is not easy to do. Especially given that there are six other teams doing what is expected of those three.

A judge is going to make us stay in CUSA? For what? The mild inconvenience of having to draft a different conference schedule?
02-11-2022 10:47 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:34 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.
But they didn’t. They refused to respond

That is yet another lie. CUSA did respond.
"We have chosen not to engage publicly, but have communicated with our member institutions and expect them to meet those obligations."

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...30/photo/1

I mean, C-USA could have just lied in their statement
02-11-2022 10:49 PM
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Ewglenn Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:34 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.
But they didn’t. They refused to respond

That is yet another lie. CUSA did respond.
"We have chosen not to engage publicly, but have communicated with our member institutions and expect them to meet those obligations."

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...30/photo/1

People don’t like facts
02-11-2022 10:50 PM
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TTT Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:34 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.
But they didn’t. They refused to respond

That is yet another lie. CUSA did respond.
"We have chosen not to engage publicly, but have communicated with our member institutions and expect them to meet those obligations."

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...30/photo/1

This statement seems intentionally vague. Meanwhile, USM is saying this:

"The University has from the outset expressed its
desire to work with Conference USA to achieve an
amicable separation, including offering to
cooperate to ensure that all remaining conference
members had complete competitive schedules
for those sports in which the University competes.
Conference USA has so far refused to discuss any
such arrangement with the University.
The Conference's unwillingness to discuss the
concept of separation this year creates confusion
and doubt for all concerned.
The remaining
members of Conference USA deserve certainty
about their schedules as they plan for competition
next year. For their sake, the University makes
public its intent."
https://southernmiss.com/news/2022/2/11/...nment.aspx

How can both statements be true?
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2022 10:54 PM by TTT.)
02-11-2022 10:53 PM
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parialex Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:12 PM)Soaring Eagle Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:09 PM)parialex Wrote:  I'd be drafting the lawsuit now (they likely are). Requesting the injunction would be a part of that.

This is going to be interesting.

Congratulations on the B12 invite.

Thanks! And for what it's worth, I hope you and Marshall both kick some ass in the Sun Belt.
02-11-2022 10:53 PM
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DogsWin1 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:49 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:34 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.
But they didn’t. They refused to respond

That is yet another lie. CUSA did respond.
"We have chosen not to engage publicly, but have communicated with our member institutions and expect them to meet those obligations."

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...30/photo/1

I mean, C-USA could have just lied in their statement

Lol. Like C-USA has any reason to lie about communicating with it's members. Some of you guys are just plain silly.
02-11-2022 10:54 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 08:20 PM)GEAUX UL Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 07:27 PM)Soaring Eagle Wrote:  This from latechs bb


From the conference bylaws in the latest C-USA Handbook that I have (2015-2016):

3.06 Withdrawal From Conference.
No member of the Conference may withdraw from the Conference except pursuant to and as allowed by this Section 3.06. No member may withdraw from the Conference without providing the Conference prior written notice. Any and all withdrawals from the Conference shall be effective on July 1 of the year specified in the notice of withdrawal; provided, however, that the withdrawing member must afford the Conference notice at least fourteen months prior to the effective date of the withdrawal (i.e. no later than May 1 of the prior year). However, if a Member makes statements or takes actions that evidence intent of such Member to withdraw from the Conference either currently or in the future, such actions will be determined as notice of withdrawal by a three-fourths (3/4) vote of the remaining Members of the Board of Directors. In the event that a member attempts to leave the Conference without fully complying with the notice of withdrawal requirements set forth above, the Conference shall be entitled to equitable relief without having to prove actual injury, irreparable or otherwise, including, but not limited to, an injunction requiring the member to comply fully with the notice of withdrawal requirements set forth above, to fulfill all of its obligations as a Conference member, and to remain in the Conference until the earliest permissible date upon which the member could have, under the circumstances, withdrawn with full and proper prior notice as required above. The members agree that any attempted withdrawal of a member without full compliance with the prior notice requirements set forth above would cause a disruption in the scheduling of competitions among the members for which there is no adequate remedy at law which would cause harm that would not in any respect be compensated by payment of a withdrawal fee, and for which, therefore, equitable relief is appropriate.

The withdrawing member shall be responsible for the amount of any and all assessments or debts that the member owes to the Conference as of the effective date of the withdrawal. From the date of notice of withdrawal, the withdrawing member shall have no rights to receive distribution of Conference revenues of any nature (i.e. the Conference shall be entitled to retain distribution for two fiscal years) and shall continue to be obligated to pay Conference expenses, assessments, or debts. Further, the term of office of any Board Member representing a Withdrawing Member shall automatically expire and such Chief Executive Officer shall no longer be a Board Member of the Conference effective as of the notice date or determination of notice to withdraw and such Withdrawing Member shall not be entitled to have a representative on the Board of Directors thereafter. During the period thereafter the number of Board Members shall automatically be reduced by the number of Withdrawing Members; and the Withdrawing Member(s) shall not be permitted to attend any meeting of, vote on any matter before, receive notice of any meeting of, or receive copies of materials distributed to the Board of Directors; the Conference shall however, inform the Chief Executive Officer of a Withdrawing Member about matters (as determined by the Commissioner in his sole discretion) that may materially impact the Withdrawing Member during the period prior to the effective date of the withdrawal in a manner disproportionate to the Withdrawing Member and shall provide the Chief Executive Officer of the Withdrawing Member with a reasonable opportunity for discussion with the Board of Directors on such issues as requested Each of the Members agrees that withdrawal of a member from the Conference would cause damage and financial hardship to the Conference and its continuing members, that the financial consequences to the Conference and its continuing members of such withdrawal cannot be measured or estimated with certainty at this time, and that the withholding of distributions pursuant to the preceding paragraph is a reasonable method of compensating the Conference and the continuing members for such damage and financial hardship and is not and shall not be construed as a penalty.

3.07 Suspension and Expulsion.
A member shall be subject to suspension or expulsion for cause by the Board of Directors (provided, however, that the Director representing the withdrawing member may not participate or vote in connection with any such decision) pursuant to Section 5.02©(iii) if the member:
(a) Fails to meet its financial obligations to the Conference;
(b) Violates any of the provisions of these Bylaws or the rules and regulations of the Conference (collectively referred to as "Conference Legislation") or the NCAA; or,
© Engages in a course of conduct significantly contrary to the best interests or reputation of the Conference and the remaining members of the Conference as determined by the Board of Directors.

A member suspended or expelled for cause shall not be entitled to receive a return of any initiation fee or subsequent contributions paid by it to the Conference, nor shall it (a) be relieved of any financial obligations to the Conference arising prior to such suspension or expulsion, including, without limitation, assessments made pursuant to Section 3.04; or, (b) be entitled to distributions, if any, of Conference income, whether pursuant to Section 5.02(b)(xii) or otherwise, for the fiscal year in which suspension or withdrawal occurs or for any subsequent fiscal years. The suspension or expulsion of a member for cause shall not be deemed a waiver by the Conference or other Conference members of any claims it or they may have against the member for losses or damages incurred as a result of the conduct giving rise to such suspension or expulsion.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like the bolded sentence is C-USA's trump card in all this. That sentence claims that C-USA has a right to get an injunction that forces the SBC 3 to stay one more year. So while they can't force the schools to pay exit fees, perhaps they are trying to hold them hostage to get exit fees.

Am I interpreting this right? Is this even enforceable? Hopefully a real lawyer will chime in and give us some clarification.

Not a lawyer either, but I would bet that's the angle C-USA is pulling right now, would line up with all the "contractual obligation" press releases they've been putting out. But it also seems obvious, which makes me think that the SBC3 lawyers would have thought of it too, and they don't see it as an insurmountable issue. Will be interesting to follow over the next few weeks
02-11-2022 10:56 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:54 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:49 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:34 PM)DogsWin1 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 10:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 08:51 PM)parialex Wrote:  I believe they got their answer. They just didn't like it.
But they didn’t. They refused to respond

That is yet another lie. CUSA did respond.
"We have chosen not to engage publicly, but have communicated with our member institutions and expect them to meet those obligations."

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/statu...30/photo/1

I mean, C-USA could have just lied in their statement

Lol. Like C-USA has any reason to lie about communicating with it's members. Some of you guys are just plain silly.

What if you got caught slacking off at work, might make a white lie or two to try and get out of it. That's what I'm seeing here with the incompetent C-USA front office
02-11-2022 10:58 PM
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DaBigBlue Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
Are the SB3 the first CUSA teams to leave early?

I feel like I'm in a car pool. I tell my rider that I'm not going in on Friday, and they're standing on the corner Friday morning...waiting for me to show up.
02-11-2022 11:05 PM
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parialex Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 10:47 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  A judge is going to make us stay in CUSA? For what? The mild inconvenience of having to draft a different conference schedule?

Having to apply for a waiver to have a conference championship game, with a possibility that waiver is not granted. Potentially renegotiating with TV partners due to the change in inventory. Fewer games through which to get exposure. Redoing the schedule. Lost matchups that had value. But mostly because it was in the contract the schools signed, and not doing an injunction would be irreversible.

Conferences demand a year or more of notice for a reason. That clause isn't unusual. Though it's been done with the mutual agreement of all parties, leaving with eight months notice is unusual.

Would that be enough to get the injunction to prevent them from leaving? Not sure. I could make an argument either way. But even if not, there is a good chance it scares the SBC off from letting them in earlier or even re-arranging their schedule to enable them to leave Conference USA in violation of the contract. The SEC wouldn't take A&M in early unless the Big 12 waived litigation. The Big East and WVU went to court over it.
02-11-2022 11:12 PM
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GEAUX UL Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 09:50 PM)Luckyshot Wrote:  The other six don't have a choice, so lets not act like it's righteous behavior on their part. The lawyers for the three schools think they have an out. I guess we'll see!

What's the best case scenario for C-USA Office? They successfully force us to stay and that story gets reported every game the SB3 play a C-USA opponent next season? Definitely worth the fight.

What's the best case scenario for C-USA? More $$$. Judy has to know she is on the hottest of hot seats. This is her last ditch effort to score a win for C-USA (and save her job.)
02-11-2022 11:12 PM
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parialex Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 11:05 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Are the SB3 the first CUSA teams to leave early?

I feel like I'm in a car pool. I tell my rider that I'm not going in on Friday, and they're standing on the corner Friday morning...waiting for me to show up.

I'm pretty sure they're the first ones to leave with less than a year's notice. FAU and Middle Tennessee left *for* Conference USA with short notice, but were able to negotiate their way out.

As best I can figure, cases of teams leaving conferences with less than a year's notice are:
Texas A&M and Missouri to SEC (successfully negotiated)
West Virginia to the Big 12 (negotiated after lawsuits)
TCU? (Odd case)
FAU and MTSU to C*USA (successfully negotiated)
02-11-2022 11:17 PM
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DaBigBlue Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 11:17 PM)parialex Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 11:05 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Are the SB3 the first CUSA teams to leave early?

I feel like I'm in a car pool. I tell my rider that I'm not going in on Friday, and they're standing on the corner Friday morning...waiting for me to show up.

I'm pretty sure they're the first ones to leave with less than a year's notice. FAU and Middle Tennessee left *for* Conference USA with short notice, but were able to negotiate their way out.

As best I can figure, cases of teams leaving conferences with less than a year's notice are:
Texas A&M and Missouri to SEC (successfully negotiated)
West Virginia to the Big 12 (negotiated after lawsuits)
TCU? (Odd case)
FAU and MTSU to C*USA (successfully negotiated)

Guess the SB3 should of paid the fees, for MTSU and WKU to join the MAC and put the CUSA in the ground. Would of been cheaper.
02-11-2022 11:26 PM
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Retroview1955 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
(02-11-2022 11:26 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 11:17 PM)parialex Wrote:  
(02-11-2022 11:05 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Are the SB3 the first CUSA teams to leave early?

I feel like I'm in a car pool. I tell my rider that I'm not going in on Friday, and they're standing on the corner Friday morning...waiting for me to show up.

I'm pretty sure they're the first ones to leave with less than a year's notice. FAU and Middle Tennessee left *for* Conference USA with short notice, but were able to negotiate their way out.

As best I can figure, cases of teams leaving conferences with less than a year's notice are:
Texas A&M and Missouri to SEC (successfully negotiated)
West Virginia to the Big 12 (negotiated after lawsuits)
TCU? (Odd case)
FAU and MTSU to C*USA (successfully negotiated)

Guess the SB3 should of paid the fees, for MTSU and WKU to join the MAC and put the CUSA in the ground. Would of been cheaper.

It was reported as there not being any no financial penalty in by-laws. Why would it got to court if that part wasn't in the contract? Am I missing something?
02-12-2022 01:08 AM
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MT FAN Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Brett McMurphy: there is no financial penalty in by-laws (CUSA)
MT and FAU paid 1 million each to leave the Sun Belt early. I suspect the schools leaving will have to do something similar when it's all said and done.
02-12-2022 07:54 AM
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