(01-24-2023 02:58 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:30 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:07 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 01:49 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  I now once again have to admire Trump for the "yeah I got 'em, whaddaya gonna do about it?" approach.

It sure is a heck of a lot more admirable than these idiots and their "heyyyyyy... how did these get here??? " act.

True. Both Biden and Pence wimped out by immediately notifying the appropriate authority and returned the government's property.

Biden and Pence are insulting our intelligence

Lolz. I love it when the 'the 2020 election was stolen' crowd and the 'conspiracies R us' crowd starts out with that phrase.

Coming from the "I can't define what a woman is" crowd.

You want to play that game (FILL IN PRONOUN) ???

I dont come that crowd you speak of, dude. Funny that.

You are correct that that side is pathetic in not being able to define a woman. But again, in your race for a 'whadabout' you just do a giant whiff about my viewpoint.

Imagine that.

Now do Obama, Bill, Hillary (again), Bush, Cheney



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"Hey, ... I was a guest in your house and now I come to find all your silverware and two of your televisions piled in my garage. I'll tell the cops. Then we're all good, right?"

(01-24-2023 03:18 PM)maximus Wrote:  Now do Obama, Bill, Hillary (again), Bush, Cheney

Never say "do" and "Hillary" in the same sentence. Never.

(01-24-2023 02:33 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:30 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 02:07 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 01:49 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  I now once again have to admire Trump for the "yeah I got 'em, whaddaya gonna do about it?" approach.

It sure is a heck of a lot more admirable than these idiots and their "heyyyyyy... how did these get here??? " act.

True. Both Biden and Pence wimped out by immediately notifying the appropriate authority and returned the government's property.

Biden and Pence are insulting our intelligence by acting like they didn't know they were there.

If Trump is guilty then Pence and Biden are guilty just the same. But not to you obviously.

Ole Gin Breath can explain to you exactly why they are not the same.

Lots of us can explain it to you both, but we can't make you understand it.

IIRC, for this to be the crime you think it is, there probably has to be some intent. You have to imagine that these guys leave office with tons of stuff. You pretty much have to show that they knowingly took this stuff when it should have been sent off to NARA. In all likelihood, they had little to nothing to do with boxing it all up and shipping it home.

In both the case of Pence and Biden with what we know so far, there isn't intent to illegally take these things. So since they both appear to be cooperating and return the docs, the chances of a crime are likely to be small. But yes, the investigation could show otherwise...and if so, both should be charged if warranted.

trump's problem is that he didn't give the stuff back when asked, and lied about several parts of. That IS likely intent that should/could result in charges.

Tigercity starts a thread that a Republican does something wrong:

(01-24-2023 02:34 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  OMFG...........


Is this gonna be another 26 page thread of I'm Rubber You're Glue................

No. One. Is. Making. You. Click. On. It.

Quote:Looking at that precedent, DOJ has never prosecuted someone for inadvertently taking a classified document home.

That is highly unlikely given the number of people who have been convicted. I guarantee you there are people who claim they have been prosecuted for exactly that.

Doesn't the Water Carriers International Union have rules? Tom is due a break this afternoon, according to the bylaws.

(01-24-2023 03:38 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Doesn't the Water Carriers International Union have rules? Tom is due a break this afternoon, according to the bylaws.

You're a complete and utter moron. What water have I carried here? Have I excused Biden for anything in this?

Clueless ******* Wonders, that's your union.

(01-24-2023 03:36 PM)Claw Wrote:  

Quote:Looking at that precedent, DOJ has never prosecuted someone for inadvertently taking a classified document home.

That is highly unlikely given the number of people who have been convicted. I guarantee you there are people who claim they have been prosecuted for exactly that.

Section 793 has various sections, and many sections have differing levels of criminal intent.

Given the greater willingness to actually get the stuff back, most of the items that could be prosecuted under 793 (f) (the lowest criminal intent of 'recklessly' for that section) -- arent.

The other sections apart from (f) make it a *requirement* (that is an element, having to be proven 'beyond a reasonable doubt') to show the actions being undertaken 'willingly' and 'knowingly'.

Again, this goes hand in hand with the cooperation aspect. The more obstructive and more resistive the person is, that can actually be evidence of 'willing' and 'knowing'. As can be *where* and *how* they are stored (in a private office, typically only used by one person, stored in close proximity to a passport and other personal items known to have been used by the person...)

And in extreme cases those actions rise to their own chargeable offenses. Things like making a false statement to a Fed officer (telling the Feds at MaL that no other documents under the subpoena existed at the premises), making a false statement under oath (Robb submitting a sworn statement that that no other documents under the subpoena existed at the premises and that MaL had been searched diligently), or continued and persistent efforts to derail a lawful inquiry (previous two examples, and many more) are good examples.

The level of cooperation drastically affects the actions of the government in response to these types of issues.

(01-24-2023 04:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If we gave two ***** what this demoted piss tester thinks, we'd follow his lame ass on twitter already.

(01-24-2023 12:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 12:43 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 12:32 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Imagine that.

Yet, we've only had a single person to be raided. (And that person was someone who absolutely had legal authority to have these documents in his possession.)

Yet he didn't follow the process he needed to follow to declassify those documents. Why can't both sides just be honest here? Yes, Trump COULD HAVE declassified whatever he wanted to declassify but saying he did after the fact that he did not is kind of stupid. Biden and Trump are both guilty here. In Biden's case does appear to be a lot worse since some of this happened when he was VP and a Senator, 2 roles in which he couldn't have been declassifying information if he wanted to.

You keep repeating this over and over and over....

like the MSM thinks if they repeat something enough....it makes it true.

The damn President IS the process. The President can have a classified paper in his hand and CHOOSE to show it to others in that room or on TV or anywhere else. It's not a crime and he doesn't need to go through a damn "process" to do just that. That is an absolute power the President has.

This is literally the first time I've commented on my opinion of the Trump situation vs the Biden situation. Your reading comprehension sucks or your memory sucks. Maybe both.

And NO, the President isn't the process. All that said nothing is going to come out of this. Not following the declassification process is basically getting Trump in a technicality whereas Biden straight up broke the law if he did this as a Senator. Trump's basically saying FU to the process whereas Biden is just looking like a complete retard. You pick which is more tolerable.

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(01-24-2023 12:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  The damn President IS the process.

That is an absolute power the President has.

Well.... you might want to take a gander at this Executive Order and reconsider....

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-...o13526.pdf

Which interestingly has neither been superceded nor revoked.

Or did the Orange Man 'revoke' that with the famous Jedi / Vulcan mind meld trick? The 'process' is that the President *can* revoke an EO, but only by another explicit EO. You know -- a, well, uh..... process.

You might want to save the link there. You might at some point need to incessantly badger someone for it at sometime. Lord forbid if they have already done so..... who knows what conniptions you might get in that sandy crotch about how they are pulling air out their ass at that point.

--------------------------------------------

By the way sparky, did you find, get, and peruse the statement under oath that you were previously demanding like they were the emergency nuclear codes?

Oh, and additionally by the way, you are welcome for that link that I had previously posted --- multiple times. And, you may want to reconsider telling me I was pulling air out of my ass on it. Or not.

(01-24-2023 04:23 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 12:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 12:43 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 12:32 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Imagine that.

Yet, we've only had a single person to be raided. (And that person was someone who absolutely had legal authority to have these documents in his possession.)

Yet he didn't follow the process he needed to follow to declassify those documents. Why can't both sides just be honest here? Yes, Trump COULD HAVE declassified whatever he wanted to declassify but saying he did after the fact that he did not is kind of stupid. Biden and Trump are both guilty here. In Biden's case does appear to be a lot worse since some of this happened when he was VP and a Senator, 2 roles in which he couldn't have been declassifying information if he wanted to.

You keep repeating this over and over and over....

like the MSM thinks if they repeat something enough....it makes it true.

The damn President IS the process. The President can have a classified paper in his hand and CHOOSE to show it to others in that room or on TV or anywhere else. It's not a crime and he doesn't need to go through a damn "process" to do just that. That is an absolute power the President has.

This is literally the first time I've commented on my opinion of the Trump situation vs the Biden situation. Your reading comprehension sucks or your memory sucks. Maybe both.

And NO, the President isn't the process. All that said nothing is going to come out of this. Not following the declassification process is basically getting Trump in a technicality whereas Biden straight up broke the law if he did this as a Senator. Trump's basically saying FU to the process whereas Biden is just looking like a complete retard. You pick which is more tolerable.

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Again, the issue with trump is not really that he had them. It's the lying and obstruction. The cover-up is usually worse than the crime...and in this case, there was likely no crime. trump did this all to himself with his idiotic bluster and ego...and oh...hiring complete boobs for lawyers.

(01-24-2023 04:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 04:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If we gave two ***** what this demoted piss tester thinks, we'd follow his lame ass on twitter already.

How many do you have?

(01-24-2023 04:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 04:04 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

If we gave two ***** what this demoted piss tester thinks, we'd follow his lame ass on twitter already.

Didn’t you just say something earlier about no one forcing you to read it?

(01-24-2023 04:44 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(01-24-2023 12:55 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  The damn President IS the process.

That is an absolute power the President has.

Well.... you might want to take a gander at this Executive Order and reconsider....

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-...o13526.pdf

Which interestingly has never been superceded nor revoked.

By the sparky, did you find, get, and peruse the statement under oath that you were previously demanding like they were the emergency nuclear codes?

By the way, you are welcome for that. And, you might want to reconsider telling me I was pulling air out of my ass on it. Or not.

EOs NEVER limit the power of the President provided to him by the Constitution. They only add to that power until another branch limits those added powers. Until the SCOTUS sees an individual case regarding POTUS's and Classified information, nothing is settled. They will NEVER try such a case because they are an equal Branch. Classification and therefore de-classification powers only lie within the Executive Branch, which IS the POTUS. Everyone under him works at his pleasure.