(06-01-2023 12:50 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:46 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  AAU Membership by FBS Conference
B1G: 14
ACC: 8
Pac12: 8
SEC: 5
AAC: 3
Big12: 1
MAC: 1

B1G is either 13 (all but Nebraska) or 15 (+UCLA/USC).

Which, is there a point at which the B1G uses the AAU status to actually kick Nebraska out of the B1G?

EDIT: Like, Nebraska is a outlier to the B1G by essentially all metrics except football ratings. If they just never get it together, does the B1G kick them out and then the SEC can pick them up and pair them back with Oklahoma?

My mistake, its 15

Big Ten = 15
Rutgers, USC, UCLA, Ohio State, Penn State, Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Michigan State, Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Purdue, Indiana

ACC = 8
Pitt, Duke, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Boston College, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Miami

Pac-12 = 8
Cal, Stanford, Washington, Colorado, Arizona, Utah, Oregon, Arizona State

SEC = 5
Texas A&M, Vanderbilt, Texas, Mizzou, Florida

AAU = 3
Rice, Tulane, USF

Big 12 = 1
Kansas

MAC = 1
Buffalo

How long to the rumor that the Big 10 schools okayed this for ND as long as we join their conference?

I will say under 2 hours.

(06-01-2023 12:58 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  How long to the rumor that the Big 10 schools okayed this for ND as long as we join their conference?

I will say under 2 hours.

(06-01-2023 12:47 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:30 PM)Aztec Since 88 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:18 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:45 AM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  I think it does move them above Utah and UA. Non zero chance it moves them above Oregon.

I was just thinking the same vis a vis Oregon. However, Oregon is still a bigger national Brand than ASU and they're still AAU, so I'd probably keep Oregon a bit ahead of ASU.

Very interesting that the AAU decided to just add some without removing anybody. I wonder if their move towards more of a lobbying group rather than just a social club had any impact on this decision.

Iowa St. just got forced out.

I think technically Iowa St withdrew from the AAU before being kicked out.

https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news...441834001/

The most important thing about how the Big Ten looks at academics is that it’s a pass/fail test. As bryanw1995 noted, a school is either academically qualified for the Big Ten or it isn’t. AAU status means that a school is presumed to be academically qualified.

However, that’s where it ends. Once a school is academically qualified, it then becomes solely a determination about how much athletic and financial value a school brings to the table. ASU and USF may be academically qualified for the Big Ten, but that doesn’t mean that they would bring more athletic/financial value than Oregon or Miami. There are no two better academic additions out there than Stanford and Cal (and they’re in a huge market, to boot), yet the Big Ten hasn’t added them.

Not being academically qualified means that you don’t get considered by the Big Ten at all. However, you also don’t get extra points for being at the top of academically qualified group (or else Stanford and Cal would already be in the Big Ten).

I agree with this. This doesn't make USF more desirable to the B1G than Oregon, Stanford, Miami, etc. Academic qualification is a necessary but far from sufficient condition to be wanted by the B1G.

But, another way to look at it is that before today, in the eyes of the B1G we were neither academically qualified nor athletically qualified. Today, we're academically qualified. We've gone from 0/2 to 1/2 on those criteria.

So one down, one to go. :)

(06-01-2023 12:45 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:18 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:45 AM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:40 AM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  Soooooooo let me ask a question, Does ASU now jump up to number 3 or 4 on the B1G expansion list? I say yes but others might feel differently

I think it does move them above Utah and UA. Non zero chance it moves them above Oregon.

I was just thinking the same vis a vis Oregon. However, Oregon is still a bigger national Brand than ASU and they're still AAU, so I'd probably keep Oregon a bit ahead of ASU.

Very interesting that the AAU decided to just add some without removing anybody. I wonder if their move towards more of a lobbying group rather than just a social club had any impact on this decision.

Iowa St. just got forced out.

That was more than a year ago. And even though that seems related to this announcement today, it's still just removing 1 to add 6. Last time, they forced out 2 to add 2.

Well from the 90s to 2011 they added 5 (UCI, UCD, UCSB, A&M, Stony Brook) and dropped 2 (Catholic, Clark). They dropped 2 in 2011 (UNL, Syracuse), but have added 12 since then (Georgia Tech, Boston U., Utah, Dartmouth, UCSC, Tufts + the 6 now), . I don't think they are limiting themselves. They just aren't adding from the bottom.

(06-01-2023 12:51 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:13 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Where does this put USF in relation to conference realignment. Are any of the Big 10, ACC, Big 12, or SEC realistic options.

Reminder that USF is building a new 340M On campus stadium, ready by the 2026 season.

There are 3-4 spots remaining in the hypothetical 72-73 (if ND continues its nonsense) team Tier 1 Football. So USF now has a great chance of being one of the last entrants.

Self determination and free will is not "nonsense".

(06-01-2023 12:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:50 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:46 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  AAU Membership by FBS Conference
B1G: 14
ACC: 8
Pac12: 8
SEC: 5
AAC: 3
Big12: 1
MAC: 1

B1G is either 13 (all but Nebraska) or 15 (+UCLA/USC).

Which, is there a point at which the B1G uses the AAU status to actually kick Nebraska out of the B1G?

EDIT: Like, Nebraska is a outlier to the B1G by essentially all metrics except football ratings. If they just never get it together, does the B1G kick them out and then the SEC can pick them up and pair them back with Oklahoma?

No - schools don’t get kicked out unless they’re actually violating by-laws and contracts. Plus, Nebraska makes money for the Big Ten.

Michigan and Wisconsin themselves voted Nebraska out of the AAU only months after inviting them to the Big Ten. If Michigan and Wisconsin hadn’t voted that way, Nebraska wouldn’t have been removed. (This is further evidence that the true academic snobs in the Big Ten are Michigan and Wisconsin as opposed to Northwestern. Northwestern is confident in its academic stature no matter what happens to them, but Michigan and Wisconsin have to be more outwardly and publicly exclusive.)

Snobs, yes. But also isn't it a good thing that they upheld the AAU guidelines as they saw them instead of not voting no on Nebraska just because they were joining the Big Ten?

I mean, since Nebraska got booted that means a lot of schools voted them out. Are all the schools that voted them out snobs? You could pick any of those two schools and say they are the reason Nebraska got removed.

It's just a weird argument from you. Does Illinois hate those two schools? Isn't Illinois pretty much the same academic snob vibes as those two?

Also the notion that the B12 is going to be the de facto M1 conference because they signed the last conventional media deal for 6 years is going to die in the next month or so.

The institutional similarities of the PAC and ACC will make those conferences the nucleus of any M1 conference- and the sooner the better IMO.

(06-01-2023 12:38 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:17 PM)Alanda Wrote:  Congrats to the schools that made it.

(06-01-2023 11:55 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:31 AM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  USF
Notre Dame
Arizona State
Miami
University of California - Riverside
George Washington

Crap, now I need to reevaluate all those "The B1G wouldn't want Miami b/c Academics" posts that I've recently made...

LOL. What did you base that on if you're not joking? The things I had seen made them just the right candidate even before this announcement.

They'd be in the bottom 3 of the current 16 team B1G in ARWU. Not AAU. Not Flagship. No recent Athletic success (not even a single top 10 finish in their 20 years in the ACC).

AAU fixes the Academics question, they no longer need to be THE BEST athletically to overcome their "weak-ish" Academics. As Frank said in his original writeup on B1G expansion, you're either Academically qualified or you're not. Miami is now Academically qualified and on the short list, this could easily turn several no votes into Yes votes for them, probably enough to get them an invite.

Being bot 3 and being way outside the 16 are very different though. They were already spending on par with Missouri and Kansas who were already AAU. And had really good graduation rates. Seemed like they already had what was needed to be a fit for the B1G. Miami gaining AAU status didn't come as a surprise to me based on what I saw before this.

(06-01-2023 12:50 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  B1G is either 13 (all but Nebraska) or 15 (+UCLA/USC).

Which, is there a point at which the B1G uses the AAU status to actually kick Nebraska out of the B1G?

EDIT: Like, Nebraska is a outlier to the B1G by essentially all metrics except football ratings. If they just never get it together, does the B1G kick them out and then the SEC can pick them up and pair them back with Oklahoma?

You add UO and UW now, but then when the Phil Knight effect wears off and they lose AAU, kick them out along with UN , assuming they don't end up being juggernauts in the B1G. Then add ASU Miami Stanford and one more for 20.

(06-01-2023 12:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:00 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:35 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Official Press Release:

https://www.aau.edu/newsroom/press-relea...iversities

This certainly changes the calculus in terms of the Big Ten and Miami as well as Arizona State. I was almost positive the Big Ten would've taken Notre Dame without being AAU but now that's not even an issue.

This might explain ASU's reluctance to move to the big 12. They have their sights set on the P2 now. And not just the B1G. We've seen the SEC take a whole bunch of AAU schools recently, and ASU might be an intriguing #21-24 range school for us, too. Miami? They just just got a big boost for both SEC or B1G membership.

It's a nice feather for Notre Dame, but I doubt it alters their trajectory. It makes Miami more palpable for the Big 10 given their private status which is a tad outside of Big 10 norms. I don't think it changes the calculus on Arizona State though. A state of 7 million with 2 AAU schools? It looks like a split state situation shaping up at best.

What it does do is make 8 PAC schools a bit more attractive to other conferences. It will still boil down to profitability. IMO, this actually raises Colorado's stock as they connect Arizona to the SEC and to the Big 10. Colorado and the Arizona schools also connect the Big 10 to Southern California.

I would still like to see the SEC look to the future. Now we have a trajectory with accolades to go with USF. They have land to expand. They are in a strategic demographic into Central and the real South Florida. They tie into an strong SEC region of the state. Take them and grow them and paired with UF that's quite a reach in 10 years. You don't even have to wait. Pick up Colorado and the 2 Arizona schools to go with them and move to 20 and wait on the ACC resolution. If Kansas can shake free pick them and 1 Arizona school. Then when the ACC is able to break up you add North Carolina, Virginia and consider the 3rd & 4th. If you want academics and basketball you add Duke and 1 of Pitt, Ga Tech and Miami. If you want football you add FSU and Clemson.

I think USF is the most interesting addition to AAU.

What do you mean by that? I've been to Florida twice, not my bag.

I give you credit here. At first I thought you were mad discussing USF (still feels weird as a basketball history junkie) as an SEC possibility. I did a little research and have been saying lately they have a higher ceiling than FSU in some regards and would be a fine replacement.

(06-01-2023 01:03 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:50 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:46 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  AAU Membership by FBS Conference
B1G: 14
ACC: 8
Pac12: 8
SEC: 5
AAC: 3
Big12: 1
MAC: 1

B1G is either 13 (all but Nebraska) or 15 (+UCLA/USC).

Which, is there a point at which the B1G uses the AAU status to actually kick Nebraska out of the B1G?

EDIT: Like, Nebraska is a outlier to the B1G by essentially all metrics except football ratings. If they just never get it together, does the B1G kick them out and then the SEC can pick them up and pair them back with Oklahoma?

No - schools don’t get kicked out unless they’re actually violating by-laws and contracts. Plus, Nebraska makes money for the Big Ten.

Michigan and Wisconsin themselves voted Nebraska out of the AAU only months after inviting them to the Big Ten. If Michigan and Wisconsin hadn’t voted that way, Nebraska wouldn’t have been removed. (This is further evidence that the true academic snobs in the Big Ten are Michigan and Wisconsin as opposed to Northwestern. Northwestern is confident in its academic stature no matter what happens to them, but Michigan and Wisconsin have to be more outwardly and publicly exclusive.)

Snobs, yes. But also isn't it a good thing that they upheld the AAU guidelines as they saw them instead of not voting no on Nebraska just because they were joining the Big Ten?

I mean, since Nebraska got booted that means a lot of schools voted them out. Are all the schools that voted them out snobs? You could pick any of those two schools and say they are the reason Nebraska got removed.

It's just a weird argument from you. Does Illinois hate those two schools? Isn't Illinois pretty much the same academic snob vibes as those two?

No, I don’t think that everyone that voted Nebraska out is a snob.

My point is more highlighting that a lot of observers think that the elite private schools like Northwestern (or Stanford or Duke) are the ones that have the most elitist standards when it comes to different group votes (whether it’s the AAU or conference expansion), but it’s really that group of schools that don’t have the same “lay prestige” that either consciously or subconsciously vote in more exclusionary manners since they are incentivized to separate themselves further. (And yes, Illinois can sometimes be guilty of that, too, although they ultimately supported Nebraska.)

(06-01-2023 11:43 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:37 AM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  Watch the Big Ten screw up and invite Miami (Ohio) instead of Miami (Florida).

Miami, the one in Oxford, not Coral Gables, is an excellent school, too, and worthy of AAU status.

One of Moll's original Public Ivies.

Original list published in 1985

College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California (applies to the campuses as of 1985: Berkeley, Los Angeles, San Diego, Irvine, Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Riverside)
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Wow. That's the biggest class since 1900. I was not expecting that.

(06-01-2023 01:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:45 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:24 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:18 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 11:45 AM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  I think it does move them above Utah and UA. Non zero chance it moves them above Oregon.

I was just thinking the same vis a vis Oregon. However, Oregon is still a bigger national Brand than ASU and they're still AAU, so I'd probably keep Oregon a bit ahead of ASU.

Very interesting that the AAU decided to just add some without removing anybody. I wonder if their move towards more of a lobbying group rather than just a social club had any impact on this decision.

Iowa St. just got forced out.

That was more than a year ago. And even though that seems related to this announcement today, it's still just removing 1 to add 6. Last time, they forced out 2 to add 2.

Well from the 90s to 2011 they added 5 (UCI, UCD, UCSB, A&M, Stony Brook) and dropped 2 (Catholic, Clark). They dropped 2 in 2011 (UNL, Syracuse), but have added 12 since then (Georgia Tech, Boston U., Utah, Dartmouth, UCSC, Tufts + the 6 now), . I don't think they are limiting themselves. They just aren't adding from the bottom.

It's weird that GT just recently joined, I'd forgotten that. They're very near the top of the Publics Academically.

(06-01-2023 01:03 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:51 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:13 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Where does this put USF in relation to conference realignment. Are any of the Big 10, ACC, Big 12, or SEC realistic options.

Reminder that USF is building a new 340M On campus stadium, ready by the 2026 season.

There are 3-4 spots remaining in the hypothetical 72-73 (if ND continues its nonsense) team Tier 1 Football. So USF now has a great chance of being one of the last entrants.

Self determination and free will is not "nonsense".

"Self-determination and free will"? Give me a break. You guys are 2/3 of the way into the ACC in football and 100% in it in everything else. Heck, you WON the ACC regular season title a couple years ago.

I have nothing but respect for ND, and I don't care if you guys want to continue with your illusion of independence. But saying it's all about self-determination and free will actually IS nonsense.

If the BE had a bunch of football powerhouses you'd join them for all sports in a heartbeat.

(06-01-2023 01:23 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 01:03 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:51 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:13 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Where does this put USF in relation to conference realignment. Are any of the Big 10, ACC, Big 12, or SEC realistic options.

Reminder that USF is building a new 340M On campus stadium, ready by the 2026 season.

There are 3-4 spots remaining in the hypothetical 72-73 (if ND continues its nonsense) team Tier 1 Football. So USF now has a great chance of being one of the last entrants.

Self determination and free will is not "nonsense".

"Self-determination and free will"? Give me a break. You guys are 2/3 of the way into the ACC in football and 100% in it in everything else. Heck, you WON the ACC regular season title a couple years ago.

I have nothing but respect for ND, and I don't care if you guys want to continue with your illusion of independence. But saying it's all about self-determination and free will actually IS nonsense.

If the BE had a bunch of football powerhouses you'd join them for all sports in a heartbeat.

As long as they're recognized as Independent in the NCAA's standings, they're Independent. Whether you like it or not lol

(06-01-2023 01:23 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 01:03 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:51 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:13 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  Where does this put USF in relation to conference realignment. Are any of the Big 10, ACC, Big 12, or SEC realistic options.

Reminder that USF is building a new 340M On campus stadium, ready by the 2026 season.

There are 3-4 spots remaining in the hypothetical 72-73 (if ND continues its nonsense) team Tier 1 Football. So USF now has a great chance of being one of the last entrants.

Self determination and free will is not "nonsense".

"Self-determination and free will"? Give me a break. You guys are 2/3 of the way into the ACC in football and 100% in it in everything else. Heck, you WON the ACC regular season title a couple years ago.

I have nothing but respect for ND, and I don't care if you guys want to continue with your illusion of independence. But saying it's all about self-determination and free will actually IS nonsense.

If the BE had a bunch of football powerhouses you'd join them for all sports in a heartbeat.

Its about deciding to be and stay a football independent and not being forced into a conference against its will.

Hence "self determination" and "free will".

(there is no ACC regular season title and ND ran back to independence as soon as it could)

If you don't like that, too damn bad.

Your last line is false to the point of being nonsensical.

(06-01-2023 01:03 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:57 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:50 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(06-01-2023 12:46 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  AAU Membership by FBS Conference
B1G: 14
ACC: 8
Pac12: 8
SEC: 5
AAC: 3
Big12: 1
MAC: 1

B1G is either 13 (all but Nebraska) or 15 (+UCLA/USC).

Which, is there a point at which the B1G uses the AAU status to actually kick Nebraska out of the B1G?

EDIT: Like, Nebraska is a outlier to the B1G by essentially all metrics except football ratings. If they just never get it together, does the B1G kick them out and then the SEC can pick them up and pair them back with Oklahoma?

No - schools don’t get kicked out unless they’re actually violating by-laws and contracts. Plus, Nebraska makes money for the Big Ten.

Michigan and Wisconsin themselves voted Nebraska out of the AAU only months after inviting them to the Big Ten. If Michigan and Wisconsin hadn’t voted that way, Nebraska wouldn’t have been removed. (This is further evidence that the true academic snobs in the Big Ten are Michigan and Wisconsin as opposed to Northwestern. Northwestern is confident in its academic stature no matter what happens to them, but Michigan and Wisconsin have to be more outwardly and publicly exclusive.)

Snobs, yes. But also isn't it a good thing that they upheld the AAU guidelines as they saw them instead of not voting no on Nebraska just because they were joining the Big Ten?

I mean, since Nebraska got booted that means a lot of schools voted them out. Are all the schools that voted them out snobs? You could pick any of those two schools and say they are the reason Nebraska got removed.

It's just a weird argument from you. Does Illinois hate those two schools? Isn't Illinois pretty much the same academic snob vibes as those two?

Every AAU school in the big 12 and B1G voted to support Nebraska except Wisconsin and Michigan. Perlman didn't do them any favors with his antics, who knows how the vote would have gone down if he'd been a bit more humble and a bit less combative?

As for Wisconsin and Michigan's motives? Who knows? Who cares?

(06-01-2023 01:05 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Also the notion that the B12 is going to be the de facto M1 conference because they signed the last conventional media deal for 6 years is going to die in the next month or so.

The institutional similarities of the PAC and ACC will make those conferences the nucleus of any M1 conference- and the sooner the better IMO.

Says the guy who thought UCSD was a good backfill candidate for the Pac.