(08-31-2023 09:40 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 09:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:49 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:14 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:45 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  He'll get the 46% he got in 2016 and 2020.

He'll fall to 1-2 in the career win loss record.

He's about the only candidate that can get this clown show administration another 4 years.

Instead of complaining about people supporting a candidate, how about offering a solution.

Something that would make anyone on that stage last week even remotely electable.

A solution to what, CJ? I’m not trying to be cute, here. I honestly don’t know what problem you are asking rath (and others) to solve for.

If the problem is how to win back the White House in 2024, then the solution is to do something different than was done in 2020. Is Donald Trump doing something different? If so, I’m not seeing it. All I am seeing is him re-litigating his total eff-up of the 2020 campaign, and in the process being dragged down (admittedly unfairly, but that’s mostly beside the point) by the ongoing political prosecutions and endless crying about it.

What different is he going to do? Ducking debates does nothing to advance the ball. Pointing out microscopic shortcomings in his opponents while ignoring gaping concerns with Donald’s fitness is politically suicidal.

rath doesn’t need to answer your question. He is a voter and a concerned citizen. Donald Trump needs to answer that question. And he is failing miserably.

My question is not so much about DJT but an alternative candidate. Who on the stage would do a better job leading the country? As far as I’m concerned, I’m looking for suggestions.

I doubt that my opinion on this will satisfy you - - nor should it; you've clearly put a lot of careful thought into this. If it is your considered conclusion is that there is no one who will do better than Donald Trump in the general election, than that is who you should support (and donate to?) in the primaries.

Just know that I and others don't see it that way:

--> Of those on the stage, at least three would unquestionably do MUCH better than Donald Trump in responding to underhanded "gotcha" attacks from the media: DeSantis, Haley and Scott.

--> Another three are also more capable than Trump is at dealing with personal attacks and lies, but admittedly do have their own personality quirks that risk turning off voters: Christie, Pence and Ramaswamy.

--> Burghum has a public recognition problem, which I don't think he can overcome. But if he were somehow to emerge to the forefront, he struck me at least initially as someone who can hold his own.

--> Of the eight who were on stage, my opinion is that only Asa Hutchinson is a worse option than Donald Trump. He seems to me to be a weakling, and likely would fold in the face of any media criticism.

(There are plenty of others, not on stage, who likewise would fare well as the Republican nominee. Rand Paul is the one that I personally wish was in the mix. But he is not the only other possibility.)

Again, this is all just my own opinion. It is worth no more than what you just paid to read it.

I actually like DeSantis and Scott. Halley is too pro-war for me. Don’t get me wrong, I thought she gave some great answers but she’s too close to the military complex for me.

I like Tim Scott but I actually think he’s too nice to be president. I’m not sure he could make the tough decisions.

Presently I’m torn between DeSantis and DJT. I like DeSantis. He’s not a politician and didn’t shine in the debate because he’s not comfortable in front of the camera like DJT. I like what DeSantis has done in Florida. I especially like the way he handles the media.

My only concern with DeSantis is who is he going to owe if he wins the White House. I believe the Republican establishment has sunk its claws into DeSantis with their checkbooks. If I could be assured that he would serve the American people as President the way he has as Florida Governor, I would vote for him.

Christie is an a- hole. I can’t believe the good people of New Jersey elected him. Pence is a good man. Unfortunately his politics are stuck in the cold war era. I’m going to enjoy watching Vivek mature. He’s going to be a force in the next 8-12 years.

If something happens to Trump, DeSantis will win the election. I have no doubt that he does. My question is how do they get DJT out of the way.

So far I’ve seen Tucker, Bongino and Kirk all talk about DJT not being safe. They’ve all recently used the word assassination. Couple that with Pence’s strange comments I would say something is going on.

(08-31-2023 01:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 09:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:49 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:14 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:45 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  He'll get the 46% he got in 2016 and 2020.

He'll fall to 1-2 in the career win loss record.

He's about the only candidate that can get this clown show administration another 4 years.

Instead of complaining about people supporting a candidate, how about offering a solution.

Something that would make anyone on that stage last week even remotely electable.

A solution to what, CJ? I’m not trying to be cute, here. I honestly don’t know what problem you are asking rath (and others) to solve for.

If the problem is how to win back the White House in 2024, then the solution is to do something different than was done in 2020. Is Donald Trump doing something different? If so, I’m not seeing it. All I am seeing is him re-litigating his total eff-up of the 2020 campaign, and in the process being dragged down (admittedly unfairly, but that’s mostly beside the point) by the ongoing political prosecutions and endless crying about it.

What different is he going to do? Ducking debates does nothing to advance the ball. Pointing out microscopic shortcomings in his opponents while ignoring gaping concerns with Donald’s fitness is politically suicidal.

rath doesn’t need to answer your question. He is a voter and a concerned citizen. Donald Trump needs to answer that question. And he is failing miserably.

My question is not so much about DJT but an alternative candidate. Who on the stage would do a better job leading the country? As far as I’m concerned, I’m looking for suggestions.

DeSantis, Haley, Pence.
Don't know enough about Scott. Vivek is too inexperienced. Christie let bridge problems happen in NJ. The other two are clueless never-Trumpers.

I can see why someone that loves Bush and thinks he did a great job would say that about those 3....

They would do best for the party that is almost as out of touch with America as the progressives. They would tell you what you want to hear to get your vote and talk about it while President and talk and talk and talk. At the end of their term the "politicians" are doing nothing different

(08-31-2023 02:56 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 09:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:49 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:14 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Instead of complaining about people supporting a candidate, how about offering a solution.

Something that would make anyone on that stage last week even remotely electable.

A solution to what, CJ? I’m not trying to be cute, here. I honestly don’t know what problem you are asking rath (and others) to solve for.

If the problem is how to win back the White House in 2024, then the solution is to do something different than was done in 2020. Is Donald Trump doing something different? If so, I’m not seeing it. All I am seeing is him re-litigating his total eff-up of the 2020 campaign, and in the process being dragged down (admittedly unfairly, but that’s mostly beside the point) by the ongoing political prosecutions and endless crying about it.

What different is he going to do? Ducking debates does nothing to advance the ball. Pointing out microscopic shortcomings in his opponents while ignoring gaping concerns with Donald’s fitness is politically suicidal.

rath doesn’t need to answer your question. He is a voter and a concerned citizen. Donald Trump needs to answer that question. And he is failing miserably.

My question is not so much about DJT but an alternative candidate. Who on the stage would do a better job leading the country? As far as I’m concerned, I’m looking for suggestions.

DeSantis, Haley, Pence.
Don't know enough about Scott. Vivek is too inexperienced. Christie let bridge problems happen in NJ. The other two are clueless never-Trumpers.

Pence would be a Democrat before his term was over. The question isn't who would do a better job as POTUS than Trump. It is who can get more votes? There will be a lot of people that will vote for Trump this time that voted for Joe last time. Remember Trump got over 12million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016. And who here remembers who the Democrat VP candidate was in 2016? Why is he no longer a viable candidate for the Democrats?

Pence is very conservative and a fundamentalist. The Democrats would sooner burn him at the stake than let him in their party. NOW, he has been institutionalized like Red in Shawshank Redemption, so I won't vote for him, but he would do a decent job as president.

(08-31-2023 03:24 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 09:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:49 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:14 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Instead of complaining about people supporting a candidate, how about offering a solution.

Something that would make anyone on that stage last week even remotely electable.

A solution to what, CJ? I’m not trying to be cute, here. I honestly don’t know what problem you are asking rath (and others) to solve for.

If the problem is how to win back the White House in 2024, then the solution is to do something different than was done in 2020. Is Donald Trump doing something different? If so, I’m not seeing it. All I am seeing is him re-litigating his total eff-up of the 2020 campaign, and in the process being dragged down (admittedly unfairly, but that’s mostly beside the point) by the ongoing political prosecutions and endless crying about it.

What different is he going to do? Ducking debates does nothing to advance the ball. Pointing out microscopic shortcomings in his opponents while ignoring gaping concerns with Donald’s fitness is politically suicidal.

rath doesn’t need to answer your question. He is a voter and a concerned citizen. Donald Trump needs to answer that question. And he is failing miserably.

My question is not so much about DJT but an alternative candidate. Who on the stage would do a better job leading the country? As far as I’m concerned, I’m looking for suggestions.

DeSantis, Haley, Pence.
Don't know enough about Scott. Vivek is too inexperienced. Christie let bridge problems happen in NJ. The other two are clueless never-Trumpers.

I can see why someone that loves Bush and thinks he did a great job would say that about those 3....

They would do best for the party that is almost as out of touch with America as the progressives. They would tell you what you want to hear to get your vote and talk about it while President and talk and talk and talk. At the end of their term the "politicians" are doing nothing different

HW did a great job. W. did some really good things and failed miserably on some others.

(08-31-2023 02:56 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 09:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:49 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:14 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Instead of complaining about people supporting a candidate, how about offering a solution.

Something that would make anyone on that stage last week even remotely electable.

A solution to what, CJ? I’m not trying to be cute, here. I honestly don’t know what problem you are asking rath (and others) to solve for.

If the problem is how to win back the White House in 2024, then the solution is to do something different than was done in 2020. Is Donald Trump doing something different? If so, I’m not seeing it. All I am seeing is him re-litigating his total eff-up of the 2020 campaign, and in the process being dragged down (admittedly unfairly, but that’s mostly beside the point) by the ongoing political prosecutions and endless crying about it.

What different is he going to do? Ducking debates does nothing to advance the ball. Pointing out microscopic shortcomings in his opponents while ignoring gaping concerns with Donald’s fitness is politically suicidal.

rath doesn’t need to answer your question. He is a voter and a concerned citizen. Donald Trump needs to answer that question. And he is failing miserably.

My question is not so much about DJT but an alternative candidate. Who on the stage would do a better job leading the country? As far as I’m concerned, I’m looking for suggestions.

DeSantis, Haley, Pence.
Don't know enough about Scott. Vivek is too inexperienced. Christie let bridge problems happen in NJ. The other two are clueless never-Trumpers.

Pence would be a Democrat before his term was over. The question isn't who would do a better job as POTUS than Trump. It is who can get more votes? There will be a lot of people that will vote for Trump this time that voted for Joe last time. Remember Trump got over 12million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016. And who here remembers who the Democrat VP candidate was in 2016? Why is he no longer a viable candidate for the Democrats?

I remember he hit like 46% in 2016 and again in 2020 despite all the additional 12 million votes.

Donate to Cornell West and the Green Party and pray they help again in a handful of states that matter.

(08-31-2023 07:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 02:56 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 01:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 09:18 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 04:49 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  A solution to what, CJ? I’m not trying to be cute, here. I honestly don’t know what problem you are asking rath (and others) to solve for.

If the problem is how to win back the White House in 2024, then the solution is to do something different than was done in 2020. Is Donald Trump doing something different? If so, I’m not seeing it. All I am seeing is him re-litigating his total eff-up of the 2020 campaign, and in the process being dragged down (admittedly unfairly, but that’s mostly beside the point) by the ongoing political prosecutions and endless crying about it.

What different is he going to do? Ducking debates does nothing to advance the ball. Pointing out microscopic shortcomings in his opponents while ignoring gaping concerns with Donald’s fitness is politically suicidal.

rath doesn’t need to answer your question. He is a voter and a concerned citizen. Donald Trump needs to answer that question. And he is failing miserably.

My question is not so much about DJT but an alternative candidate. Who on the stage would do a better job leading the country? As far as I’m concerned, I’m looking for suggestions.

DeSantis, Haley, Pence.
Don't know enough about Scott. Vivek is too inexperienced. Christie let bridge problems happen in NJ. The other two are clueless never-Trumpers.

Pence would be a Democrat before his term was over. The question isn't who would do a better job as POTUS than Trump. It is who can get more votes? There will be a lot of people that will vote for Trump this time that voted for Joe last time. Remember Trump got over 12million more votes in 2020 than he did in 2016. And who here remembers who the Democrat VP candidate was in 2016? Why is he no longer a viable candidate for the Democrats?

Pence is very conservative and a fundamentalist. The Democrats would sooner burn him at the stake than let him in their party. NOW, he has been institutionalized like Red in Shawshank Redemption, so I won't vote for him, but he would do a decent job as president.

Pence is a weak sister and would tow the party line and not do anything to mess the part in his hair. He is the prototypical Republican "Conservative" politician. My district just voted out one of those in 2022. All hat no saddle. This country needs a ball breaker and Trump is the only one that will do It PERIOD I don't want a politician. I want a bulldozer. Somebody that will tell a terrorist organization leader, "If this agreement isn't adhered to I'm blowing your house up with you and your family in it". I want that guy.

(08-30-2023 03:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  This time Biden will have to run on his record instead of laying around and his handlers making everything about covid.

The chances that Republicans will be lucky enough to run against Biden in 2024 are close to PowerBall victory odds.

It will be Whitmer, Newsome, Buttigieg or (God forbid!) Warren. And the disaster that Joe Biden has wrought upon our nation will be barely ever mentioned.

AM, you're absolutely right that Biden* will NOT be the Democratic nominee. He either resigns around next April/May or will be impeached. I think he resigns.

Then Harris ascends to the Presidency and becomes the first female POTUS. But ONLY until 1/20/25. She will be told to not seek the Presidency; simply be a 7 month placeholder and retire with the Presidential (and Senate) pension + SS protection the rest of her life.

I believe Newsome is being groomed/prepared behind the scenes to be the Dem candidate. He will announce a few days after Biden* resigns and energize the Democrats at their convention next August. I think Michelle Obama will be his VP choice. That is probably already locked in and is an obvious 2 for 1 deal as Barack can then openly assist the Dem ticket.

It will be Trump vs. Newsome in 2024.

(08-31-2023 08:28 PM)boss man Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  This time Biden will have to run on his record instead of laying around and his handlers making everything about covid.

The chances that Republicans will be lucky enough to run against Biden in 2024 are close to PowerBall victory odds.

It will be Whitmer, Newsome, Buttigieg or (God forbid!) Warren. And the disaster that Joe Biden has wrought upon our nation will be barely ever mentioned.

AM, you're absolutely right that Biden* will NOT be the Democratic nominee. He either resigns around next April/May or will be impeached. I think he resigns.

Then Harris ascends to the Presidency and becomes the first female POTUS. But ONLY until 1/20/25. She will be told to not seek the Presidency; simply be a 7 month placeholder and retire with the Presidential (and Senate) pension + SS protection the rest of her life.

I believe Newsome is being groomed/prepared behind the scenes to be the Dem candidate. He will announce a few days after Biden* resigns and energize the Democrats at their convention next August. I think Michelle Obama will be his VP choice. That is probably already locked in and is an obvious 2 for 1 deal as Barack can then openly assist the Dem ticket.

It will be Trump vs. Newsome in 2024.

Michelle Obama ain't doing pshit. She is living the life of a queen with white liberals. It will be Newsome and Buttigeg.

(08-31-2023 08:28 PM)boss man Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:23 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-30-2023 03:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  This time Biden will have to run on his record instead of laying around and his handlers making everything about covid.

The chances that Republicans will be lucky enough to run against Biden in 2024 are close to PowerBall victory odds.

It will be Whitmer, Newsome, Buttigieg or (God forbid!) Warren. And the disaster that Joe Biden has wrought upon our nation will be barely ever mentioned.

AM, you're absolutely right that Biden* will NOT be the Democratic nominee. He either resigns around next April/May or will be impeached. I think he resigns.

Then Harris ascends to the Presidency and becomes the first female POTUS. But ONLY until 1/20/25. She will be told to not seek the Presidency; simply be a 7 month placeholder and retire with the Presidential (and Senate) pension + SS protection the rest of her life.

I believe Newsome is being groomed/prepared behind the scenes to be the Dem candidate. He will announce a few days after Biden* resigns and energize the Democrats at their convention next August. I think Michelle Obama will be his VP choice. That is probably already locked in and is an obvious 2 for 1 deal as Barack can then openly assist the Dem ticket.

It will be Trump vs. Newsome in 2024.

Yup. And just wait until the Trump's too old to be president attacks start. Lol. This country is fubared.

(08-31-2023 12:12 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(08-31-2023 11:53 AM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  OK. In your "opinion" who can get more than $74,200,000 votes?

You state that as if you think that Donald Trump is a lock to retain all of these 74,200,000 votes. Am I misunderstanding you on this? If so, please accept my apology.

But if I am understanding you correctly, then (and I'll try to say this gently) that is an example of Trumplet logic at its most dangerous.

There are certainly a large set (I don't think it is anywhere near as big as rath's 46%, so let's say 20%) who will vote for Donald Trump no matter what. He is a figure to be worshipped; never questioned. That gets him roughly 30mm locked voters.

Beyond that, there are people who admire Donald Trump for very sound reasons. His defeat of Hillary in 2016 is something that, in my view, saved America as a nation. His foreign policy approach is the strongest of any in my own lifetime (excepting the first 9 months of my life under Eisenhower). Although I really don't think it intentional, his Supreme Court choices are excellent. For many, that will be sufficient to support him, even if the rest of his performance was substandard. Another 20mm perhaps?

The rest will make a personal assessment regarding who is best for the nation. If the Democrats are stupid enough to stick with Biden (and I don't think they will), then it will be a very close election. Close enough that fraud will yet again be a factor. But if, as I presume they will, the Democrats go with a last-minute dark horse candidate, then Trump will be left to his own political skills and badly damaged reputation. In that scenario, he has next to no chance of repeating the 74.2mm figure.

Again, my opinion only.

That’s your opinion—-and it’s not unreasonable until you really think about what you’re saying. Even you recognize that a substantial portion of that 74 million voted for Trump because they are almost cult like in their loyalty.

So—what on earth makes you think any Republican candidate that attacks and defeats Trump is going to retain that 15 million Trump loyalist vote. Pretty sure those “cult” votes ere gone without Trump—and you then have a largely unknown candidate (that the press will almost surely demonize) running against an incumbent the press will portray as kindly old Uncle Joe from Scranton. We either win with Trump or we lose. It’s been obvious from the start that this primary season is more of a circular firing squad situation than the typical primary. Why? Because there is no option on the Republican side that is so popular he can win without the Trump loyalist vote—-and there is no way to beat Trump without losing that vote. But if you want to watch someone who is trying to thread that needle---its Vivek. Hes the only one who's gone all in on a strategy of trying to win without criticizing Trump---or losing the Trump loyalist vote----Which is how you get the odd situation where you have one primary candidate calling one of his competitors "the greatest president of this century".

The 74 million stuff misses one big point. 74 million wasn't enough to win in 2020 and won't be enough to win in 2024. Donald Trump has a very loyal following the will follow him through hell and high water and vote for him to the ends of the earth. But there aren't enough of them to win an election.

(08-31-2023 10:52 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The 74 million stuff misses one big point. 74 million wasn't enough to win in 2020 and won't be enough to win in 2024. Donald Trump has a very loyal following the will follow him through hell and high water and vote for him to the ends of the earth. But there aren't enough of them to win an election.

Nope---but it was close. Two things are different. One---Indy's that went for Biden in 2020 are each going to vote their pocketbook---which means they not only add one vote to Trumps ledger---they take 1 vote away from Joe's 81 million. The second factor is hopefully Republicans will build a mail in/ballot harvesting operation at least 50% as effective as the Democrat machine.

This is the same firm Trump hired in 2020 to counter all the “fake” polls. No surprise Newsmax is riding their jock. This will be one of the “facts” presented when Trump loses again.

(09-01-2023 01:16 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  This is the same firm Trump hired in 2020 to counter all the “fake” polls. No surprise Newsmax is riding their jock. This will be one of the “facts” presented when Trump loses again.

A liberal talking about “facts?”

(09-01-2023 12:42 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 01:16 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  This is the same firm Trump hired in 2020 to counter all the “fake” polls. No surprise Newsmax is riding their jock. This will be one of the “facts” presented when Trump loses again.

A liberal talking about “facts?”

And a conservative dodging the point… again. .

Fact: McLaughlin polls are right 70% of the time.

(09-01-2023 02:25 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 12:42 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 01:16 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  This is the same firm Trump hired in 2020 to counter all the “fake” polls. No surprise Newsmax is riding their jock. This will be one of the “facts” presented when Trump loses again.

A liberal talking about “facts?”

And a conservative dodging the point… again. .

Fact: McLaughlin polls are right 70% of the time.

And liberals are wrong 99% of the time. Then they have to lie and cheat to get their way.

(09-01-2023 03:28 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 02:25 PM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 12:42 PM)450bench Wrote:  

(09-01-2023 01:16 AM)Mr_XcentricK Wrote:  This is the same firm Trump hired in 2020 to counter all the “fake” polls. No surprise Newsmax is riding their jock. This will be one of the “facts” presented when Trump loses again.

A liberal talking about “facts?”

And a conservative dodging the point… again. .

Fact: McLaughlin polls are right 70% of the time.

And liberals are wrong 99% of the time. Then they have to lie and cheat to get their way.

Dodge dodge dodge.