The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-08-2024 02:43 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Our admin compensation seems rather high... too high....

Based on what? Seems to me it's fairly inline with our peers:

JMU $9 million
ECU $9 million
Buffalo $8.75 million
North Texas $7.7 million
ODU $ 6.6 million
UMass $6.4 million
Louisiana $6.4 million
Georgia Southern $6.2 million

(01-08-2024 02:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:43 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Our admin compensation seems rather high... too high....

Based on what? Seems to me it's fairly inline with our peers:

JMU $9 million
ECU $9 million
Buffalo $8.75 million
North Texas $7.7 million
ODU $ 6.6 million
UMass $6.4 million
Louisiana $6.4 million
Georgia Southern $6.2 million

Based on wanting something to complain about before checking to see what the peer schools paid.

Rally goes out of his way to find something to complain about.
He is searching out giant issues and finding only windmills.

(01-08-2024 02:54 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:43 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Our admin compensation seems rather high... too high....

Based on what? Seems to me it's fairly inline with our peers:

JMU $9 million
ECU $9 million
Buffalo $8.75 million
North Texas $7.7 million
ODU $ 6.6 million
UMass $6.4 million
Louisiana $6.4 million
Georgia Southern $6.2 million

Based on wanting something to complain about before checking to see what the peer schools paid.

And most of those schools you mentioned have had winnings seasons in football and/or mens basketball recently (within 5 years).

(01-08-2024 03:17 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Rally goes out of his way to find something to complain about.
He is searching out giant issues and finding only windmills.

Our results in our top 2 money driving sports speak for themselves, especially the last 5-10 years.

(01-08-2024 03:31 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:54 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:43 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Our admin compensation seems rather high... too high....

Based on what? Seems to me it's fairly inline with our peers:

JMU $9 million
ECU $9 million
Buffalo $8.75 million
North Texas $7.7 million
ODU $ 6.6 million
UMass $6.4 million
Louisiana $6.4 million
Georgia Southern $6.2 million

Based on wanting something to complain about before checking to see what the peer schools paid.

And most of those schools you mentioned have had winnings seasons in football and/or mens basketball recently (within 5 years).

....so have we?

(01-09-2024 09:09 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 03:31 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:54 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:43 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Our admin compensation seems rather high... too high....

Based on what? Seems to me it's fairly inline with our peers:

JMU $9 million
ECU $9 million
Buffalo $8.75 million
North Texas $7.7 million
ODU $ 6.6 million
UMass $6.4 million
Louisiana $6.4 million
Georgia Southern $6.2 million

Based on wanting something to complain about before checking to see what the peer schools paid.

And most of those schools you mentioned have had winnings seasons in football and/or mens basketball recently (within 5 years).

....so have we?

Not in football we havent. And hoops we have had 3, but its much easier to have a winning record in hoops and not accomplish anything with it. We have had 1 NCAA appearance in the last 10 years.

(01-09-2024 09:50 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:09 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 03:31 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:54 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:53 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Based on what? Seems to me it's fairly inline with our peers:

JMU $9 million
ECU $9 million
Buffalo $8.75 million
North Texas $7.7 million
ODU $ 6.6 million
UMass $6.4 million
Louisiana $6.4 million
Georgia Southern $6.2 million

Based on wanting something to complain about before checking to see what the peer schools paid.

And most of those schools you mentioned have had winnings seasons in football and/or mens basketball recently (within 5 years).

....so have we?

Not in football we havent. And hoops we have had 3, but its much easier to have a winning record in hoops and not accomplish anything with it. We have had 1 NCAA appearance in the last 10 years.

Hey look - Rally moving the goalposts again (ones that he put in place with his original comment). This is why you aren't taken seriously.

(01-09-2024 10:52 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:50 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:09 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 03:31 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 02:54 PM)Stat Geek Wrote:  Based on wanting something to complain about before checking to see what the peer schools paid.

And most of those schools you mentioned have had winnings seasons in football and/or mens basketball recently (within 5 years).

....so have we?

Not in football we havent. And hoops we have had 3, but its much easier to have a winning record in hoops and not accomplish anything with it. We have had 1 NCAA appearance in the last 10 years.

Hey look - Rally moving the goalposts again (ones that he put in place with his original comment). This is why you aren't taken seriously.

Yes, lets celebrate a winning season where we don't qualify for any tournament, or do not advance very far in our conference tournament. Our admin is way overpriced for the results we have been getting with our products.

YOURE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP WINNING SEASONS IN FOOTBALL "AND/OR" BASKETBALL AS A METRIC OF COMPARISON FOR SUCCESS. STOP BEING OBTUSE.

(01-09-2024 11:08 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 10:52 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:50 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:09 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-08-2024 03:31 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  And most of those schools you mentioned have had winnings seasons in football and/or mens basketball recently (within 5 years).

....so have we?

Not in football we havent. And hoops we have had 3, but its much easier to have a winning record in hoops and not accomplish anything with it. We have had 1 NCAA appearance in the last 10 years.

Hey look - Rally moving the goalposts again (ones that he put in place with his original comment). This is why you aren't taken seriously.

Yes, lets celebrate a winning season where we don't qualify for any tournament, or do not advance very far in our conference tournament. Our admin is way overpriced for the results we have been getting with our products.

You do realize administrative expenses covers more than just admin salaries, right? On top of that, administrative expenses are mostly viewed in the budgeting world as unavoidable fixed costs and trying to gauge whether it is "overpriced" without looking at the G/L or using all comparable institutions to create a basis is a fool's errand.

(01-09-2024 11:20 AM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:08 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 10:52 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:50 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:09 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  ....so have we?

Not in football we havent. And hoops we have had 3, but its much easier to have a winning record in hoops and not accomplish anything with it. We have had 1 NCAA appearance in the last 10 years.

Hey look - Rally moving the goalposts again (ones that he put in place with his original comment). This is why you aren't taken seriously.

Yes, lets celebrate a winning season where we don't qualify for any tournament, or do not advance very far in our conference tournament. Our admin is way overpriced for the results we have been getting with our products.

You do realize administrative expenses covers more than just admin salaries, right? On top of that, administrative expenses are mostly viewed in the budgeting world as unavoidable fixed costs and trying to gauge whether it is "overpriced" without looking at the G/L or using all comparable institutions to create a basis is a fool's errand.

I get that our numbers are in line with our competitors. But I question if we are truly getting bang for our buck here. So, if it is more than just salaries, what else does it cover?

(01-09-2024 11:41 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:20 AM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:08 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 10:52 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 09:50 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Not in football we havent. And hoops we have had 3, but its much easier to have a winning record in hoops and not accomplish anything with it. We have had 1 NCAA appearance in the last 10 years.

Hey look - Rally moving the goalposts again (ones that he put in place with his original comment). This is why you aren't taken seriously.

Yes, lets celebrate a winning season where we don't qualify for any tournament, or do not advance very far in our conference tournament. Our admin is way overpriced for the results we have been getting with our products.

You do realize administrative expenses covers more than just admin salaries, right? On top of that, administrative expenses are mostly viewed in the budgeting world as unavoidable fixed costs and trying to gauge whether it is "overpriced" without looking at the G/L or using all comparable institutions to create a basis is a fool's errand.

I get that our numbers are in line with our competitors. But I question if we are truly getting bang for our buck here. So, if it is more than just salaries, what else does it cover?

Administrative compensation would include salaries and benefits for the following groups at ODU (and others possibly, hard to know without looking at payroll or G/L):
Athletic director and assistant athletic directors
ODAF staff
Sports Information staff
Office staff
Facilities staff
Gameday production staff
ODU sports properties staff
IT/IS staff
Athletic Trainers
Academic support staff

Basically, it's a pretty damn big bucket of staff.

If there was a category you were going to target to ask questions about, it should be athletic student aid as evidenced below:

James Madison 10,325,681
Old Dominion 9,944,306
Coastal Carolina 9,801,777
Georgia State 8,435,368
Marshall 7,958,777
Louisiana, Lafayette 7,887,261
Arkansas State 7,149,603
South Alabama 6,997,986
Texas State 6,759,349
Georgia Southern 6,660,199
Troy 6,239,098
Southern Mississippi 6,081,668
App State 5,845,032
Louisiana, Monroe 5,713,166

The average for the Sun Belt is $7.6m. We are spending $2.2m or 32% more than the average Sun Belt school on student aid, why?

http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/OldD...AA2022.pdf

and JMU for comparison:

http://www.apa.virginia.gov/reports/Jame...AA2022.pdf

(01-09-2024 12:21 PM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:41 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:20 AM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 11:08 AM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 10:52 AM)MonarchManiac Wrote:  Hey look - Rally moving the goalposts again (ones that he put in place with his original comment). This is why you aren't taken seriously.

Yes, lets celebrate a winning season where we don't qualify for any tournament, or do not advance very far in our conference tournament. Our admin is way overpriced for the results we have been getting with our products.

You do realize administrative expenses covers more than just admin salaries, right? On top of that, administrative expenses are mostly viewed in the budgeting world as unavoidable fixed costs and trying to gauge whether it is "overpriced" without looking at the G/L or using all comparable institutions to create a basis is a fool's errand.

I get that our numbers are in line with our competitors. But I question if we are truly getting bang for our buck here. So, if it is more than just salaries, what else does it cover?

Administrative compensation would include salaries and benefits for the following groups at ODU (and others possibly, hard to know without looking at payroll or G/L):
Athletic director and assistant athletic directors
ODAF staff
Sports Information staff
Office staff
Facilities staff
Gameday production staff
ODU sports properties staff
IT/IS staff
Athletic Trainers
Academic support staff

Basically, it's a pretty damn big bucket of staff.

If there was a category you were going to target to ask questions about, it should be athletic student aid as evidenced below:

James Madison 10,325,681
Old Dominion 9,944,306
Coastal Carolina 9,801,777
Georgia State 8,435,368
Marshall 7,958,777
Louisiana, Lafayette 7,887,261
Arkansas State 7,149,603
South Alabama 6,997,986
Texas State 6,759,349
Georgia Southern 6,660,199
Troy 6,239,098
Southern Mississippi 6,081,668
App State 5,845,032
Louisiana, Monroe 5,713,166

The average for the Sun Belt is $7.6m. We are spending $2.2m or 32% more than the average Sun Belt school on student aid, why?

Does this have anything to do with having more out of state student athletes in the programs? There must be a correlation here between ODU/JMU being the highest among the rest of the SBC.

# of programs supported with schollys? How do we compare with others in our conference with sports sponsored

I know I read somewhere on here a while back that at least one school allows athletes to pay in state tuition, regardless where they came from.
Wonder if our admins have looked into that?

(01-09-2024 12:30 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Does this have anything to do with having more out of state student athletes in the programs? There must be a correlation here between ODU/JMU being the highest among the rest of the SBC.

(01-09-2024 12:35 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  # of programs supported with schollys? How do we compare with others in our conference with sports sponsored

I know I read somewhere on here a while back that at least one school allows athletes to pay in state tuition, regardless where they came from.
Wonder if our admins have looked into that?

Virginia law requires all athletic scholarships to be based on where the athlete is from. So out of state and international students scholarship bills are billed at the out of state and international rates.

A lot of Sun Belt schools allow them to all be paid as in state students. Obviously, UVA and VT could care less about this issue given their amazing TV deals and corporate or fan support. But it's a law programs like ODU and JMU should seek to change to gain more financial flexibility.

Imagine what we could do with an additional $2m to play with.

(01-09-2024 02:43 PM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:30 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Does this have anything to do with having more out of state student athletes in the programs? There must be a correlation here between ODU/JMU being the highest among the rest of the SBC.

(01-09-2024 12:35 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  # of programs supported with schollys? How do we compare with others in our conference with sports sponsored

I know I read somewhere on here a while back that at least one school allows athletes to pay in state tuition, regardless where they came from.
Wonder if our admins have looked into that?

Virginia law requires all athletic scholarships to be based on where the athlete is from. So out of state and international students scholarship bills are billed at the out of state and international rates.

A lot of Sun Belt schools allow them to all be paid as in state students. Obviously, UVA and VT could care less about this issue given their amazing TV deals and corporate or fan support. But it's a law programs like ODU and JMU should seek to change to gain more financial flexibility.

Imagine what we could do with an additional $2m to play with.

You wouldn't think this would be that big of a deal to change. I hope the legislature would want all state programs to be as successful as possible and compete on an even playing field with their conference peers at least. But maybe I give them too much credit. This is one area where I think JMU being in our conference could help us. ODU and Hampton Roads have next to no meaningful representation in the state legislature, whereas JMU has actual supporters. And whatever is passed to help them, should help us as well. Im kind surprised they haven't gotten Cox to repeal the anti-ODU bill yet now that they're FBS too.

(01-09-2024 02:43 PM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  

(01-09-2024 12:30 PM)ODURallyFox Wrote:  Does this have anything to do with having more out of state student athletes in the programs? There must be a correlation here between ODU/JMU being the highest among the rest of the SBC.

(01-09-2024 12:35 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  # of programs supported with schollys? How do we compare with others in our conference with sports sponsored

I know I read somewhere on here a while back that at least one school allows athletes to pay in state tuition, regardless where they came from.
Wonder if our admins have looked into that?

Virginia law requires all athletic scholarships to be based on where the athlete is from. So out of state and international students scholarship bills are billed at the out of state and international rates.

A lot of Sun Belt schools allow them to all be paid as in state students. Obviously, UVA and VT could care less about this issue given their amazing TV deals and corporate or fan support. But it's a law programs like ODU and JMU should seek to change to gain more financial flexibility.

Imagine what we could do with an additional $2m to play with.

I agree. The state seems to never cut its schools any breaks, especially ODU.

By chance, do we have numbers for Liberty to compare as well?

Ask our JMU buds with a lawyer who seems to care to get it changed for JMU and we enjoy that benefit as well. =]