(02-05-2024 12:19 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 11:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 11:06 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 10:24 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 09:36 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  Florida State's CCG had a huge impact on the CFP, and that game was still dead last in the P5 this year. What's your excuse for that? And, sure, it makes sense that more people would be enthusiastic about watching a game with CFP implications, but 6.1m total viewers combined from 21 and 22, ie, a 3.05m avg? Come on, man, you can't shine up that turd.

Simple. Texas > FSU

But what about last year when TCU-K St pulled in 9.41m eyeballs? Or a couple years ago when Baylor-OK St pulled in over 8m? Are TCU, Baylor, Ok St and KSt also > FSU and the rest of the ACC? The Big 12 CCG consistently pulls in 8-9m eyeballs, and I'd wager that it will in 2024, too, whether it's OK St vs Utah or UCF vs Texas Tech. The ACC pulls in 7m eyeballs in a really good year, and 3m in a year with not much at stake (even with it's UNC vs Clemson!!).

3 TCU vs 10 K State and 5 OK State vs 9 Baylor all had playoff implications so they are getting fans of other teams watching as well. What time were the games on?

Neither of those games drew 70k in actual attendance BTW

And the ACC drew 57k in 2021, 64 k in 2022 and 62k in 2023. FSU's game had playoff implications as did every ACC CCG from 2014-2020.

And my argument is the ratings of the ACC and Big XII CCGs will be a lot closer going forward without Texas and Oklahoma in the Big XII and the ACC scrapping divisions.

(02-05-2024 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 09:21 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 04:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 03:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Texas finished unranked 6 of the 9 years of Sic em 365's study (2013-2021), and finished #19 and #25 in 2 of the remaining 3 years.

It wasn't Sic em 365's study that was flawed. All that means is that Texas in its worst performing decade plummeted to #16 due to having their worst decade when that study was conducted. So we can take Sic 'em 365's study and conclude that "Texas' floor in an absolute doomsday scenario is #16, but their brand value when performing to their standards is much higher".

Like I said, I have no quarrel with Sice-em's numbers, I assume they are correct.

IMO, it just means that the TV numbers presented by Sice-em don't necessarily reflect brand value, because to me Texas is easily a top 3 brand, probably the #1 brand in the country, over the entire time of the Sic-em study, whether their TV numbers were at the top or not.

That IMO is why the SEC wanted Texas in 2021, and had no interest in other schools that may have been ahead of them in the Sic-em rankings.

You have to look closely at the conference numbers to see why the Big 12 schools look so bad. They had 52 rated games rather than the 21 of the ACC. If you take only the top 21 for OUT and Ok st, OU is at ~ 5.3m avg and Texas and Ok St are ~ 4.3m avg. The SEC numbers are inflated b/c we only have 18 games (thanks Vandy), while the B1G numbers are low b/c they have 27. Fortunately, it's easy to directly compare higher-drawing schools directly by looking at the graph, it shows the avg as it changes per game. ie, Texas' numbers don't fall off that much from 21 to 52, their avg falls from about 4.3m to 3m, Ok St's numbers drop off a bit more by game 52, down to ~ 2.7m. And, since I have to compare my Aggies constantly and in all things to Texas, we are both at ~ 3.5m avg for our top 40 games from that time period.

One of the reasons I like that data so much is that it helps to demonstrate why a program like Miami that has fallen on (relatively) hard times can still produce some serious ratings, and it also shows that a supposedly less-desirable program like Ok St is perhaps not quite as undesirable to media execs as many of us supposed, and far more desirable than the rest of the Big 12(16).

To me, once again relying on my own intuition and not data ... Miami in my view still has big brand potential because CFB fans of a certain age, basically 40 or older, remember when the Canes dominated football in the 1980s and in to the early 1990s. Not only did they win titles, they did it in a flashy, era-defining way that transcended college football. That has echoed down the years and still resonates with many of us, periodically revived by things like the brief time at the top in the early 2000s, the ESPN documentary on "The U" that was very popular, etc.

As for OK State, they have been a great performer, frequently ranked, in both football and hoops. That I guess is why their ratings are good - ranked teams are always of viewer interest. But that said, I've never seen any inkling from the SEC, much less the B1G, or when it was a power, the PAC, in Oklahoma State. If anything, they have always been described as the "little brother" that Oklahoma politics would want to tagalong with OU, and of course that didn't happen in 2021. So IMO, despite these numbers, I'll believe OK State has value to a better conference when I see it, so to speak.

IMO, among the nB12, schools like the PAC flagships recently added are all much more likely to eventually end up in the B1G or SEC than OK State. Ditto for Kansas. Maybe we'll see.

It takes a long time to lose a brand. Miami hasn't lost it. Nebraska hasn't lost it. Both outperform their records in TV ratings and generate lots of interest when they win. On the other hand, Minnesota, who was a power from the 30s to 60s, has lost its brand. Schools that generate views from winning but haven't built up a brand, like Boise St., can disappear pretty quickly.

I agree that brands tend to persist and it takes a long time to lose one. Also IMO it takes a long time to build one. Regarding the specific schools, IMO both Nebraska and Miami have seen their brands diminish somewhat. They still have them but they aren't what they were 20 years ago. The lack of titles has taken a toll, at least somewhat, IMO. On the other hand, Notre Dame has lost barely any brand luster at all, if at all, despite not having won a title for many years longer than Miami or Nebraska have. The Irish are just different, I guess.

(02-06-2024 07:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 09:21 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 04:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Like I said, I have no quarrel with Sice-em's numbers, I assume they are correct.

IMO, it just means that the TV numbers presented by Sice-em don't necessarily reflect brand value, because to me Texas is easily a top 3 brand, probably the #1 brand in the country, over the entire time of the Sic-em study, whether their TV numbers were at the top or not.

That IMO is why the SEC wanted Texas in 2021, and had no interest in other schools that may have been ahead of them in the Sic-em rankings.

You have to look closely at the conference numbers to see why the Big 12 schools look so bad. They had 52 rated games rather than the 21 of the ACC. If you take only the top 21 for OUT and Ok st, OU is at ~ 5.3m avg and Texas and Ok St are ~ 4.3m avg. The SEC numbers are inflated b/c we only have 18 games (thanks Vandy), while the B1G numbers are low b/c they have 27. Fortunately, it's easy to directly compare higher-drawing schools directly by looking at the graph, it shows the avg as it changes per game. ie, Texas' numbers don't fall off that much from 21 to 52, their avg falls from about 4.3m to 3m, Ok St's numbers drop off a bit more by game 52, down to ~ 2.7m. And, since I have to compare my Aggies constantly and in all things to Texas, we are both at ~ 3.5m avg for our top 40 games from that time period.

One of the reasons I like that data so much is that it helps to demonstrate why a program like Miami that has fallen on (relatively) hard times can still produce some serious ratings, and it also shows that a supposedly less-desirable program like Ok St is perhaps not quite as undesirable to media execs as many of us supposed, and far more desirable than the rest of the Big 12(16).

To me, once again relying on my own intuition and not data ... Miami in my view still has big brand potential because CFB fans of a certain age, basically 40 or older, remember when the Canes dominated football in the 1980s and in to the early 1990s. Not only did they win titles, they did it in a flashy, era-defining way that transcended college football. That has echoed down the years and still resonates with many of us, periodically revived by things like the brief time at the top in the early 2000s, the ESPN documentary on "The U" that was very popular, etc.

As for OK State, they have been a great performer, frequently ranked, in both football and hoops. That I guess is why their ratings are good - ranked teams are always of viewer interest. But that said, I've never seen any inkling from the SEC, much less the B1G, or when it was a power, the PAC, in Oklahoma State. If anything, they have always been described as the "little brother" that Oklahoma politics would want to tagalong with OU, and of course that didn't happen in 2021. So IMO, despite these numbers, I'll believe OK State has value to a better conference when I see it, so to speak.

IMO, among the nB12, schools like the PAC flagships recently added are all much more likely to eventually end up in the B1G or SEC than OK State. Ditto for Kansas. Maybe we'll see.

It takes a long time to lose a brand. Miami hasn't lost it. Nebraska hasn't lost it. Both outperform their records in TV ratings and generate lots of interest when they win. On the other hand, Minnesota, who was a power from the 30s to 60s, has lost its brand. Schools that generate views from winning but haven't built up a brand, like Boise St., can disappear pretty quickly.

I agree that brands tend to persist and it takes a long time to lose one. Also IMO it takes a long time to build one. Regarding the specific schools, IMO both Nebraska and Miami have seen their brands diminish somewhat. They still have them but they aren't what they were 20 years ago. The lack of titles has taken a toll, at least somewhat, IMO. On the other hand, Notre Dame has lost barely any brand luster at all, if at all, despite not having won a title for many years longer than Miami or Nebraska have. The Irish are just different, I guess.

Notre Dame has a built in cult following.
Where ever you find transplanted mid-western Catholics you will find Notre Dame fans.

(02-06-2024 08:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-06-2024 07:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 09:21 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  You have to look closely at the conference numbers to see why the Big 12 schools look so bad. They had 52 rated games rather than the 21 of the ACC. If you take only the top 21 for OUT and Ok st, OU is at ~ 5.3m avg and Texas and Ok St are ~ 4.3m avg. The SEC numbers are inflated b/c we only have 18 games (thanks Vandy), while the B1G numbers are low b/c they have 27. Fortunately, it's easy to directly compare higher-drawing schools directly by looking at the graph, it shows the avg as it changes per game. ie, Texas' numbers don't fall off that much from 21 to 52, their avg falls from about 4.3m to 3m, Ok St's numbers drop off a bit more by game 52, down to ~ 2.7m. And, since I have to compare my Aggies constantly and in all things to Texas, we are both at ~ 3.5m avg for our top 40 games from that time period.

One of the reasons I like that data so much is that it helps to demonstrate why a program like Miami that has fallen on (relatively) hard times can still produce some serious ratings, and it also shows that a supposedly less-desirable program like Ok St is perhaps not quite as undesirable to media execs as many of us supposed, and far more desirable than the rest of the Big 12(16).

To me, once again relying on my own intuition and not data ... Miami in my view still has big brand potential because CFB fans of a certain age, basically 40 or older, remember when the Canes dominated football in the 1980s and in to the early 1990s. Not only did they win titles, they did it in a flashy, era-defining way that transcended college football. That has echoed down the years and still resonates with many of us, periodically revived by things like the brief time at the top in the early 2000s, the ESPN documentary on "The U" that was very popular, etc.

As for OK State, they have been a great performer, frequently ranked, in both football and hoops. That I guess is why their ratings are good - ranked teams are always of viewer interest. But that said, I've never seen any inkling from the SEC, much less the B1G, or when it was a power, the PAC, in Oklahoma State. If anything, they have always been described as the "little brother" that Oklahoma politics would want to tagalong with OU, and of course that didn't happen in 2021. So IMO, despite these numbers, I'll believe OK State has value to a better conference when I see it, so to speak.

IMO, among the nB12, schools like the PAC flagships recently added are all much more likely to eventually end up in the B1G or SEC than OK State. Ditto for Kansas. Maybe we'll see.

It takes a long time to lose a brand. Miami hasn't lost it. Nebraska hasn't lost it. Both outperform their records in TV ratings and generate lots of interest when they win. On the other hand, Minnesota, who was a power from the 30s to 60s, has lost its brand. Schools that generate views from winning but haven't built up a brand, like Boise St., can disappear pretty quickly.

I agree that brands tend to persist and it takes a long time to lose one. Also IMO it takes a long time to build one. Regarding the specific schools, IMO both Nebraska and Miami have seen their brands diminish somewhat. They still have them but they aren't what they were 20 years ago. The lack of titles has taken a toll, at least somewhat, IMO. On the other hand, Notre Dame has lost barely any brand luster at all, if at all, despite not having won a title for many years longer than Miami or Nebraska have. The Irish are just different, I guess.

Notre Dame has a built in cult following.
Where ever you find transplanted mid-western Catholics you will find Notre Dame fans.

Or Northeastern Catholics, or Western Catholics, or Southwestern Catholics, atheists of Irish descent and even non-Catholic, non-Irish-Americans who just like the school and its sports programs.

After 100 plus years of being fans, the idea of ND fandom is now passed down from generation to generation in families. My own extended family is now on its fifth generation of ND fans.

I have read and heard other fans say for years that "wait until the old ND fans die off". The people saying that are clueless and unaware that it doesn't really matter as Irish fandom is passed down to the younger generations by the older ones.

It is now more of a tradition, a family thing, as opposed to a straight religious one. This will continue forward into the future.

(02-06-2024 08:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-06-2024 07:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-04-2024 09:21 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  You have to look closely at the conference numbers to see why the Big 12 schools look so bad. They had 52 rated games rather than the 21 of the ACC. If you take only the top 21 for OUT and Ok st, OU is at ~ 5.3m avg and Texas and Ok St are ~ 4.3m avg. The SEC numbers are inflated b/c we only have 18 games (thanks Vandy), while the B1G numbers are low b/c they have 27. Fortunately, it's easy to directly compare higher-drawing schools directly by looking at the graph, it shows the avg as it changes per game. ie, Texas' numbers don't fall off that much from 21 to 52, their avg falls from about 4.3m to 3m, Ok St's numbers drop off a bit more by game 52, down to ~ 2.7m. And, since I have to compare my Aggies constantly and in all things to Texas, we are both at ~ 3.5m avg for our top 40 games from that time period.

One of the reasons I like that data so much is that it helps to demonstrate why a program like Miami that has fallen on (relatively) hard times can still produce some serious ratings, and it also shows that a supposedly less-desirable program like Ok St is perhaps not quite as undesirable to media execs as many of us supposed, and far more desirable than the rest of the Big 12(16).

To me, once again relying on my own intuition and not data ... Miami in my view still has big brand potential because CFB fans of a certain age, basically 40 or older, remember when the Canes dominated football in the 1980s and in to the early 1990s. Not only did they win titles, they did it in a flashy, era-defining way that transcended college football. That has echoed down the years and still resonates with many of us, periodically revived by things like the brief time at the top in the early 2000s, the ESPN documentary on "The U" that was very popular, etc.

As for OK State, they have been a great performer, frequently ranked, in both football and hoops. That I guess is why their ratings are good - ranked teams are always of viewer interest. But that said, I've never seen any inkling from the SEC, much less the B1G, or when it was a power, the PAC, in Oklahoma State. If anything, they have always been described as the "little brother" that Oklahoma politics would want to tagalong with OU, and of course that didn't happen in 2021. So IMO, despite these numbers, I'll believe OK State has value to a better conference when I see it, so to speak.

IMO, among the nB12, schools like the PAC flagships recently added are all much more likely to eventually end up in the B1G or SEC than OK State. Ditto for Kansas. Maybe we'll see.

It takes a long time to lose a brand. Miami hasn't lost it. Nebraska hasn't lost it. Both outperform their records in TV ratings and generate lots of interest when they win. On the other hand, Minnesota, who was a power from the 30s to 60s, has lost its brand. Schools that generate views from winning but haven't built up a brand, like Boise St., can disappear pretty quickly.

I agree that brands tend to persist and it takes a long time to lose one. Also IMO it takes a long time to build one. Regarding the specific schools, IMO both Nebraska and Miami have seen their brands diminish somewhat. They still have them but they aren't what they were 20 years ago. The lack of titles has taken a toll, at least somewhat, IMO. On the other hand, Notre Dame has lost barely any brand luster at all, if at all, despite not having won a title for many years longer than Miami or Nebraska have. The Irish are just different, I guess.

Notre Dame has a built in cult following.
Where ever you find transplanted mid-western Catholics you will find Notre Dame fans.

I think its more Irish than Catholic (of course almost all Irish are Catholic). And there are a lot of people descended from the Irish in America.

(02-06-2024 08:45 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-06-2024 08:00 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(02-06-2024 07:32 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 10:13 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2024 09:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  To me, once again relying on my own intuition and not data ... Miami in my view still has big brand potential because CFB fans of a certain age, basically 40 or older, remember when the Canes dominated football in the 1980s and in to the early 1990s. Not only did they win titles, they did it in a flashy, era-defining way that transcended college football. That has echoed down the years and still resonates with many of us, periodically revived by things like the brief time at the top in the early 2000s, the ESPN documentary on "The U" that was very popular, etc.

As for OK State, they have been a great performer, frequently ranked, in both football and hoops. That I guess is why their ratings are good - ranked teams are always of viewer interest. But that said, I've never seen any inkling from the SEC, much less the B1G, or when it was a power, the PAC, in Oklahoma State. If anything, they have always been described as the "little brother" that Oklahoma politics would want to tagalong with OU, and of course that didn't happen in 2021. So IMO, despite these numbers, I'll believe OK State has value to a better conference when I see it, so to speak.

IMO, among the nB12, schools like the PAC flagships recently added are all much more likely to eventually end up in the B1G or SEC than OK State. Ditto for Kansas. Maybe we'll see.

It takes a long time to lose a brand. Miami hasn't lost it. Nebraska hasn't lost it. Both outperform their records in TV ratings and generate lots of interest when they win. On the other hand, Minnesota, who was a power from the 30s to 60s, has lost its brand. Schools that generate views from winning but haven't built up a brand, like Boise St., can disappear pretty quickly.

I agree that brands tend to persist and it takes a long time to lose one. Also IMO it takes a long time to build one. Regarding the specific schools, IMO both Nebraska and Miami have seen their brands diminish somewhat. They still have them but they aren't what they were 20 years ago. The lack of titles has taken a toll, at least somewhat, IMO. On the other hand, Notre Dame has lost barely any brand luster at all, if at all, despite not having won a title for many years longer than Miami or Nebraska have. The Irish are just different, I guess.

Notre Dame has a built in cult following.
Where ever you find transplanted mid-western Catholics you will find Notre Dame fans.

Or Northeastern Catholics, or Western Catholics, or Southwestern Catholics, atheists of Irish descent and even non-Catholic, non-Irish-Americans who just like the school and its sports programs.

After 100 plus years of being fans, the idea of ND fandom is now passed down from generation to generation in families. My own extended family is now on its fifth generation of ND fans.

I have read and heard other fans say for years that "wait until the old ND fans die off". The people saying that are clueless and unaware that it doesn't really matter as Irish fandom is passed down to the younger generations by the older ones.

It is now more of a tradition, a family thing, as opposed to a straight religious one. This will continue forward into the future.

That's how it was for me - I have never stepped foot on the ND campus (bucket list for me, but hasn't happened yet), but have been a fan for over 50 years, because I learned that on my dad's knee, a Catholic (not a drop of Irish in us, btw) from Illinois.