(03-04-2024 10:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:38 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:01 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:47 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, a weakened ACC would essentially have zero impact on the economy of the state of North Carolina.

I agree that the four state ACC schools are important economic engines for the state, but IMO if suddenly three of them were to move to the Sun Belt conference this again would have basically no impact on the state economy. The link between what athletic conference a school plays in on that is IMO vanishingly small. Regardless of conference, NC State will still do all the research and hospital work it currently does, and Duke and Wake Forest will remain elite and quasi-elite private universities.

So IMO, this move, and the recent sabre-rattling by legislators and the governor about wanting UNC and NCST in the same conference is probably 99% about protecting NC State.

Plus, even if I am wrong about the above, IMO it is a futile effort anyway. If FSU and Clemson and Miami were to leave, the ACC, already demoted to an M2 conference, would likely slip into quasi-G league territory anyway even if UNC were to remain.

So again, IMO this is another shot fired across the bow about protecting NC State.

You missed the point.

Eh, you seemed to emphasize the importance to the BOG powers of keeping the state economy whole. So I addressed, or tried to address, that aspect of that - IMO there is nothing significant about the state economy that depends on whether NC State, Duke and WF are in a "power" athletic conference or not.

Which takes me then back to ... protecting NC State.

Just MO.

It's about the interconnectivity of business, academics and government. The point is that the BOG aren't just thinking about football. They are thinking about the state economy and how it can best serve their and the taxpayers interests. An increased athletic department budget for UNCCH is small potatoes in the grand scheme. Sure they want to go back to their hometowns and say, "Go Pack", or "I bleed Carolina Blue". But that's just theatrics. They actually want to meet with the CEOs of food distribution businesses, hotel chains, transportation services, local government officals etc. and say we've got 42 events locked up over the next 2 years that will mean profits, jobs, and opportunities to your community. And we can expect this to continue into the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I agree that there is interconnectivity between business, academic and government. I just don't think those connections depend on whether the state of North Carolina has four schools in an athletically "power" ACC or not. I agree that the B1G or SEC increase for UNC athletics is small potatoes, but I also think that the decline in money for the athletic budgets of NCST, WF and Duke (should UNC leave the ACC and the ACC drop down to G-level) is small potatoes as well.

IMO, regardless of what conferences those schools are in, they will still play their same roles academically and in terms of partnering with businesses and government. The universities aren't going anywhere even if their athletics are diminished in a rump ACC or a move to the Sun Belt. I don't believe profits or jobs to any appreciable degree depend on that. IMO the NC economy would not "notice" in a big picture sense, any appreciable impact from the loss of things like the laundry list of ACC championships that are to be held in the conference. The vast majority of those lose money and very few people travel for them, I think, not enough to matter to the state economy.

A tell for me about that is why would the other members of the ACC agree to have the ACC sign a deal for a paltry $15m subsidy from NC if it means all those valuable conference events are in NC? If those events brought in a lot of travel money for hotels, restaurants, etc. then if I was Pitt or Syracuse or any other non-NC school, I'd want those things spread around to my state rather than NC getting all the benefits. But if there are no real benefits, then sure, let them all happen in North Carolina.

I also don't think any taxpayer implications are on the line either. Heck, in this case the taxpayers are giving the ACC $15 million, cold cash. IMO they tend to lose when it comes to interactions with athletics, be it college or pro.

Also, even if they (the profits, jobs, taxpayers etc) do depend on that, IMO if UNC is in a position to leave the ACC, then that would mean that FSU has escaped, and it likely means Clemson and Miami are gone as well. In which case, the ACC will be significantly diminished anyway, even if UNC were to stay. So IMO the choice would be "three schools in a diminished ACC and one in a P2 league, or all four in a diminished ACC", and logic says the former is better.

So to me, these actions we've seen out of NC governing bodies to emphasize that they want the schools to stay in the same conference are designed to protect NC State. IMO these state powers know that UNC is desired by the SEC and B1G, while NC State is not, and that is where the danger lies. It is an attempt to ward that off, IMO. NC State stands to lose significant athletic money and prestige if that happens, there aren't IMO any appreciable broader implications.

Just MO.

If FSU, Clemson and Miami buy their way out of the ACC, but UNCCH remains in the conference the ACC remains a major conference with solid football and elite basketball brands, the best Olympic sports, extremely high academic standards and a footprint both running up and down the eastern United States and extended out to the West Coast.

(03-04-2024 11:10 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:23 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

The very definition of a mom and pop shop

A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

Yep, and in less than a handful of years that will have as much impact as a store in 1981 advertising they were they exclusive local sellers of Betamax players.

To the contrary, you’ll see more customized channels in the future. Channels based solely on the largest brands with historical content and documentary specials. The younger generation wants more customization, not less.

(03-04-2024 12:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:10 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:23 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 08:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The ACC has the problems it faces because they've always thought too small and provincially.

The very definition of a mom and pop shop

A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

Yep, and in less than a handful of years that will have as much impact as a store in 1981 advertising they were they exclusive local sellers of Betamax players.

To the contrary, you’ll see more customized channels in the future. Channels based solely on the largest brands with historical content and documentary specials. The younger generation wants more customization, not less.

Current lack of profitability and consolidation efforts in the streaming industry seem to disagree, but sure.

(03-04-2024 12:19 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:10 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:23 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  The very definition of a mom and pop shop

A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

Yep, and in less than a handful of years that will have as much impact as a store in 1981 advertising they were they exclusive local sellers of Betamax players.

To the contrary, you’ll see more customized channels in the future. Channels based solely on the largest brands with historical content and documentary specials. The younger generation wants more customization, not less.

Current lack of profitability and consolidation efforts in the streaming industry seem to disagree, but sure.

Yet the direct to consumer YouTube channels are raking in more money than ever. Seems like you’re not thinking outside the box here.

(03-04-2024 12:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:19 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:10 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:32 AM)esayem Wrote:  A mom and pop shop with its own network that stretches from Boston to Miami to the San Francisco Bay. Whatever you say

Yep, and in less than a handful of years that will have as much impact as a store in 1981 advertising they were they exclusive local sellers of Betamax players.

To the contrary, you’ll see more customized channels in the future. Channels based solely on the largest brands with historical content and documentary specials. The younger generation wants more customization, not less.

Current lack of profitability and consolidation efforts in the streaming industry seem to disagree, but sure.

Yet the direct to consumer YouTube channels are raking in more money than ever. Seems like you’re not thinking outside the box here.

Yes, but not the kind of money that mass media-dependent properties like big time sports are accustomed to.

Mr Beast's revenue last year was $82M. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/mr...235735506/ Nobody else raked in half of that.

That's Aresco LEague money.

(03-04-2024 12:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:19 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:10 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  Yep, and in less than a handful of years that will have as much impact as a store in 1981 advertising they were they exclusive local sellers of Betamax players.

To the contrary, you’ll see more customized channels in the future. Channels based solely on the largest brands with historical content and documentary specials. The younger generation wants more customization, not less.

Current lack of profitability and consolidation efforts in the streaming industry seem to disagree, but sure.

Yet the direct to consumer YouTube channels are raking in more money than ever. Seems like you’re not thinking outside the box here.

Yes, but not the kind of money that mass media-dependent properties like big time sports are accustomed to.

Mr Beast's revenue last year was $82M. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/mr...235735506/ Nobody else raked in half of that.

That's Aresco LEague money.

Mr Beast is not live sports. I’m just saying there are alternate routes that aren’t being explored by the major players, who are going to cut archaic deals until they plateau due to an ancient model.

This is more of a funny Easter Egg than something that would dictate realignment.

The ACC losing its incentive from the state of North Carolina only means the ACC needs to pay a little more on their property bill.

(03-04-2024 12:46 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:19 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:17 PM)esayem Wrote:  To the contrary, you’ll see more customized channels in the future. Channels based solely on the largest brands with historical content and documentary specials. The younger generation wants more customization, not less.

Current lack of profitability and consolidation efforts in the streaming industry seem to disagree, but sure.

Yet the direct to consumer YouTube channels are raking in more money than ever. Seems like you’re not thinking outside the box here.

Yes, but not the kind of money that mass media-dependent properties like big time sports are accustomed to.

Mr Beast's revenue last year was $82M. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/mr...235735506/ Nobody else raked in half of that.

That's Aresco LEague money.

Mr Beast is not live sports. I’m just saying there are alternate routes that aren’t being explored by the major players, who are going to cut archaic deals until they plateau due to an ancient model.

And I'm saing that those alternate routes are NEVER going to produce the amount of money that live sports leagues have commanded, and have come to expect. You cannot match the money from "everyone who watches TV pays for sports" by extracting money from the people who care about your sports.

(03-04-2024 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:46 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:19 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  Current lack of profitability and consolidation efforts in the streaming industry seem to disagree, but sure.

Yet the direct to consumer YouTube channels are raking in more money than ever. Seems like you’re not thinking outside the box here.

Yes, but not the kind of money that mass media-dependent properties like big time sports are accustomed to.

Mr Beast's revenue last year was $82M. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/mr...235735506/ Nobody else raked in half of that.

That's Aresco LEague money.

Mr Beast is not live sports. I’m just saying there are alternate routes that aren’t being explored by the major players, who are going to cut archaic deals until they plateau due to an ancient model.

And I'm saing that those alternate routes are NEVER going to produce the amount of money that live sports leagues have commanded, and have come to expect. You cannot match the money from "everyone who watches TV pays for sports" by extracting money from the people who care about your sports.

...and that might not be a realistic option in the future.

(03-04-2024 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:46 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:20 PM)esayem Wrote:  Yet the direct to consumer YouTube channels are raking in more money than ever. Seems like you’re not thinking outside the box here.

Yes, but not the kind of money that mass media-dependent properties like big time sports are accustomed to.

Mr Beast's revenue last year was $82M. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/mr...235735506/ Nobody else raked in half of that.

That's Aresco LEague money.

Mr Beast is not live sports. I’m just saying there are alternate routes that aren’t being explored by the major players, who are going to cut archaic deals until they plateau due to an ancient model.

And I'm saing that those alternate routes are NEVER going to produce the amount of money that live sports leagues have commanded, and have come to expect. You cannot match the money from "everyone who watches TV pays for sports" by extracting money from the people who care about your sports.

...and that might not be a realistic option in the future.

I'm not sure what you're arguing there as John didn't lay out an "option" in his last post. The reality is you'll never make more from turning your product into a niche product where only the die-hards pay for it. Having a product where 100 people pay for it while only 20 use it is always going to be more profitable than trying to charge just the 20 users market-rate (because there are various price points where those users will start to drop out, including at the market-rate level, leading to a need to raise the price on each user remaining).

Additionally, turning your product into a niche market eliminates casual users and doesn't grow your brand, eventually leading to stagnation and potential elimination.

(03-04-2024 11:44 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:38 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:07 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:01 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  You missed the point.

Eh, you seemed to emphasize the importance to the BOG powers of keeping the state economy whole. So I addressed, or tried to address, that aspect of that - IMO there is nothing significant about the state economy that depends on whether NC State, Duke and WF are in a "power" athletic conference or not.

Which takes me then back to ... protecting NC State.

Just MO.

It's about the interconnectivity of business, academics and government. The point is that the BOG aren't just thinking about football. They are thinking about the state economy and how it can best serve their and the taxpayers interests. An increased athletic department budget for UNCCH is small potatoes in the grand scheme. Sure they want to go back to their hometowns and say, "Go Pack", or "I bleed Carolina Blue". But that's just theatrics. They actually want to meet with the CEOs of food distribution businesses, hotel chains, transportation services, local government officals etc. and say we've got 42 events locked up over the next 2 years that will mean profits, jobs, and opportunities to your community. And we can expect this to continue into the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I agree that there is interconnectivity between business, academic and government. I just don't think those connections depend on whether the state of North Carolina has four schools in an athletically "power" ACC or not. I agree that the B1G or SEC increase for UNC athletics is small potatoes, but I also think that the decline in money for the athletic budgets of NCST, WF and Duke (should UNC leave the ACC and the ACC drop down to G-level) is small potatoes as well.

IMO, regardless of what conferences those schools are in, they will still play their same roles academically and in terms of partnering with businesses and government. The universities aren't going anywhere even if their athletics are diminished in a rump ACC or a move to the Sun Belt. I don't believe profits or jobs to any appreciable degree depend on that. IMO the NC economy would not "notice" in a big picture sense, any appreciable impact from the loss of things like the laundry list of ACC championships that are to be held in the conference. The vast majority of those lose money and very few people travel for them, I think, not enough to matter to the state economy.

A tell for me about that is why would the other members of the ACC agree to have the ACC sign a deal for a paltry $15m subsidy from NC if it means all those valuable conference events are in NC? If those events brought in a lot of travel money for hotels, restaurants, etc. then if I was Pitt or Syracuse or any other non-NC school, I'd want those things spread around to my state rather than NC getting all the benefits. But if there are no real benefits, then sure, let them all happen in North Carolina.

I also don't think any taxpayer implications are on the line either. Heck, in this case the taxpayers are giving the ACC $15 million, cold cash. IMO they tend to lose when it comes to interactions with athletics, be it college or pro.

Also, even if they (the profits, jobs, taxpayers etc) do depend on that, IMO if UNC is in a position to leave the ACC, then that would mean that FSU has escaped, and it likely means Clemson and Miami are gone as well. In which case, the ACC will be significantly diminished anyway, even if UNC were to stay. So IMO the choice would be "three schools in a diminished ACC and one in a P2 league, or all four in a diminished ACC", and logic says the former is better.

So to me, these actions we've seen out of NC governing bodies to emphasize that they want the schools to stay in the same conference are designed to protect NC State. IMO these state powers know that UNC is desired by the SEC and B1G, while NC State is not, and that is where the danger lies. It is an attempt to ward that off, IMO. NC State stands to lose significant athletic money and prestige if that happens, there aren't IMO any appreciable broader implications.

Just MO.

If FSU, Clemson and Miami buy their way out of the ACC, but UNCCH remains in the conference the ACC remains a major conference with solid football and elite basketball brands, the best Olympic sports, extremely high academic standards and a footprint both running up and down the eastern United States and extended out to the West Coast.

I don't think so. In that case, maybe ESPN would still be on the hook for the normal media payout, but in the eyes of the public and media the ACC would no longer even be an M2 conference, it would fall to quasi-status, between the Gs and the Ms, a significant loss of status. Its football would not be comparable to the P2 or nB12, and so would IMO lose that status, as football is what "drives the bus" so to speak.

Just MO.

(03-03-2024 12:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

^^^^^^^

Ding, ding, ding........winner, winner chicken dinner!

If it comes down to it the General Assembly would just give the Carolina athletic department $40 Million a year to stay put.

There is no reality in the multiverse where the state is giving UNC $40 million to stay in the ACC.

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

You don't think that SEC membership for say the triangle 3 would have a much bigger impact financially? I certainly do and it wouldn't be close. You could actually fill up Bank of America stadium for one example. You don't think Kentucky, Auburn and Tennessee fans would pack the Spectrum Center in Charlotte? I think it paired w/ Duke, State and UNC it would draw MORE fans overall than the current ACC tournament. Then all 3 would be getting another $50M guaranteed every, single year. The NC BOG would be stupid to turn that kind of money down. What are they losing? Visitors from Syracuse and Pitt? I think the ACC boomers' love for tradition has made you incredibly naive.

To be perfectly clear again... I don't think it's going to be just UNC moving to the SEC. It's going to be a package of all 3. Wake will just be SOL.

(03-04-2024 11:30 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 01:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It's simply about control Quo. Clearly the state economy would be better with SEC and Big 10 travel crowds coming in and TV exposure more directly in the SE and SW and in the Northern Midwest. There must be some political advantage they believe they have to want to pursue this from such an awkward tack and my bet is the bureaucracy of the Board of Regents period. Perhaps they fear that if the ACC headquarters were gone, and/or their top schools divided among several larger entities that somehow the necessity of their positions would be diminished.

How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

LOL, but, but...what about ALL of those huge Big Ten fan bases that keeps College Park bursting at the seams!!??

Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years prior to B10: 45,572
Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years since the B10: 39,145 (COVID year excluded)

Yeah, I could see joining the SEC would be a boon. Folks would travel from AL & GA for sure. But the B10?

(03-05-2024 11:18 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:30 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:16 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  How many events do you think the SEC or B10 will host in North Carolina if one or two of their members are from the state? I'm guessing zero. How many events do you think the ACC will host in North Carolina if it is the center of the conference with 4 members from the state, and with an economic agreement for a large number guaranteed to be held here?

The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

LOL, but, but...what about ALL of those huge Big Ten fan bases that keeps College Park bursting at the seams!!??

Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years prior to B10: 45,572
Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years since the B10: 39,145 (COVID year excluded)

Yeah, I could see joining the SEC would be a boon. Folks would travel from AL & GA for sure. But the B10?

Uh huh. You know how many Big 10 alumni are in the DMV?

If a school is looking for increased gate receipts by switching conferences, they're in for a rude awakening after the initial novelty bump.

It is all about winning to draw your own fans. Period. If an AD is looking to fill their stadium by filling it up with the opposing team's fans, they are sabotaging their own program and it isn't going to bring any financial boon.

(03-05-2024 10:53 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

You don't think that SEC membership for say the triangle 3 would have a much bigger impact financially? I certainly do and it wouldn't be close. You could actually fill up Bank of America stadium for one example. You don't think Kentucky, Auburn and Tennessee fans would pack the Spectrum Center in Charlotte? I think it paired w/ Duke, State and UNC it would draw MORE fans overall than the current ACC tournament. Then all 3 would be getting another $50M guaranteed every, single year. The NC BOG would be stupid to turn that kind of money down. What are they losing? Visitors from Syracuse and Pitt? I think the ACC boomers' love for tradition has made you incredibly naive.

To be perfectly clear again... I don't think it's going to be just UNC moving to the SEC. It's going to be a package of all 3. Wake will just be SOL.

I think realistically the only NC ACC school with a ticket to the Power 2 is NUCCH.
And I think I've made a case for the BOG prioritizing the economic health of the state over insuring that NCSU gets an invite as well. The idea that UNCCH joining a more prestigious conference would benefit the state as a whole more than a preserved strong ACC doesn't make sense to me. NCSU already fills their stadium, UNCCH comes close. Having 4 or 5 UNCCH home games sell out rather than nearly selling out doesn't move the needle much. Having a couple of sellout games in Charlotte is already happening when ASU vs ECU, UNCCH vs USC etc. meet, along with the ACC championship game. Any increases pale in comparison to the multiple ACC events that take place in the state. Most Men's Basketball ACC Tournaments are held either in Charlotte or Greensboro. I've offered a list of all the other championships held from Wilmington to Charlotte in the coming years earlier in the thread and it is extensive. In the big picture a vibrant healthy ACC greatly benefits our citizens. Keeping UNCCH in the conference protects that. The UNC System Board of Governors are going to look after those interests.

We're trying to compare apples and oranges then. I think multiple NC schools will end up in the P2, most likely the SEC. Those "other events" are a drop in the bucket compared to what SEC money would bring to the state.

(03-04-2024 02:52 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 02:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 01:02 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:46 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 12:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Yes, but not the kind of money that mass media-dependent properties like big time sports are accustomed to.

Mr Beast's revenue last year was $82M. https://variety.com/2023/digital/news/mr...235735506/ Nobody else raked in half of that.

That's Aresco LEague money.

Mr Beast is not live sports. I’m just saying there are alternate routes that aren’t being explored by the major players, who are going to cut archaic deals until they plateau due to an ancient model.

And I'm saing that those alternate routes are NEVER going to produce the amount of money that live sports leagues have commanded, and have come to expect. You cannot match the money from "everyone who watches TV pays for sports" by extracting money from the people who care about your sports.

...and that might not be a realistic option in the future.

I'm not sure what you're arguing there as John didn't lay out an "option" in his last post. The reality is you'll never make more from turning your product into a niche product where only the die-hards pay for it. Having a product where 100 people pay for it while only 20 use it is always going to be more profitable than trying to charge just the 20 users market-rate (because there are various price points where those users will start to drop out, including at the market-rate level, leading to a need to raise the price on each user remaining).

Additionally, turning your product into a niche market eliminates casual users and doesn't grow your brand, eventually leading to stagnation and potential elimination.

You’re missing the point. It wouldn’t be just diehards. It would be bundled in packages. You think Applebee’s is going to opt out of a streaming package that features Ohio State football? Cmon now

(03-05-2024 12:16 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 11:18 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 11:30 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:59 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 05:34 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The SECN is already based in Charlotte and the SEC is pretty good about hosting events in its member states. The point is 4 maybe 5 games a year by each school in the SEC or Big 10 would be played in North Carolina and that is a pile of out of state people flying into to North Carolina, or driving in to buy hotel rooms, eat at restaurants, and buy stuff while they are there. And that's out of state money flowing in, not Virginia and South Carolina people popping in and leaving after the game, and not a 4 schools worth of alums driving home after a nearby event when the 4 in state schools play each other now.

Compare that to this, and I think you will concede my point.

The ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament will take place in North Carolina for five consecutive years from 2025 to 2029. The historical postseason tournament will alternate years, taking place at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte in 2025, 2026, and 2028, and at the Greensboro Coliseum in 2027 and 2029. No venue has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament more than the Greensboro Coliseum, and 2027 will mark the 30th time. The City of Charlotte has hosted the ACC Men’s Basketball Tournament on 13 occasions.

The ACC Women’s Basketball Tournament will also split time between Charlotte and Greensboro, as the women’s tournament will tip off in the Greensboro Coliseum in 2024 and 2025. In 2027, the longest-running DI conference women’s basketball tournament in the country will be held at the Spectrum Center in Charlotte.

Like the men’s and women’s basketball championships, the ACC Baseball Championship will also alternate sites over the next six years. Starting this spring, the baseball conference championship will be hosted at Truist Field in Charlotte in 2024, 2026, and 2028, while Durham and the Durham Bulls Athletic Park will host the championship event in 2025, 2027, and 2029.

In addition to basketball, the Greensboro Coliseum Complex will also host men’s and women’s swimming and diving as well as gymnastics. The Greensboro Aquatic Center will host the ACC Men’s and Women’s Swimming & Diving Championships in five of the next six years – 2024, 2025, 2027, 2028, and 2029. The ACC Gymnastics Championship will be held three straight years – 2024, 2025, and 2026 – at the Greensboro Coliseum.

Charlotte is the host city for both the ACC Men’s and Women’s Lacrosse Championships beginning this spring and running through 2028. Both events will be held at the American Legion Memorial Stadium.

The ACC Women’s Soccer Championship and the ACC Men’s Soccer Championship will continue to be held at WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary through the 2029 season.
The Cary Tennis Park will continue to host the ACC Women’s and Men’s Tennis Championships from 2024 through 2029.

Lake Wheeler Park in Raleigh will host the ACC Rowing Championship in five of the next seven years, including 2024, 2026, 2027, 2029, and 2030, while the ACC Women’s Golf Championship will be played on a variety of McConnell Golf properties throughout the Southeast through 2029. The 2024 event will be held in Wilmington at Porters Neck Country Club, while the 2025, 2027, and 2029 tournaments will take place at Sedgefield Country Club in Greensboro.

LOL, but, but...what about ALL of those huge Big Ten fan bases that keeps College Park bursting at the seams!!??

Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years prior to B10: 45,572
Maryland Average Home Attendance 10 years since the B10: 39,145 (COVID year excluded)

Yeah, I could see joining the SEC would be a boon. Folks would travel from AL & GA for sure. But the B10?

Uh huh. You know how many Big 10 alumni are in the DMV?

If a school is looking for increased gate receipts by switching conferences, they're in for a rude awakening after the initial novelty bump.

It is all about winning to draw your own fans. Period. If an AD is looking to fill their stadium by filling it up with the opposing team's fans, they are sabotaging their own program and it isn't going to bring any financial boon.

An extra 35 million a year in media revenue sure helps those chances of winning if the money is invested in the product. And if you do that, does it not also help that large traveling fan bases are attending? Maintaining status quo seems to be slowly eroding the ACC. So, the question is actually whether staying the course is going to be an effective strategy?