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Its a completely different college environment now than when the CAA was getting at large bids every once in awhile.

No one we are truly recruiting against (not Maryland) is using our schedule against us. The teams we are recruiting against for kids generally have inferior facilities and schedules than we do.

Unless you think we are consistently recruiting heads up with P5 schools, which I don't believe. You might get a kid that is a non priority from a P5 school.

I thought that was what some were alluding to, that Mike Jones was gonna bring P5 level transfers and some occasional recruits in. I really do believe many of our fans think that for whatever that is worth.

As far as conference affiliation, yes we are in very poor shape for at large discussion but primarily because our league is 18th nationally, behind the American East, Ivy League and Southern. That doesn't need to remain that way and we are a major reason for that. If we return to top 75 or so it will alter to a degree the pecking order. I know we will not quite be the MVC but they have four teams in position to be considered right now. In the CAA heyday we were comparable to the MVC.

If we're talking about scheduling and recruiting and the kid really wants to play at Duke or wherever, they're going to get a much better chance of doing that at a school in the ACC than they ever will here. We just can't win on that front.

The important thing for us is to make the best schedule for *us*. We should play more games against power teams but games against W&M, NSU, Hampton, are good for the region. We scoff and mock VT fans for wanting to get out of our series in football and the A10/VCU/Mason for cancelling our games with us and yet are so quick to turn up our nose to other basketball programs when we only won seven games this year.

Let's walk before we run, and lets win before we get snooty.

(03-10-2024 08:57 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  I disagree. ODU only played 9 quad 1/2 games. We cannot be in the at large discussion with that few opportunities. JMU has played a total of 3. We need like at least 12 quad 1 or 2 games. The schedule needs an upgrade. It has really fallen off.

Hard to evaluate our schedule when we're a NET drain ourselves. If we were top 100 and still only had 9 Q1/2 games, then sure. But us improving will have a good impact on the rest of the league and our non-conference schedule, just gotta hope App and JMU can maintain this level of quality when Kerns and Byington are surely hired away and hope the rest of the East can improve too.

(03-11-2024 09:21 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  If we're talking about scheduling and recruiting and the kid really wants to play at Duke or wherever, they're going to get a much better chance of doing that at a school in the ACC than they ever will here. We just can't win on that front.

The important thing for us is to make the best schedule for *us*. We should play more games against power teams but games against W&M, NSU, Hampton, are good for the region. We scoff and mock VT fans for wanting to get out of our series in football and the A10/VCU/Mason for cancelling our games with us and yet are so quick to turn up our nose to other basketball programs when we only won seven games this year.

Let's walk before we run, and lets win before we get snooty.

The problem though isnt necessarily just us and our scheduling. Its getting the rest of the conference members to boost their scheduling too. When schools like ULM and Louisiana Lafayette schedule schools like Champion Christian and UT Tyler for their OOC schedule, it brings the rest of the league down. That same crap was happening in CUSA. Keith Gill needs to push all teams in the SBC to try and schedule better teams.

To be fair, it wasn't ULMs fault, they played Houston, LT, SMU, Sam Houston State...it could be a lot worse than that. Im not worried about a D3 game or 2, they don't affect anything.

Louisiana also tried; Youngstown State, Toledo, Wright State, Long Beach State, Samford, LT, McNeese State.......look at JMUs schedule.

Ah, I know many of my punches aren't landing here but I'll try one more.

Yes it would be awesome if the entire SBC scheduled better but might not be realistic. Almost as good would be for ODUs East partners to schedule better.

Wood could grab JMU, App St, Marshall, Georgia St, Georgia Southern...teams we play twice a year (I think) and tell them...I want you to know we back up! How do we strengthen ourselves collectively?

1. End H/H with teams from inferior conferences (like 15th RPI and on)
2. Do not schedule a team at home that you can lose to
3. Play sub 100 Net P5 schools on the road
4. Do damage in those holiday tournaments

Makes sense if all the teams in the league cared about hoops. But given some of these programs lack of facility investments, budgets and fanbases, that’s hard to prove out. I mean even the A10 tried to game the NET and it failed.

Gotcha...that's fair. It probably has been tried and it usually just morphs into every school for themselves

(03-11-2024 08:56 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  Its a completely different college environment now than when the CAA was getting at large bids every once in awhile.

No one we are truly recruiting against (not Maryland) is using our schedule against us. The teams we are recruiting against for kids generally have inferior facilities and schedules than we do.

Unless you think we are consistently recruiting heads up with P5 schools, which I don't believe. You might get a kid that is a non priority from a P5 school.

I do think it was more than every once in awhile. Or another way to put it is the CAA had teams positioned for an at large more than once in awhile

(03-11-2024 12:05 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 08:56 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  Its a completely different college environment now than when the CAA was getting at large bids every once in awhile.

No one we are truly recruiting against (not Maryland) is using our schedule against us. The teams we are recruiting against for kids generally have inferior facilities and schedules than we do.

Unless you think we are consistently recruiting heads up with P5 schools, which I don't believe. You might get a kid that is a non priority from a P5 school.

I do think it was more than every once in awhile. Or another way to put it is the CAA had teams positioned for an at large more than once in awhile

Not really worth arguing bc its a different environment, but I think outside of a rather small stretch where us and VCU were really good, it wasn't very common.

I'm doing this off of memory. We had one, the other three where we won the tournament we would have gotten at large. Mason, VCU, Hofstra all had at least one I believe. I'd say probably ten times in that window the CAA had at large teams better than anything we've seen in the SBC

I do.agree...it was a small window

(03-11-2024 12:05 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 08:56 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  Its a completely different college environment now than when the CAA was getting at large bids every once in awhile.

No one we are truly recruiting against (not Maryland) is using our schedule against us. The teams we are recruiting against for kids generally have inferior facilities and schedules than we do.

Unless you think we are consistently recruiting heads up with P5 schools, which I don't believe. You might get a kid that is a non priority from a P5 school.

I do think it was more than every once in awhile. Or another way to put it is the CAA had teams positioned for an at large more than once in awhile

Yes, but it took a long time to get there. SBC is likely going to have to take a similar path. Win, increase schedule strength, patience.

(03-11-2024 10:54 AM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Ah, I know many of my punches aren't landing here but I'll try one more.

Yes it would be awesome if the entire SBC scheduled better but might not be realistic. Almost as good would be for ODUs East partners to schedule better.

Wood could grab JMU, App St, Marshall, Georgia St, Georgia Southern...teams we play twice a year (I think) and tell them...I want you to know we back up! How do we strengthen ourselves collectively?

1. End H/H with teams from inferior conferences (like 15th RPI and on)
2. Do not schedule a team at home that you can lose to
3. Play sub 100 Net P5 schools on the road
4. [b]Do damage in those holiday tournaments[/b]

If we did number one and two, we would have had few to no home non-conference games for the last several years. Isn't #2 what schools like us complain about from the P4? Seems ridiculous to complain about P4s not wanting to play good mid-majors even at home (resulting in mid-majors being unable to get the resume building wins they need for an at large) and then turn around make it your scheduling philosophy. For 3, do you really think we don't try and do this? For 4, I am sure no one at ODU has ever thought of this. Cmon, do you really think the coaches and people in charge of scheduling are idiots?

(03-11-2024 09:21 AM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  If we're talking about scheduling and recruiting and the kid really wants to play at Duke or wherever, they're going to get a much better chance of doing that at a school in the ACC than they ever will here. We just can't win on that front.

The important thing for us is to make the best schedule for *us*. We should play more games against power teams but games against W&M, NSU, Hampton, are good for the region. We scoff and mock VT fans for wanting to get out of our series in football and the A10/VCU/Mason for cancelling our games with us and yet are so quick to turn up our nose to other basketball programs when we only won seven games this year.

Let's walk before we run, and lets win before we get snooty.

As far as scheduling goes, I think your potential is as good as the company you keep. That is from a perception perspective as well as an achievement perspective. I truly believe that playing better teams consistently drives your team to perform at that level, from the coaches to the players.

That said, we have to prove to prospective opponents that we are worthy of playing, and ultimately hosting them, and that will take some time. In the immediate future, I am okay with a fairly weak schedule that allows us to potentially pile up 25 win seasons (if we are capable), after 2 or 3 seasons like that, the opportunities will begin to open up, and the schedule should be upgraded significantly.

Scheduling, imo, plays a huge part in growing your program to the next level, and managing it appropriately is a significant part of building this program.

(03-11-2024 12:17 PM)TribeinVB Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 10:54 AM)ODUR8R Wrote:  Ah, I know many of my punches aren't landing here but I'll try one more.

Yes it would be awesome if the entire SBC scheduled better but might not be realistic. Almost as good would be for ODUs East partners to schedule better.

Wood could grab JMU, App St, Marshall, Georgia St, Georgia Southern...teams we play twice a year (I think) and tell them...I want you to know we back up! How do we strengthen ourselves collectively?

1. End H/H with teams from inferior conferences (like 15th RPI and on)
2. Do not schedule a team at home that you can lose to
3. Play sub 100 Net P5 schools on the road
4. [b]Do damage in those holiday tournaments[/b]

If we did number one and two, we would have had few to no home non-conference games for the last several years. Isn't #2 what schools like us complain about from the P4? Seems ridiculous to complain about P4s not wanting to play good mid-majors even at home (resulting in mid-majors being unable to get the resume building wins they need for an at large) and then turn around make it your scheduling philosophy. For 3, do you really think we don't try and do this? For 4, I am sure no one at ODU has ever thought of this. Cmon, do you really think the coaches and people in charge of scheduling are idiots?

Well that settles it, we should just give up.

TribeinVB- I do not think they are idiots

Things like NET and Kenpom will keep those teams that were getting at large bids 15 years ago out of the tournament now. Sorry that’s just how I see it. Y’all don’t like the schedule this year, but if you substitute Richmond and VCU in place of say William and Mary/ Radford… that’s as good a schedule as we are ever going to play. I don’t see it getting much better.

(03-11-2024 12:27 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Things like NET and Kenpom will keep those teams that were getting at large bids 15 years ago out of the tournament now. Sorry that’s just how I see it. Y’all don’t like the schedule this year, but if you substitute Richmond and VCU in place of say William and Mary/ Radford… that’s as good a schedule as we are ever going to play. I don’t see it getting much better.

Well that settles it, we should just give up.

(03-11-2024 12:24 PM)ODUR8R Wrote:  TribeinVB- I do not think they are idiots

Y’all make fun of JMU or whatever. I would kill to have that season. They won a bunch of games. Are fun to watch. Students go to the games, they score a bunch of points. It’s Entertainment! How about ODU figures out how to put a good product on the court and win games before they start worrying about scheduling and at large bids.