LastMinuteman Wrote:We've contacted the Big East many times, they always say no. Granted, those calls have to go through Tranghese, who represents the 16 member Big East, not the split BE. He said they're not even looking in "this direction" though, they're looking at programs like Penn State (good luck with that). The "this direction" comment makes me wonder if they're holding a place for Boston College, which means UMass could never get in since there would be a market overlap.

It would certainly be easier for us to make a move if some representative of the BE Footballers gave us some milestones to meet like "increase your athletic budget to $XX million and average XX,000 attendance and we'll take you." But I don't really expect us or any other FCS program to get that sort of offer from a BCS conference. The other 5 BCS conferences would never do something like that. Unless UMass won a national championship in basketball or something like that, it'd clearly establish the Big East as being a notch below the rest of the BCS. Which it is, but they still can't afford to act like it is.

Well, I guess it will come down to whoever the new commissioner is. He/she will have to decide if the BE will stay together as is or split. I dont think BC will come back. The ONLY way i see that happening is if by some miracle the BE convinces Penn st. and maryland to join an eastern league. Id say ND as well to even out the membership to 12 but that would be 2 miracles

No Bull Wrote:Temple? How is it going for Golden and Temple in the MAC.... not very well. I guess their recommitment to Football is over with. UMASS would probably move up as smoothly as UCONN and they fit nicely in the Big East Footprint.

After tonight's win over Ohio Temple is 3 and 5 with a shot at a 6 and 6 season if they only loose to Navy to finish out their season. Temple currently is in second place in the MAC East.

Temple has met all of the BE criteria that they failed to meet before getting the boot except the attendence mark of a 25,000 average attendence. Currently in the MAC they are only averaging 17,500 at home games. Last year they averaged 35,000 but they need home games with Navy and Penn State in the same year to inflate that average. Temple would need Rutgers, Conn, and West Virginia to travel well, as well as home games with Penn State and Navy to keep thie average attendence at 25,000 or higher evey year. Pitt and Cuse would not help and USF, L'ville, and Cinn are to far away to travel in numbers. Smart scheduling to keep their average up if they were to return to the BE would have Rutgers, WV, and Conn at home in the same year, and have Navy and Penn State at home the year that Rutgers, Conn, and West Virginia are away. In the forseeable future though Temple will continue to represent PA in the MAC, especially if the BE does not split. There are bigger fish out there to catch market wise in FB for the BE as long as Nova keeps the Philly market with their BB representation.

panite Wrote:

No Bull Wrote:Temple? How is it going for Golden and Temple in the MAC.... not very well. I guess their recommitment to Football is over with. UMASS would probably move up as smoothly as UCONN and they fit nicely in the Big East Footprint.

After tonight's win over Ohio Temple is 3 and 5 with a shot at a 6 and 6 season if they only loose to Navy to finish out their season. Temple currently is in second place in the MAC East.

Temple has met all of the BE criteria that they failed to meet before getting the boot except the attendence mark of a 25,000 average attendence. Currently in the MAC they are only averaging 17,500 at home games. Last year they averaged 35,000 but they need home games with Navy and Penn State in the same year to inflate that average. Temple would need Rutgers, Conn, and West Virginia to travel well, as well as home games with Penn State and Navy to keep thie average attendence at 25,000 or higher evey year. Pitt and Cuse would not help and USF, L'ville, and Cinn are to far away to travel in numbers. Smart scheduling to keep their average up if they were to return to the BE would have Rutgers, WV, and Conn at home in the same year, and have Navy and Penn State at home the year that Rutgers, Conn, and West Virginia are away. In the forseeable future though Temple will continue to represent PA in the MAC, especially if the BE does not split. There are bigger fish out there to catch market wise in FB for the BE as long as Nova keeps the Philly market with their BB representation.

Why is everybody trying to push Temple so hard when there are so many other schools that could get 50,000 per game in the Big East?

gosports1 Wrote:Well, I guess it will come down to whoever the new commissioner is. He/she will have to decide if the BE will stay together as is or split.

Disagree...as I think the decision has already been made...and that any new Commish will be chosen to either join the Football Schools or the Basketball Schools after the split.

Personally, I think the Football Schools will vote in a friendly Catholic/Basketball Commish...as that person selected will most likely stay with the hoop schools...while the Football Schools may already know who they want to be their own Commish when they split in 2-3 years.

firmbizzle Wrote:Why is everybody trying to push Temple so hard when there are so many other schools that could get 50,000 per game in the Big East?

Maybe fans from other Big East schools feel that it will be easier to beat Temple year in and year out than possible some other stronger candidates out there.

KnightLight Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:Why is everybody trying to push Temple so hard when there are so many other schools that could get 50,000 per game in the Big East?

Maybe fans from other Big East schools feel that it will be easier to beat Temple year in and year out than possible some other stronger candidates out there.

They had their chance in a BCS conference. Nobody in Philly cares about them. ECU, UCF, and Memphis could all average 50,000+ in a BCS conference.

firmbizzle Wrote:Why is everybody trying to push Temple so hard when there are so many other schools that could get 50,000 per game in the Big East?

Well if there was a split, it would just make sense to get Temple because of that huge market. I believe Temple would surpass Nova in hoops once again; the Owls may be better than them this year, we shall see.

If Syracuse or Rutgers dipped, I think UCF is the best option to keep the league together.

If there was a split I think you still go with UCF. ECU may have a solid down home football team, but they won't get you any respect in hoops, neither will UCF. So basically you could go with one of them, and then a solid hoops program in a vacant northeastern market, Temple or UMass. Syracuse and UConn are never going to allow the Big East to be a Southern Football 1st League.

Could you imagine if Syracuse left? There would be a split. If Rutgers left, which is much more likely, UCF gets the nod as the best all around option to keep the 16 schools together.

firmbizzle Wrote:

KnightLight Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:Why is everybody trying to push Temple so hard when there are so many other schools that could get 50,000 per game in the Big East?

Maybe fans from other Big East schools feel that it will be easier to beat Temple year in and year out than possible some other stronger candidates out there.

They had their chance in a BCS conference. Nobody in Philly cares about them. ECU, UCF, and Memphis could all average 50,000+ in a BCS conference.

Firmbizzle is correct...UCF , ECU, and Memphis would average over 50k for home games, especially UCF and ECU. That is why they would be the lead candidates if expansion comes about...football rules when it comes to expansion.

RIFRAF Wrote:Firmbizzle is correct...UCF , ECU, and Memphis would average over 50k for home games, especially UCF and ECU. That is why they would be the lead candidates if expansion comes about...football rules when it comes to expansion.

None of those schools average 50k right now, much less over. They don't even have the capacity save Memphis, which is basically Temple SouthWest. Why go so out of the footprint for a school that gives you what Temple does: off campus stadium, no fan interest? The same could be argued that Temple and UMass would average 40k for full membership in a BCS league.

I dont see a split happening anytime soon, Scheduling may be an irratating issue for fb but the BB, as large as it, seems to be doing ok. Speculation that 10 teams will make the tourny and another 3 or so the NIT. Not bad. The BE is also going to sponsor mens lacrosse starting in 2010. 5 of those schools are BB. If there was already a plan to split i dont think "the commish" would allow a new sport to be sponsored.That decision set off a chain reaction thruout the lax world with conf realignments. Made cuse give up its independence and nova and pc ante up and fully sponsor the sport. I know the BE could still have associate members in LAX if there was a split but why put everyone thru all this trouble if there was a split coming soon? I'd say no earlier than 2015 if at all. To keep things interesting who would get the BE name and history if a split occured? There are 8 members on each side that have/will be together for the 5 year requirement.

esayem Wrote:

RIFRAF Wrote:Firmbizzle is correct...UCF , ECU, and Memphis would average over 50k for home games, especially UCF and ECU. That is why they would be the lead candidates if expansion comes about...football rules when it comes to expansion.

None of those schools average 50k right now, much less over. They don't even have the capacity save Memphis, which is basically Temple SouthWest. Why go so out of the footprint for a school that gives you what Temple does: off campus stadium, no fan interest? The same could be argued that Temple and UMass would average 40k for full membership in a BCS league.

ECU, UCF, and Memphis don't average 50,000 now because they are non-bcs now. UCF, and ECU are both willing to increase their stadium size(they both average 43,000+ now). Once there are games that matter people will go, there just isn't anything else to do. Temple was in a BCS conference, they couldn't get 20,000 people to care enough. The Philly market didn't care either. As far a basketball is concerned, every div 1 program in America is only 1 coach, a few players, or a few seasons away from being a basketball powerhouse.

firmbizzle Wrote:

esayem Wrote:

RIFRAF Wrote:Firmbizzle is correct...UCF , ECU, and Memphis would average over 50k for home games, especially UCF and ECU. That is why they would be the lead candidates if expansion comes about...football rules when it comes to expansion.

None of those schools average 50k right now, much less over. They don't even have the capacity save Memphis, which is basically Temple SouthWest. Why go so out of the footprint for a school that gives you what Temple does: off campus stadium, no fan interest? The same could be argued that Temple and UMass would average 40k for full membership in a BCS league.

ECU, UCF, and Memphis don't average 50,000 now because they are non-bcs now. UCF, and ECU are both willing to increase their stadium size(they both average 43,000+ now). Once there are games that matter people will go, there just isn't anything else to do. Temple was in a BCS conference, they couldn't get 20,000 people to care enough. The Philly market didn't care either. As far a basketball is concerned, every div 1 program in America is only 1 coach, a few players, or a few seasons away from being a basketball powerhouse.

To badly paraphrase JFK: ask not what the Big East can do for you - ask what you can do for the Big East. It is irrelevant as to how much a program might improve by moving from a non-BCS conference to the BCS - any expansion candidate needs to show that it's big-time BEFORE they join instead of the potential of what might happen afterward. Otherwise, what's the point of expanding and splitting another revenue share for a school? Is ESPN ever realistically going to pay more rights fees simply because the conference is larger by having ECU, Memphis, and/or UCF join? Are the larger conferences of the WAC, MAC, and C-USA raking much or any dough?

Look - I completely agree that it's better in a pure vacuum to have a 9 or 10 team conference. However, when looking at the Big East's particular situation, pretty much any realistic expansion candidate would actually dilute the already sub-par revenue streams to the other schools as opposed to add to them. This would also add to the instability of the conference (which voids another supposed reason for expansion), since such diluted revenues would make it even more likely that a school such as Syracuse or Rutgers would jump ship at the first chance that they get. We need to take a step back and look at the reality that pure numbers of schools don't mean anything - otherwise, we'd be talking about the dominance of the MAC. It's who a conference's schools are as opposed to how many. At the end of the day, it must be quality over quantity.

firmbizzle Wrote:ECU, UCF, and Memphis don't average 50,000 now because they are non-bcs now. UCF, and ECU are both willing to increase their stadium size(they both average 43,000+ now). Once there are games that matter people will go, there just isn't anything else to do. Temple was in a BCS conference, they couldn't get 20,000 people to care enough. The Philly market didn't care either. As far a basketball is concerned, every div 1 program in America is only 1 coach, a few players, or a few seasons away from being a basketball powerhouse.

Temple was hardly in a BCS conference. They were the step child that lived in the tool shed out back, and yes they were fed scraps so they never bothered to improve.

Some schools really don't care about basketball, like ECU. There are great coaches out there that schools are scared to hire. Coaches that have won a title like Nolan Richardson. He may be risky but there would be no uproar if ECU hired Richardson, not like if Indiana or Kentucky did. If ECU wants to get in a basketball league they haven't shown any signs. That's why what USF is doing is very interesting, they got a great coach now.

Philadelphia is too saturated with pro sports for college football to thrive. College football and basketball are king in Memphis.

Frank the Tank Wrote:

firmbizzle Wrote:

esayem Wrote:

RIFRAF Wrote:Firmbizzle is correct...UCF , ECU, and Memphis would average over 50k for home games, especially UCF and ECU. That is why they would be the lead candidates if expansion comes about...football rules when it comes to expansion.

None of those schools average 50k right now, much less over. They don't even have the capacity save Memphis, which is basically Temple SouthWest. Why go so out of the footprint for a school that gives you what Temple does: off campus stadium, no fan interest? The same could be argued that Temple and UMass would average 40k for full membership in a BCS league.

ECU, UCF, and Memphis don't average 50,000 now because they are non-bcs now. UCF, and ECU are both willing to increase their stadium size(they both average 43,000+ now). Once there are games that matter people will go, there just isn't anything else to do. Temple was in a BCS conference, they couldn't get 20,000 people to care enough. The Philly market didn't care either. As far a basketball is concerned, every div 1 program in America is only 1 coach, a few players, or a few seasons away from being a basketball powerhouse.

To badly paraphrase JFK: ask not what the Big East can do for you - ask what you can do for the Big East. It is irrelevant as to how much a program might improve by moving from a non-BCS conference to the BCS - any expansion candidate needs to show that it's big-time BEFORE they join instead of the potential of what might happen afterward. Otherwise, what's the point of expanding and splitting another revenue share for a school? Is ESPN ever realistically going to pay more rights fees simply because the conference is larger by having ECU, Memphis, and/or UCF join? Are the larger conferences of the WAC, MAC, and C-USA raking much or any dough?

Look - I completely agree that it's better in a pure vacuum to have a 9 or 10 team conference. However, when looking at the Big East's particular situation, pretty much any realistic expansion candidate would actually dilute the already sub-par revenue streams to the other schools as opposed to add to them. This would also add to the instability of the conference (which voids another supposed reason for expansion), since such diluted revenues would make it even more likely that a school such as Syracuse or Rutgers would jump ship at the first chance that they get. We need to take a step back and look at the reality that pure numbers of schools don't mean anything - otherwise, we'd be talking about the dominance of the MAC. It's who a conference's schools are as opposed to how many. At the end of the day, it must be quality over quantity.

I agree. If the BE was concerned with just having a 9 member Fb conference for easier scheduling they would have kept Temple around. There was plenty of time/opportunity to revoke their expulsion from the BE. The BE felt,i guess, they'd be better off without them

esayem Wrote:

RIFRAF Wrote:
Firmbizzle is correct...UCF , ECU, and Memphis would average over 50k for home games, especially UCF and ECU. That is why they would be the lead candidates if expansion comes about...football rules when it comes to expansion.

None of those schools average 50k right now, much less over. They don't even have the capacity save Memphis, which is basically Temple SouthWest. Why go so out of the footprint for a school that gives you what Temple does: off campus stadium, no fan interest? The same could be argued that Temple and UMass would average 40k for full membership in a BCS league.

Probably the above person mentioned potential 50K plus attendance at ECU and UCF as both of those on-campus stadiums are planned for expansion. (ECU starting a few thousand seats expansion now...and UCF already set with plans to expand their stadium to 65,000 in the future).

Last year, if UCF was in the Big East (without any conf BCS home games), UCF would have finished 3rd in Big East Attendance with more than 44,000 plus fans per game.

While Temple already had the BCS Football tag and failed miserably in regards to local support, believe most BCS Conferences will stay away from them in the future.

Temple should consider dropping down to 1aa and joining the colonial or patriot league or maybe exploring if there is any possibility of bringing back a10 FB. The $ they save could then be invested into their other programs.Lets face it, they're not even the best FB team in Philadelphia.(at least not clearly). The CAA or Patriot would give temple fb and "old school FB " feel. Would have more regional appeal. Playing schools like Villanova, delaware,lehigh, holy cross etc on a regular basis might create more of an interest for the fans. Especially since they would have a better chance of winning then they do now.

From what I've seen this year, Temple would not finish last in the Big East or C-USA. Temple could probably beat some of the schools we've been talking about. They have a pretty solid D, and actually shut Penn State out in the 1st quarter this year. Im telling you, that coach and his staff are the real deal. If Temple had an on-campus stadium how many students would roll outta bed and stumble over?

I don't like saying Temple vs other schools or ECu vs Dingleberry Tech or whatev, Im just saying the Temple of today is not the BE Temple of yesteryear.

esayem Wrote:From what I've seen this year, Temple would not finish last in the Big East or C-USA. Temple could probably beat some of the schools we've been talking about. They have a pretty solid D, and actually shut Penn State out in the 1st quarter this year. Im telling you, that coach and his staff are the real deal. If Temple had an on-campus stadium how many students would roll outta bed and stumble over?

I don't like saying Temple vs other schools or ECu vs Dingleberry Tech or whatev, Im just saying the Temple of today is not the BE Temple of yesteryear.

Temples' coach Golden was DC at Virginia...the man is a good recruiter and knows defense. Temple has a very good defense this year, maybe the best in the MAC. Unfortunately, they have no offense to speak of. The problem with Temple these days is attendance, attendance, attendance. They had an announced crowd of around 18k for their last game vs. Ohio...but it looked much smaller on TV. If Temple had an on campus stadium I think they would do ok attendance wise.

gosports1 Wrote:Temple should consider dropping down to 1aa and joining the colonial or patriot league or maybe exploring if there is any possibility of bringing back a10 FB. The $ they save could then be invested into their other programs.

I don't know what Temple's exact budget is for football, but most MAC schools are spending in the mid to high $3 millions on football, while most CAA schools are spending in the low $3 millions. Factor in the MAC's slightly better TV revenue, and there really isn't any cost savings, except for travel costs on the 4 conference away games (estimate about $250,000 total for that). Plus I think they're still stuck renting that NFL stadium. Games against more regional schools might help attendance, but that would be offset by the lower draw and lower ticket prices of FCS. Only about 7 FCS schools average better attendance than Temple. I'd say such a move doesn't make sense for them right now. Nobody in history has ever voluntarily moved from FBS to FCS except Holy Cross, and that was within a couple years of the creation of the split subdivisions.