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Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 01:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 06:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I think FSU and Clemson should be split up.

This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.

Well allow me to retort. What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

What?
12-08-2013 02:45 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 01:38 PM)samandrea Wrote:  I still think straight n/s is the way to go. Four southern schools and three NC schools in the south div, WFU to the north. OR swap Miami to the north and UVA to the south.

None of that does anything to correct facing teams in the other division only once every 6 years.
12-08-2013 02:46 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 01:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 06:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I think FSU and Clemson should be split up.

This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.


Anyway, let me explain. When Miami was brought into the league, they were purposely put opposite FSU for championship game aspirations. Miami has just completed their 9th season in the ACC and have yet to win the Coastal division. Right now there are only two programs in the ACC that can compete on a big time stage...FSU and Clemson. For the last two years, those schools have been far and away better than everyone else. It really hasn't been close. Those two programs continue to recruit at a very high level and until Miami and VT step up, they will continue to be at the top.

That said, the ACC can't continue to have championship games when they are perceived to be so one sided. The league has to generate excitement for the championship game.

Truthfully this would all dissappear if VT and Miami returned to form.

So because Clemson's had a few good seasons we should change the divisions? Where was Clemson for the 15-20 years before that?

It's reactionary and dumb. You also can't take away marquee football games which is exactly what this proposal would do.

-------------------

Oklahoma and Texas in the same division of the Big 12. LSU and Alabama in the same division of the SEC. It's not a big deal. And Clemson isn't nearly as good as those 4 anyways.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2013 02:49 PM by Marge Schott.)
12-08-2013 02:48 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 02:48 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 06:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I think FSU and Clemson should be split up.

This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.


Anyway, let me explain. When Miami was brought into the league, they were purposely put opposite FSU for championship game aspirations. Miami has just completed their 9th season in the ACC and have yet to win the Coastal division. Right now there are only two programs in the ACC that can compete on a big time stage...FSU and Clemson. For the last two years, those schools have been far and away better than everyone else. It really hasn't been close. Those two programs continue to recruit at a very high level and until Miami and VT step up, they will continue to be at the top.

That said, the ACC can't continue to have championship games when they are perceived to be so one sided. The league has to generate excitement for the championship game.

Truthfully this would all dissappear if VT and Miami returned to form.

So because Clemson's had a few good seasons we should change the divisions? Where was Clemson for the 15-20 years before that?

It's reactionary and dumb. You also can't take away marquee football games which is exactly what this proposal would do.

-------------------

Oklahoma and Texas in the same division of the Big 12. LSU and Alabama in the same division of the SEC. It's not a big deal. And Clemson isn't nearly as good as those 4 anyways.


Back in those days Nebraska and Colorado were on the other side in the Big 12. There were many years that they were better than Texas and Oklahoma. So this is a bad example.

Florida and Georgia are in the East opposite LSU and Alabama. Georgia came within 5 yards of beating Bama in the game last year. Florida has won more SEC championship games than both LSU and Alabama.

Like I said, these issues go away if Miami and VT step up.
12-08-2013 02:58 PM
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UofLgrad07 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
I like that the same poster keeps bitching about other people's ideas but never offers any of his own. As Benjamin Franklin said "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do".
12-08-2013 03:15 PM
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wildthing202 Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 02:29 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Three rivals, generally base on geography and history and a rotation of 5/5 within the context of two division is one of the plans that are being looked at.

FSU (Rivals - Miami, Clemson, GT) 5/5
Miami (Rivals - FSU, GT, BC) 5/5
GT (Rivals - FSU, Clemson, Miami) 5/5
Clemson (Rivals - FSU, GT, NC State) 5/5
UNC (Rivals - NC State, Duke, UVa) 5/5
NCSU (Rivals - Clemson, UNC, Wake) 5/5
UVa (Rivals - UNC, VT, Duke) 5/5
Duke (Rivals - UNC, Wake, UVa) 5/5
WF (Rivals - NC State, Duke, VT) 5/5
VT (Rivals - UVa, WF, Pitt) 5/5
Pitt (VT, Syracuse, Louisville) 5/5
Syracuse (BC, Pitt, Louisville) 5/5
BC (Miami, Syracuse, Louisville) 5/5
Louisville (BC, Syracuse, Pitt) 5/5

Louisville and BC? Why not just give WF Louisville and give VT to BC. At least then you'll have teams who actually played each other in the past 10 years.
12-08-2013 03:20 PM
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samandrea Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 02:46 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:38 PM)samandrea Wrote:  I still think straight n/s is the way to go. Four southern schools and three NC schools in the south div, WFU to the north. OR swap Miami to the north and UVA to the south.

None of that does anything to correct facing teams in the other division only once every 6 years.

Not sure what you can do about that, but geography is the best way to divide the divisions.
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2013 03:27 PM by samandrea.)
12-08-2013 03:25 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 02:58 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 02:48 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-07-2013 06:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I think FSU and Clemson should be split up.

This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.


Anyway, let me explain. When Miami was brought into the league, they were purposely put opposite FSU for championship game aspirations. Miami has just completed their 9th season in the ACC and have yet to win the Coastal division. Right now there are only two programs in the ACC that can compete on a big time stage...FSU and Clemson. For the last two years, those schools have been far and away better than everyone else. It really hasn't been close. Those two programs continue to recruit at a very high level and until Miami and VT step up, they will continue to be at the top.

That said, the ACC can't continue to have championship games when they are perceived to be so one sided. The league has to generate excitement for the championship game.

Truthfully this would all dissappear if VT and Miami returned to form.

So because Clemson's had a few good seasons we should change the divisions? Where was Clemson for the 15-20 years before that?

It's reactionary and dumb. You also can't take away marquee football games which is exactly what this proposal would do.

-------------------

Oklahoma and Texas in the same division of the Big 12. LSU and Alabama in the same division of the SEC. It's not a big deal. And Clemson isn't nearly as good as those 4 anyways.


Back in those days Nebraska and Colorado were on the other side in the Big 12. There were many years that they were better than Texas and Oklahoma. So this is a bad example.

Florida and Georgia are in the East opposite LSU and Alabama. Georgia came within 5 yards of beating Bama in the game last year. Florida has won more SEC championship games than both LSU and Alabama.

Like I said, these issues go away if Miami and VT step up.

Colorado wasn't a superstar in the Big 12 (early 90's Big 8, sure). Nebraska was only a monster the first 5 years or so. The last decade it was all OU/Texas.

In the SEC, LSU, Bama and Auburn have 6 national titles in the last 9ish years. Georgia and Florida have 2.

You keep making my point for me.
12-08-2013 04:01 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 03:25 PM)samandrea Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 02:46 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:38 PM)samandrea Wrote:  I still think straight n/s is the way to go. Four southern schools and three NC schools in the south div, WFU to the north. OR swap Miami to the north and UVA to the south.

None of that does anything to correct facing teams in the other division only once every 6 years.

Not sure what you can do about that, but geography is the best way to divide the divisions.

You get rid of divisions and go to pods. It's pretty damn simple and makes things incredibly easier.
12-08-2013 04:01 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 04:01 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 02:58 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 02:48 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.


Anyway, let me explain. When Miami was brought into the league, they were purposely put opposite FSU for championship game aspirations. Miami has just completed their 9th season in the ACC and have yet to win the Coastal division. Right now there are only two programs in the ACC that can compete on a big time stage...FSU and Clemson. For the last two years, those schools have been far and away better than everyone else. It really hasn't been close. Those two programs continue to recruit at a very high level and until Miami and VT step up, they will continue to be at the top.

That said, the ACC can't continue to have championship games when they are perceived to be so one sided. The league has to generate excitement for the championship game.

Truthfully this would all dissappear if VT and Miami returned to form.

So because Clemson's had a few good seasons we should change the divisions? Where was Clemson for the 15-20 years before that?

It's reactionary and dumb. You also can't take away marquee football games which is exactly what this proposal would do.

-------------------

Oklahoma and Texas in the same division of the Big 12. LSU and Alabama in the same division of the SEC. It's not a big deal. And Clemson isn't nearly as good as those 4 anyways.


Back in those days Nebraska and Colorado were on the other side in the Big 12. There were many years that they were better than Texas and Oklahoma. So this is a bad example.

Florida and Georgia are in the East opposite LSU and Alabama. Georgia came within 5 yards of beating Bama in the game last year. Florida has won more SEC championship games than both LSU and Alabama.

Like I said, these issues go away if Miami and VT step up.

Colorado wasn't a superstar in the Big 12 (early 90's Big 8, sure). Nebraska was only a monster the first 5 years or so. The last decade it was all OU/Texas.

In the SEC, LSU, Bama and Auburn have 6 national titles in the last 9ish years. Georgia and Florida have 2.

You keep making my point for me.


What was Bama doing before Nick Saban got there? Mediocre.

We weren't talking about national titles. We were talking conference titles. The last 10 years the SEC is about the only conference that can even chat about national titles.

This is about conference competitiveness. Both the East and West in the SEC have strong brands that have been good to great. ACC just needs Miami and VT to step up, otherwise FSU and Clemson should be split.
12-08-2013 04:12 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
Stop with the two 7-team divisions!

It doesn't solve the problem.

Facing some schools every 6 years is a problem; a huge problem. It decreases the number of marquee matchups the ACC has each year. More marquee matchups means better tv ratings and more tv revenue.

No matter how you rearrange the divisions, there's going to be a major issue with the two divisions of 7 alignment.

Nine games isn't an option as some of the marquee programs don't want it. With ND you don't need 9 games.

Just take a 4-team pod and face them off against a 3-team pod. The 4-team pod faces two additional opponents from the 2nd 4-team pod, alternating every other year. Each 3-team pod school has a permanent crossover in the other 3-team pod. They play one of the 2 remaining 3-team pod members every other year.

A few people have been discussing this type of scenario for awhile now on here. It's by far the best solution.

Here is an example of the 4 pods and potential schedules:

[Image: ACC_4_Pods.png]

[Image: ACC_4_Pod_Schedule.png]

(I may have made some scheduling errors but who cares.)
12-08-2013 04:16 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #92
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 03:15 PM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  I like that the same poster keeps bitching about other people's ideas but never offers any of his own. As Benjamin Franklin said "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain - and most fools do".

Haha, jack*ss.
12-08-2013 04:16 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 04:16 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Stop with the two 7-team divisions!

It doesn't solve the problem.

Facing some schools every 6 years is a problem; a huge problem. It decreases the number of marquee matchups the ACC has each year. More marquee matchups means better tv ratings and more tv revenue.

No matter how you rearrange the divisions, there's going to be a major issue with the two divisions of 7 alignment.

Nine games isn't an option as some of the marquee programs don't want it. With ND you don't need 9 games.

Just take a 4-team pod and face them off against a 3-team pod. The 4-team pod faces two additional opponents from the 2nd 4-team pod, alternating every other year. Each 3-team pod school has a permanent crossover in the other 3-team pod. They play one of the 2 remaining 3-team pod members every other year.

A few people have been discussing this type of scenario for awhile now on here. It's by far the best solution.

Here is an example of the 4 pods and potential schedules:

[Image: ACC_4_Pods.png]

[Image: ACC_4_Pod_Schedule.png]

(I may have made some scheduling errors but who cares.)

How do you decide the champion?
12-08-2013 04:19 PM
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Marge Schott Offline
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Post: #94
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
The same way you do now...
12-08-2013 05:19 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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Post: #95
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 05:19 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  The same way you do now...

That's 4 pods. How do you get a championship game out of that?
12-08-2013 05:48 PM
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Post: #96
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 05:48 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 05:19 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  The same way you do now...

That's 4 pods. How do you get a championship game out of that?

I believe the pods recombine into two divisions yearly with the larger pods having crossovers with each other and the smaller pods doing the same.

VT will play UVA every year though. That is the biggest problem with this scenario. The other big one is putting Clemson/GT/FSU on the same rotation.
12-08-2013 06:09 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 06:09 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 05:48 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 05:19 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  The same way you do now...

That's 4 pods. How do you get a championship game out of that?

I believe the pods recombine into two divisions yearly with the larger pods having crossovers with each other and the smaller pods doing the same.

VT will play UVA every year though. That is the biggest problem with this scenario. The other big one is putting Clemson/GT/FSU on the same rotation.

As long as the rules REQUIRE divisions, the best solution is divisions which change every year (by recombining pods into temporary divisions, as the above example shows). This does NOT result in a 4-team playoff for the ACC CG - only 2 division champs, like now.
12-08-2013 06:31 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-07-2013 03:11 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  A move back to 9 games may also be back in the cards. Pods that are differently numbered is also a possibility, I don't understand how that would work.

I proposed this once before, but here is how it would work:

You have fours groups, 2 of 4 teams, 2 of three teams. The groups of 4 are always in opposite divisions, as are the groups of 3. The groups of 3 switch every other year so that the divisions aren't static. Every crossover game in a year is against the teams in the group you are never with for a division.

Pods
Coast____ Mid-Atlantic
Wake____ Pittsburgh
Duke_____Syracuse
UNC_____ UVA
NC St____ Virginia Tech

The below switch spots every year or two years, whichever works
West_____ East
Louisville__ Boston College
Ga Tech___ Clemson
Miami_____ Florida St

If playing with 8 conference games
  • *Coast and Mid-Atlantic
    Play each team in your pod every year, and play the three teams assigned that year from the rotating pod. Play two teams cross division one year, then play the other two teams the next year. The exception being UNC and UVA, who will play each other every season.

    * East and West
    Play each team in your pod every year, and the four teams from the pod (coast/MidAtl) you play in rotation. Play two games cross division each year. Can either be play the three teams two out of every three years, or play one selected team every year and the other two teams every other year.

To use an example from each set of pods, in this scenario, North Carolina would play NC State, Duke, Wake and Virginia every year, Syracuse, Pitt, and Virginia Tech one out of every three years, and every other school in the conference every other year. Florida State, as a rotating team, would play Clemson, Boston College, and Miami every year, and every other school every other year, or Clemson and BC every year, Louisville, Miami, and Ga Tech two out of every three years, and every other school every other year.

If playing with 9 conference games
  • *Coast and Mid-Atlantic
    Play each team in your pod every year, and play the three teams assigned that year from the rotating pod. Play three games cross division each year, playing one pre-selected team each every season, and playing the other two teams two out of every three years.

    * East and West
    Play each team in your pod every year, and the four teams from the pod (coast/MidAtl) you play in rotation Play all three cross division teams each year.

To use an example from each set of pods, in this scenario, North Carolina would play NC State, Duke, Wake, and Virginia every year, , Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Pitt two out of every three years, and the other schools every other year. Florida State would play Clemson, Boston College, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Louisville every year, and every other school every other year.

To me, these options work the best. It was written up initially for a nine game conference schedule, so if made into an 8 game schedule, I'd probably switch Louisville and Boston College - with a 9 game schedule, the makeup of the east and west is irrelevant since all six will play each other every season, so I went for balance. with an 8 game schedule it does matter for rivalry reasons and I think Boston, Atlanta, and Miami seem to fit together better - but otherwise it preserves all rivalries, has everyone play everyone at least every other season, and pits many teams against their closest rivals every season..

If the goal is to separate Clemson and FSU then switch Clemson and Ga Tech or FSU and Miami.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2013 04:16 PM by adcorbett.)
12-08-2013 07:12 PM
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samandrea Offline
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Post: #99
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 04:01 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 03:25 PM)samandrea Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 02:46 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:38 PM)samandrea Wrote:  I still think straight n/s is the way to go. Four southern schools and three NC schools in the south div, WFU to the north. OR swap Miami to the north and UVA to the south.

None of that does anything to correct facing teams in the other division only once every 6 years.

Not sure what you can do about that, but geography is the best way to divide the divisions.

You get rid of divisions and go to pods. It's pretty damn simple and makes things incredibly easier.

Looks good, but I doubt it happens with 14 teams. It would work if you could rotate the pods to make up the divisions.
12-08-2013 07:22 PM
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Post: #100
RE: Divisional realignment coming? Don't shoot the messenger !!
(12-08-2013 02:45 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(12-08-2013 01:52 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Well allow me to retort. What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

What?

Never seen Pulp Fiction?
12-08-2013 07:25 PM
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