(12-07-2013 03:11 PM)westmc9th Wrote:  I had heard that the Clemson AD had spoke in an interview recently that divisional realignment may be a very big reality soon. So I got in touch with my friend and this is what I learned. The decision to put Louisville in the Atlantic was a quick decision and has no merit, which means the whole arugment that the two divisions are equal is moot. Clemson is upset it doesn't get to see North Carolina and Virginia, two founding members, but once every decade in Death Valley. FSU wants georgia Tech. At next months winter meetings some intense discussions are supposed to happen, Swofford is in favor of trying some new options which may need some NCAA approval. Such as no divisions at all, or new divisions every year. North Vs South has also been discussed with Wake forest and/or Miami in the north and Virginia in the south. A move back to 9 games may also be back in the cards. Pods that are differently numbered is also a possibility, I don't understand how that would work. There is also a push for just the best two teams to play for the conference title not just Coastal vs Atlantic.

Edit: Apparently one pod idea is two pods of 5 and one of 4 apparently was a suggestion by several ADs. If someone knows how that could work let me know
I will post some more info later, let me know what y'all think

What a fuc*ing nightmare that would be. VT would be permanent partnered with UVA. So we'd see FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC and NCST each once every 12 years at home. FUC* that! The whole reason to join the ACC was to play southern schools and close proximity schools. MD is gone and UVA and the 3 best North Carolina schools are in the other division. If that happens, I hope VT leaves.

(12-07-2013 10:00 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So is the expansion to 16 just a guess or what. So I will play ACC expands to 17 (16 + Notre Dame) in all sports but football. In football, we add Cincinnati and UConn.

Boston College
Connecticut
Syracuse
Pitt

Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Virginia

North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Duke

Clemson
George Tech
FSU
Miami

Fail on any expansion that includes Cincinnati -- set your sights higher, son.

Cincinnati does not add anything to the ACC that it doesn't already have -- doesn't expand the footprint.

Notre Dame's 5-game per season FB agreement already expands the league footprint into the midwest, and Louisville's inclusion fills in the gaps.

Set your sights higher. Hook 'em if you have to :)

(12-07-2013 04:36 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  For the newbies -- the Clemson/North Carolina football rivalry was as nasty, intense and antagonistic as any in the nation.

No it wasn't, and it's highly doubtful it ever will be.

We hate South Carolina.

We have friendly rivalries with GT and FSU.

Clemson and Maryland was a heated football rivalry in the 1970's and 1980's before they fell off the face of the earth under Krivak and Duffner. Maryland moved our games against them from College Park to Baltimore's Memorial Stadium because of the crowd interest. Until the collapse in the late 80's/early 90's Maryland had a winning record against Clemson, the only original ACC school that was anywhere close.

Clemson and UNC had one game in 1981 that mattered and that is it. Otherwise they were/are simply another team on the schedule. We would rather play Wake and NC State than UNC only because we have far more history against them.

(12-07-2013 04:36 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  My $0.02

First and foremost, this is about a 9 game schedule that includes a modified rotation for cross-division opponents -- so Clemson can get game dates from North Carolina than South Carolina currently does.

For the newbies -- the Clemson/North Carolina football rivalry was as nasty, intense and antagonistic as any in the nation.

Secondarily, I believe Clemson is kinda speaking up for Virginia who, I'm pretty sure, is not happy being assigned as Louisville's cross-dvision rivalry.

This really has nothing to do with Clemson being unhappy in a division with FSU. While we fans *think* a Clemson/FSU pair in the ACCCG would be best, remember that:

1) The original divisions were crafted so we'd see a pairing that's yet to happen -- FSU/Miami, and
2) Clemson and FSU are likely very happy with the gate $$$$ each season.

So.. in addition to adopting a 9-game schedule, what school switches places with Louisville…?

Scenario I:

- North Carolina, Virginia and Duke are tied to the hip, so rule them out.

- Virginia Tech is tied to the hip with Virginia, AND moving them to the Atlantic would create a perceived imbalance.

- North Carolina is not giving up semi-annual trips to Atlanta, so rule Georgia Tech out.

That leaves Miami or Pitt.

Moving Miami creates the same kind of perceived division imbalance that would happen with a VT move.

That leaves Pitt.

Next up -- readjusting the cross-division rivalries:

FSU - Miami
Clemson - GT
NC State - North Carolina
Wake Forest - Duke
Syracuse - Virginia
BC - Virginia Tech
Pitt - Louisville (and the ACC continues to rub WV's nose in it.)

Now, VT is reunited with its Metro brother while keeping its rivalries with Virginia, Carolina and Duke.

Virginia doesn't "lose" Louisville, but it gains an annual game with Syracuse, while keeping its annual game with Carolina and VT.

Louisville gains an annual game with North Carolina which I bet they'd prefer to an annual game with NC State, AND in most years, they'd only see FSU and Clemson in the ACCCG.

Without judgment, it's hard to know what's what when a number of people in this thread claim or imply they have inside knowedge and some of that knowledge contradicts each other.

That said, if a main concern is really changing the UVA-UofL annual cross-over and it resolves other divisional concerns, let's do it! As the new member UofL isn't going to push on this, but I'll tell you UofL's equally uninterested in this being a forced rivalry. I understand it was simply trading the Cards for the Terps and other cross-overs must remain, but the Cards would be open to change there.

(12-07-2013 10:00 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So is the expansion to 16 just a guess or what. So I will play ACC expands to 17 (16 + Notre Dame) in all sports but football. In football, we add Cincinnati and UConn.

Boston College
Connecticut
Syracuse
Pitt

Cincinnati
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Virginia

North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest
Duke

Clemson
George Tech
FSU
Miami

Wilkie - you need to get UConn out of your head. Expansion for a 16th team has to satisfy ND, FSU, GT, and Clemson first - that means something related to football and nothing related to New England. UConn does nothing for the ACC and can't get the votes - period.

(12-07-2013 11:57 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  That said, if a main concern is really changing the UVA-UofL annual cross-over and it resolves other divisional concerns, let's do it! As the new member UofL isn't going to push on this, but I'll tell you UofL's equally uninterested in this being a forced rivalry. I understand it was simply trading the Cards for the Terps and other cross-overs must remain, but the Cards would be open to change there.

Why not just flip GT and Louisville and be done with it?

(12-08-2013 12:47 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 11:57 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  That said, if a main concern is really changing the UVA-UofL annual cross-over and it resolves other divisional concerns, let's do it! As the new member UofL isn't going to push on this, but I'll tell you UofL's equally uninterested in this being a forced rivalry. I understand it was simply trading the Cards for the Terps and other cross-overs must remain, but the Cards would be open to change there.

Why not just flip GT and Louisville and be done with it?

Because GT is a better team with more ACC history in a much more desirable recruiting location. Moving them would make the divisions more unbalanced.

Agree, While I like UConn, I don't see them in the ACC. Again WVU would fit geographicly, not sure the votes would be there with the Old Guard either. That leaves the Super Slim chance of Texas leaving the Big 12 and having ND join in Football. There again I won't hold My Breath. If not any of them then whom? UCF ? No, Florida's already covered Twice Navy to offset ND? Slim chance. MAC school? No. Leaves an AAC school in region that plays Good football in a Football state Not fully covered that most likely be gone if the Big12 calls and that is Cincinnati. Ther aren't many other options left. 15 could give a pod system of 5 and allow schools to face each other more often. Just My opinion

Four pods of :
BC, Cuse, Pitt
Louisville, VT, UVA
UNC, NCST, Duke, Wake
Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

Nah, that's about as big a difference in schedule strength that you can have switching the North Carolina pod with the Southern Pod. And who wants 4 games against North Carolina opponents one year and then none the next. That's not the way to maximize recruiting of N.C. You really need to split up the North Carolina schools. UNC, Duke in one pod and Wake, NCST in another.

BC, Cuse, Louisville, Pitt
Duke, UNC, UVA, VT
NCST, Wake, Clemson
GT, FSU, Miami

I like it but Clemson would scream bloody murder if they were separated from GT and FSU. So we must keep the Southern 4 pod together

BC, Cuse, Pitt
Duke, UNC, UVA, VT
Louisville, NCST, Wake
Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

Good Enough

(12-08-2013 12:47 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 11:57 PM)CollegeCard Wrote:  That said, if a main concern is really changing the UVA-UofL annual cross-over and it resolves other divisional concerns, let's do it! As the new member UofL isn't going to push on this, but I'll tell you UofL's equally uninterested in this being a forced rivalry. I understand it was simply trading the Cards for the Terps and other cross-overs must remain, but the Cards would be open to change there.

Why not just flip GT and Louisville and be done with it?

Because the ACC needs to figure out a way to have every ACC school face every other ACC school more frequently than once every 6 years while keeping an 8-game schedule. Simply switching GT and UL wouldn't achieve that.

The ACC needs to make a radical change in its configuration. However, I don't anticipate it will actually make one.

There's not going to be an alignment that everyone will be happy with. These heated discussions are exactly why superduper sized conferences tied by money is a bad thing. You go N/S w/ Miami in the north and Virginia and VT will be pissed. As a Pitt fan I'd be pissed if Pitt was moved and UL was placed in the Coastal. I'd rather play GT, VT, and Miami on a yearly basis than BC, Clemson, and FSU simply because there is more history w/ VT and Miami than Clemson and FSU. The easiest adjustment to me would be moving GT and placing Louisville in the Coastal. But even that would upset people on this board and other boards. I'm not a fan of nine games unless Notre Dame was a conference game. As Dr. Isaly Von Yinzer stated, Pitt gave up a lot to join the league, there is no longer a BYB, Notre Dame is off the schedule, and the chances of Pitt-PSU on a yearly basis is slim to none. So let's not take away a great series w/ potential to grow into a rivalry in VT while we're at it.

I am glad a lot of you guys don't run this conference. Would be worse than it already is.

Yeah let's take the game that has generated the most interest in the ACC recently in FSU/Clemson and separate them to have that game happen twice every 12 years. Brilliant!

Also giving FSU the Georgia Tech game while taking away Clemson kind of defeats the purpose. All 3 of them should be in a division together.

Here is one system I like.



How it works
- 9 conference games
- Eight teams would be placed into permanent divisions. BC, VT, NC St, and Wake form one division with Virginia, UNC, Duke, and Cuse forming the other.
- Each division got 2 North Carolina schools, 1 northern school, and 1 Virginia school. This was done to prevent massive travel imbalances for the rotating pods (e.g. all north schools in one pod) and to preserve matchups as best as possible.
- The remaining 6 teams would be placed into two rotating pods. FSU, GT, Louisville form one pod and Miami, Clemson, Pitt form the other.
- Each pod got a Florida school, a southern school, and an ohio valley school. This was done to even out travel for each divisions.
- The rotating pods would switch divisions every year or every two years.
- Schedules for permanent division schools would be as follows:

• 3 divisional opponents (i.e. the other teams in your division)
• 3 pod opponents (i.e. the teams from the pod within your division)
• 2 rotating cross divisional opponents (i.e. two permanent division teams from the other division)
• 1 permanent cross divisional rivalry (BC-Cuse, UNC-NC St, Wake-Duke, UVA-VT)
  

- Schedules for pod members would be as follows:

• 4 divisional opponents (i.e. the teams in the division that your pod is in)
• 3 cross pod opponents (i.e. the teams in the opposite pod)
• 2 intra-pod opponents (i.e. the teams within your own pod)
  

- Divisional winners would play in ACCCG


Things I tried to keep in mind
1. Clemson and FSU should be in opposite divisions to allow for a FSU-Clemson championship game. However, they should also play annually in the regular season. This setup allows for both.

2. FSU and Miami should play annually. Putting them in separate, rotating pods allows both divisions access to a Florida school every season.

3. Most, but not all, of the major rivalries were preserved (e.g. UNC-NC St, UNC-UVA, UNC-Duke, UVA-VT, FSU-Miami, Clemson-GT, SU-BC, etc). A few rivalries were cut to make the system work.

4. Nine games won't be something FSU, Clemson, or GT want to do. However, in return for agreeing to nine conference games, those teams get annual games with each other plus Louisville, Miami, and Pitt. They also have a more balanced (travel, recruiting areas covered) divisional alignment IMO.

5. A nine game schedule with rotating pods means teams will see each other on the schedule much quicker than the current divisional format.

(12-08-2013 08:46 AM)Ragu Wrote:  I am glad a lot of you guys don't run this conference. Would be worse than it already is.

Yeah let's take the game that has generated the most interest in the ACC recently in FSU/Clemson and separate them to have that game happen twice every 12 years. Brilliant!

Also giving FSU the Georgia Tech game while taking away Clemson kind of defeats the purpose. All 3 of them should be in a division together.

I see it a little different. Yes, Clemson & FSU should play each other in the regular season, but ideally they should be able to play each other twice (in the ACC CG also). That can only happen with division realignment and, quite frankly, a change in the rules governing conference championships.

(12-08-2013 11:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 08:46 AM)Ragu Wrote:  I am glad a lot of you guys don't run this conference. Would be worse than it already is.

Yeah let's take the game that has generated the most interest in the ACC recently in FSU/Clemson and separate them to have that game happen twice every 12 years. Brilliant!

Also giving FSU the Georgia Tech game while taking away Clemson kind of defeats the purpose. All 3 of them should be in a division together.

I see it a little different. Yes, Clemson & FSU should play each other in the regular season, but ideally they should be able to play each other twice (in the ACC CG also). That can only happen with division realignment and, quite frankly, a change in the rules governing conference championships.

Then I want Miami in FSU's division. I hate that this can happen more than once a year anyways. Rivalry games should happen once a year without this do over crap.

(12-08-2013 11:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 08:46 AM)Ragu Wrote:  I am glad a lot of you guys don't run this conference. Would be worse than it already is.

Yeah let's take the game that has generated the most interest in the ACC recently in FSU/Clemson and separate them to have that game happen twice every 12 years. Brilliant!

Also giving FSU the Georgia Tech game while taking away Clemson kind of defeats the purpose. All 3 of them should be in a division together.

I see it a little different. Yes, Clemson & FSU should play each other in the regular season, but ideally they should be able to play each other twice (in the ACC CG also). That can only happen with division realignment and, quite frankly, a change in the rules governing conference championships.

(12-08-2013 11:06 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  Things I tried to keep in mind
1. Clemson and FSU should be in opposite divisions to allow for a FSU-Clemson championship game. However, they should also play annually in the regular season. This setup allows for both.

(12-07-2013 06:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I think FSU and Clemson should be split up.

This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.

(12-08-2013 11:06 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  Here is one system I like.

How it works
- 9 conference games

Auto-fail.

I still think straight n/s is the way to go. Four southern schools and three NC schools in the south div, WFU to the north. OR swap Miami to the north and UVA to the south.

(12-08-2013 01:08 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(12-07-2013 06:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  I think FSU and Clemson should be split up.

This logic is out of control.

This is what people were saying about placing FSU and Miami in separate divisions. You're just repeating history.

Well allow me to retort. What does Marcellus Wallace look like?

Anyway, let me explain. When Miami was brought into the league, they were purposely put opposite FSU for championship game aspirations. Miami has just completed their 9th season in the ACC and have yet to win the Coastal division. Right now there are only two programs in the ACC that can compete on a big time stage...FSU and Clemson. For the last two years, those schools have been far and away better than everyone else. It really hasn't been close. Those two programs continue to recruit at a very high level and until Miami and VT step up, they will continue to be at the top.

That said, the ACC can't continue to have championship games when they are perceived to be so one sided. The league has to generate excitement for the championship game.

Truthfully this would all dissappear if VT and Miami returned to form.

Three rivals, generally base on geography and history and a rotation of 5/5 within the context of two division is one of the plans that are being looked at.

FSU (Rivals - Miami, Clemson, GT) 5/5
Miami (Rivals - FSU, GT, BC) 5/5
GT (Rivals - FSU, Clemson, Miami) 5/5
Clemson (Rivals - FSU, GT, NC State) 5/5
UNC (Rivals - NC State, Duke, UVa) 5/5
NCSU (Rivals - Clemson, UNC, Wake) 5/5
UVa (Rivals - UNC, VT, Duke) 5/5
Duke (Rivals - UNC, Wake, UVa) 5/5
WF (Rivals - NC State, Duke, VT) 5/5
VT (Rivals - UVa, WF, Pitt) 5/5
Pitt (VT, Syracuse, Louisville) 5/5
Syracuse (BC, Pitt, Louisville) 5/5
BC (Miami, Syracuse, Louisville) 5/5
Louisville (BC, Syracuse, Pitt) 5/5

You could split the division's fairly willy-nilly based on this - an east-west zipper would work best.

Then you can work on Notre Dame and two partners for ND, say perhaps Texas and Navy, or Texas and Kansas, or Texas and Baylor, or Navy and someone else (you could allow ND to use the P12 games as 2 of their three rivals) lots of possibilities.

This alignment covers all the individual schools deal-breakers.

The pairs for the 5/5 split would be:

FSU/Miami
Clemson/GT
UNC/NCSU
Duke/WF
UVa/VT
Louisville/Pitt
Syracuse/BC

There are some quirks you would have to work around, and some years some folks would have an advantage over others. But I don't know how you ever cure that.

That would create the following slate:

FSU -

Miami/Clemson/GT

UNC or NC State
Duke or Wake
VT or UVa
Louisville or Pitt
Syracuse or BC

Clemson -

FSU/NC State/GT

Miami/UNC
Duke/Wake
VT/UVa
Louis/Pitt
Syracuse/BC

NC State -

Clemson/UNC/WF

FSU/Miami
GT/Duke
UVa/VT
Louis/Pitt
BC/Syr