(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

I mean a far weaker C-USA and the MWC nearly did this a decade ago with the whole "merger" thing.

(09-16-2021 03:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

2 8 team divisions basically means its 2 conferences sharing auto bids and a media deal.

Who are the other 3? Who is joining those 13 and can absorb the financial strain?

I don't think the revenue is enough to offset the expense. It would be a massive leap of faith on the part of the MWC schools.

(09-16-2021 03:20 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

I mean a far weaker C-USA and the MWC nearly did this a decade ago with the whole "merger" thing.

Didn't happen, did it? And that was back when markets mattered...

(09-16-2021 03:03 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  That Tulsa thing might have been the most confusing thing in the entire article. Don't really see Tulsa providing much value from the TV revenue perspective, and I really struggle to see any reason Tulsa would want to pay 10+ million to join the MWC, especially if North Texas was the "travel partner".

Short of going to Denver, I'm sure most flights will go through DFW as far as travel partners go. If you're attempting to shore up basketball, it makes sense to grab a usually strong Tulsa and an improving North Texas. Not saying this is what will happen, but it makes sense from the MWC perspective.

I'm just not sure how you convince Tulsa to jump, unless they're unhappy? I would think they'd need to simultaneously add Gonzaga and Wichita St./St. Mary's to make it an enticing offer.

Gee, you guys thought I was full of it saying the American would target the MWC schools first. But the metrics were really clear

My only difference is that I'd focus on Fresno State instead of Air Force. The biggest value of San Diego State is Basketball, and it work much better with another school close by like Fresno State. Also the four MWC schools (Fresno State, Boise State, Colorado State and San Diego State) account for 3/4ths of the MWC NCAA and NIT tournament berths in the last 7 years. Nevada under now Arkansas coach Mussleman accounts for half the rest, but obviously that was just a one off situation (any school can get one of those, a rising coach a one good recruiting class). I can't see San Diego State accepting if it's not All Sports, and I don't see the value of them as Football only. But the inclusion of Air Force makes me suspect they are trying that Football only routine again (definition of insanity).

UAB would be my fall back if I can't get 4 MWC schools. They make sense, as only Rice and arguably Buffalo or Miami (Ohio) have sufficient budget and resources. The latter two just don't fit. Rice I guess they just don't want. Army must have already rebuffed them.

I think it comes down to Boise State and how broken their relationship with the MWC is. From a money standpoint it's probably a break even proposition as an All Sports member (they commissioned a study last year and that was the report). If they don't move I can see it degenerating into Colorado State and UAB as they only two invited.

(09-16-2021 03:23 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

2 8 team divisions basically means its 2 conferences sharing auto bids and a media deal.

Who are the other 3? Who is joining those 13 and can absorb the financial strain?

I don't think the revenue is enough to offset the expense. It would be a massive leap of faith on the part of the MWC schools.

If ESPN holds the AAC per team contract firm at $7M annually and you are playing in a division with 7 schools you already play now, I don't see the downside.

Non revenue sports can be played entirely E/W until the championship tournament

I would do 4/4/4/4 model
East: Temple, ECU, USF, Memphis
Southwest: Tulsa, Tulane, SMU, Navy/Wichita
Mountain: Air Force, Colorado St, New Mexico, Wyoming
Pacific: Boise, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV

(09-16-2021 03:24 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:20 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

I mean a far weaker C-USA and the MWC nearly did this a decade ago with the whole "merger" thing.

Didn't happen, did it? And that was back when markets mattered...

It didn't happen because C-USA got raided further by the Big East and the leagues were no longer close to equal.

(09-16-2021 03:26 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Gee, you guys thought I was full of it saying the American would target the MWC schools first. But the metrics were really clear

My only difference is that I'd focus on Fresno State instead of Air Force. The biggest value of San Diego State is Basketball, and it work much better with another school close by like Fresno State. Also the four MWC schools (Fresno State, Boise State, Colorado State and San Diego State) account for 3/4ths of the MWC NCAA and NIT tournament berths in the last 7 years. Nevada under now Arkansas coach Mussleman accounts for half the rest, but obviously that was just a one off situation (any school can get one of those, a rising coach a one good recruiting class). I can't see San Diego State accepting if it's not All Sports, and I don't see the value of them as Football only. But the inclusion of Air Force makes me suspect they are trying that Football only routine again (definition of insanity).

UAB would be my fall back if I can't get 4 MWC schools. They make sense, as only Rice and arguably Buffalo or Miami (Ohio) have sufficient budget and resources. The latter two just don't fit. Rice I guess they just don't want. Army must have already rebuffed them.

I think it comes down to Boise State and how broken their relationship with the MWC is. From a money standpoint it's probably a break even proposition as an All Sports member (they commissioned a study last year and that was the report). If they don't move I can see it degenerating into Colorado State and UAB as they only two invited.

Nobody thought that. This isn’t even newsworthy. Everybody knew those were the best targets in the G5.

Is it realistic? Like I said before, the naysayers in the article make the most sense. Too much volatility in G Land.

Just posted this on the AAC site:

The article essentially confirms what the AAC wants: brands and/or markets. Boise (football) and Air Force (military academy) are brands. San Diego State is becoming known for being good in both football and hoops — as is UAB. Colorado State has the facilities and is located in a fast-growing state.

As a Memphis fan, I would vastly prefer this scenario than the AAC adding from C-USA/Sun Belt.

A 13-team league in both major sports. I would want UNLV (for hoops and Las Vegas) from the MWC to make it 14:

Temple
East Carolina
USF
UAB
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Air Force
Colorado State
Boise State
San Diego State
UNLV

Navy (football only)

Wichita (non-football)

That's 15 programs and gives the AAC a cushion if it loses two to the Big 12.

(09-16-2021 03:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Just posted this on the AAC site:

The article essentially confirms what the AAC wants: brands and/or markets. Boise (football) and Air Force (military academy) are brands. San Diego State is becoming known for being good in both football and hoops — as is UAB. Colorado State has the facilities and is located in a fast-growing state.

As a Memphis fan, I would vastly prefer this scenario than the AAC adding from C-USA/Sun Belt.

A 13-team league in both major sports. I would want UNLV (for hoops and Las Vegas) from the MWC to make it 14:

Temple
East Carolina
USF
UAB
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Air Force
Colorado State
Boise State
San Diego State
UNLV

Navy (football only)

Wichita (non-football)

That's 15 programs and gives the AAC a cushion if it loses two to the Big 12.

That’s a nice conference. Some good football and basketball schools there

(09-16-2021 03:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Just posted this on the AAC site:

The article essentially confirms what the AAC wants: brands and/or markets. Boise (football) and Air Force (military academy) are brands. San Diego State is becoming known for being good in both football and hoops — as is UAB. Colorado State has the facilities and is located in a fast-growing state.

As a Memphis fan, I would vastly prefer this scenario than the AAC adding from C-USA/Sun Belt.

A 13-team league in both major sports. I would want UNLV (for hoops and Las Vegas) from the MWC to make it 14:

Temple
East Carolina
USF
UAB
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Air Force
Colorado State
Boise State
San Diego State
UNLV

Navy (football only)

Wichita (non-football)

That's 15 programs and gives the AAC a cushion if it loses two to the Big 12.

Does 14 work with travel or would you need 16 to cement the E/W divisions and truly make travel feasible?

(09-16-2021 03:24 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:20 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

I mean a far weaker C-USA and the MWC nearly did this a decade ago with the whole "merger" thing.

Didn't happen, did it? And that was back when markets mattered...

The CUSA West schools involved are not active dumpster fires.

Tulane/SMU/Memphis/Tulsa (not this year, LOL) are VERY different right now in football in terms of wins/TV ratings than they were back then.

(09-16-2021 03:54 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Just posted this on the AAC site:

The article essentially confirms what the AAC wants: brands and/or markets. Boise (football) and Air Force (military academy) are brands. San Diego State is becoming known for being good in both football and hoops — as is UAB. Colorado State has the facilities and is located in a fast-growing state.

As a Memphis fan, I would vastly prefer this scenario than the AAC adding from C-USA/Sun Belt.

A 13-team league in both major sports. I would want UNLV (for hoops and Las Vegas) from the MWC to make it 14:

Temple
East Carolina
USF
UAB
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Air Force
Colorado State
Boise State
San Diego State
UNLV

Navy (football only)

Wichita (non-football)

That's 15 programs and gives the AAC a cushion if it loses two to the Big 12.

That’s a nice conference. Some good football and basketball schools there

No doubt, C-Jim. I would be fine with it. A quality combo of football, hoops, locations, academics, history, etc. I hope it happens.

(09-16-2021 03:54 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:52 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Just posted this on the AAC site:

The article essentially confirms what the AAC wants: brands and/or markets. Boise (football) and Air Force (military academy) are brands. San Diego State is becoming known for being good in both football and hoops — as is UAB. Colorado State has the facilities and is located in a fast-growing state.

As a Memphis fan, I would vastly prefer this scenario than the AAC adding from C-USA/Sun Belt.

A 13-team league in both major sports. I would want UNLV (for hoops and Las Vegas) from the MWC to make it 14:

Temple
East Carolina
USF
UAB
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Air Force
Colorado State
Boise State
San Diego State


Navy (football only)

Wichita (non-football)

That's 15 programs and gives the AAC a cushion if it loses two to the Big 12.

Does 14 work with travel or would you need 16 to cement the E/W divisions and truly make travel feasible?

I don't think UNLV was mentioned, so we'd actually be a 13 football teams oddly enough. West in bold. Travel in "division" doesn't past Oklahoma.

I wonder if Dodds is just making up the list on the fly. NObody seriously believes UTSA or FAU can possibly be on the list. That makes me suspicious, that he only heard UAB and Boise State, guessed the rest. (Well maybe that is the list of schools that he knows contacted the AAC with interest)

The Big 12 rumor is perfect bomb to throw even if they have no intention of expanding further anytime soon. It paralyses the AAC as far as getting schools like Boise State and thus MWC schools on board. Classic move to divide an conquer.

I don’t get the love affair with Boise. I really don’t. They did such a crap job handling their business the last time it almost went down, and it went to a lawsuit to get them to pay up. This conference is STILL going there?

Swing for AFA and SDSU football. Grab UAB. See what you can do for VCU hoops. I’d be happy with that.

If C-USA gets by with just losing UTSA, UAB, and FAU. There is a chance for survival. But if they lose LaTech, USM, Marshall, WKU then you lose your basketball and football schools. Then it’s over.

(09-16-2021 04:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I don’t get the love affair with Boise. I really don’t. They did such a crap job handling their business the last time it almost went down, and it went to a lawsuit to get them to pay up. This conference is STILL going there?

Swing for AFA and SDSU football. Grab UAB. See what you can do for VCU hoops. I’d be happy with that.

They have to swing for Boise State and they probably need San Diego State in All Sports. Otherwise they are looking at a huge downgrade in the media package with ESPN invoking the membership clause.

Going for UAB and some other eastern school means you are throwing in the towel and telling your members to start cuttung their budgets by $5m or so a year.

I think ESPN and Aresco are working together on this, they want to poach from non-ESPN properties. The MW is with FOX and CBS. This way it will give ESPN more late night content and will help solidify the AAC as the 6th best league. I am still not sure the MW teams go without certain guarantees on the value and deal of the TV contract, particularly how many games will be on ESPN+. We shall see.

(09-16-2021 03:24 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:20 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-16-2021 03:15 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  A non Power 5 conference that stretches coast to coast? This feels like a posturing article to me, because it makes no sense long term.

I mean a far weaker C-USA and the MWC nearly did this a decade ago with the whole "merger" thing.

Didn't happen, did it? And that was back when markets mattered...

Only because the idiots in charge thought a merger would mean 2 auto-bids for basketball. I mean---it just goes to show you how league commissioners can often simply not have a clue.