(08-15-2013 03:40 PM)Dasville Wrote:  FSU is a perfect example of making a "proactive" move. They voted down the initial increase in exit fee by the ACC with the addition of ND but sought accurate information. They sought true information from the ACC and the networks. They were ready to walk. They didn't, based on accurate information.

They didn't make a hasty move, and now will benefit from it.

I'm not sure what accurate information was given or not. We are still waiting on any indication that an ACC Network is even agreed upon by presidents to begin to be initiated. That was a big part of this whole thing staying in the ACC thing: more money.

I'm not sure FSU wouldn't have benefited just as much in a different conference, too.

(08-15-2013 02:38 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  So Maryland was last in student support in the ACC, not even providing athletes three meals a day.

Pretty sure you can only provide one meal per day per NCAA regulations. It's one of those things the smaller schools likely opposed many moons ago, like not allowing schools to put players names on the scoreboard during official visits and limiting the length of the media guide to a set page number. Stupid crap.

(08-16-2013 02:58 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 02:38 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  So Maryland was last in student support in the ACC, not even providing athletes three meals a day.

Pretty sure you can only provide one meal per day per NCAA regulations. It's one of those things the smaller schools likely opposed many moons ago, like not allowing schools to put players names on the scoreboard during official visits and limiting the length of the media guide to a set page number. Stupid crap.

This may sound stupid to some people, but if you're a 300-lb lineman who is forced to eat the regular school cafeteria food twice a day, this is a real issue!

I think that Florida State was open to offers, but the Big Ten wouldn't (for academic reasons, which was stupid in my opinion, but still there) and the SEC wouldn't (not interested in more expansion yet and looking for new markets if it is). That only left the Big 12 and the ACC was still offering a better deal than the Big 12, especially when you added in geography and travel costs.

Given those factors, Florida State was better off making the ACC itself more secure which meant a grant of rights.

(08-16-2013 02:46 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  The Big's projections are way to optimistic. They were made to say what they wanted to hear. They were not made to show the true facts. They were made to hook the target schools. And guess, who bite the two target schools that were facing financial failure.

Well Rutgers desperately wanted a lifeboat off the titanic. They would've joined anything, even the B12 just like WVU.

Maryland was the stupid one.

BTW, a report out today in Sports Business Daily says that FS1 is settling with most carriers for the 23¢ per subscriber that they were getting for Speed, not the 80¢ they were hoping for. Again, mull that over. FS1 has legitimate programing lined up and is getting 23¢. I would not be surprised if the BTN actually had to cut its payout per team when RU and MD get full shares in 2010....of course, by then it will be impossible to know because so much will have changed, including the numbers.

(08-16-2013 04:52 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think that Florida State was open to offers, but the Big Ten wouldn't (for academic reasons, which was stupid in my opinion, but still there) and the SEC wouldn't (not interested in more expansion yet and looking for new markets if it is). That only left the Big 12 and the ACC was still offering a better deal than the Big 12, especially when you added in geography and travel costs.

Given those factors, Florida State was better off making the ACC itself more secure which meant a grant of rights.

Florida State would have been even more monumentally stupid than Maryland if it went to the Big Ten. The B12 was never, ever seriously considered. The only thing they would have entertained was an SEC offer, which was never coming thanks to UF. Everything else was pure kook, which apparently even one of their trustees had succumb to, but it was pure kook none the less.

(08-16-2013 05:46 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 04:52 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think that Florida State was open to offers, but the Big Ten wouldn't (for academic reasons, which was stupid in my opinion, but still there) and the SEC wouldn't (not interested in more expansion yet and looking for new markets if it is). That only left the Big 12 and the ACC was still offering a better deal than the Big 12, especially when you added in geography and travel costs.

Given those factors, Florida State was better off making the ACC itself more secure which meant a grant of rights.

Florida State would have been even more monumentally stupid than Maryland if it went to the Big Ten. The B12 was never, ever seriously considered. The only thing they would have entertained was an SEC offer, which was never coming thanks to UF. Everything else was pure kook, which apparently even one of their trustees had succumb to, but it was pure kook none the less.

Fairly ridiculous comment.

(08-16-2013 11:35 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 05:46 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 04:52 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think that Florida State was open to offers, but the Big Ten wouldn't (for academic reasons, which was stupid in my opinion, but still there) and the SEC wouldn't (not interested in more expansion yet and looking for new markets if it is). That only left the Big 12 and the ACC was still offering a better deal than the Big 12, especially when you added in geography and travel costs.

Given those factors, Florida State was better off making the ACC itself more secure which meant a grant of rights.

Florida State would have been even more monumentally stupid than Maryland if it went to the Big Ten. The B12 was never, ever seriously considered. The only thing they would have entertained was an SEC offer, which was never coming thanks to UF. Everything else was pure kook, which apparently even one of their trustees had succumb to, but it was pure kook none the less.

Fairly ridiculous comment.

Not ridiculous at all. "Monumentally stupid" may not be strong enough. Ridiculous is to think that would have been a good idea in any way for FSU. Stupid is to think the kook rumors had any credibility at all.

(08-17-2013 12:45 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 11:35 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Fairly ridiculous comment.

Not ridiculous at all. "Monumentally stupid" may not be strong enough.

IDK, even FSU alone in the B1G has some attraction. Their state produces enough talent that they don't really have to worry about recruiting other states and a lot of the cold B1G state athletes may want to go to university some where warm but still play in the B1G.

Financially, until the ACC gets a network up and running and making a profit, the B1G will be making more money. Fortunately, FSU just signed a Duke AD, so they're not going any where.

(08-14-2013 12:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So basically, when you take their higher Big Ten revenue...
...then subtract their high loan payments...

basically, Maryland's athletic budget = G5 normal.

Maryland = Temple (no offense, Owl fans!)

We're not in massive debt.

A little common sense should make any businessman that reads the Big Ten revenue projections from a decade away skeptical at best. I realize articles like this get written to calm the restless natives. I however have a difficult time believing any university leader is getting giddy about "projections" a decade away from fruition.

Heraclitus wrote that "the only constant is change." For anyone to believe the BTN will continue to lay golden eggs is shortsighted or fool hearted at best. For example, a change to ala carte programming and conference networks, that are forced upon cable subscribers, would be a thing of the past. And that doesn't consider technological advances that will make present media and communication platforms obsolete in a few short years.

Maryland is banking (no pun intended) its future on what I believe are some overly optimistic projections. With that being said, fiscal irresponsibility in the past has left their leadership with little choice.
Though I don't agree with their decision to leave The ACC, and jaded reasoning behind it, I am happy they did so.
CJ

(08-14-2013 01:17 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  Does the state step in at any point?

How long will they let UMD waste money?

I don't know what the state could do, other than pay off some of their debt. No matter what they are in debt well over 100 mil. Maybe Obama could give them some of his personal stash.

(08-16-2013 04:52 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think that Florida State was open to offers, but the Big Ten wouldn't (for academic reasons, which was stupid in my opinion, but still there) and the SEC wouldn't (not interested in more expansion yet and looking for new markets if it is). That only left the Big 12 and the ACC was still offering a better deal than the Big 12, especially when you added in geography and travel costs.

Given those factors, Florida State was better off making the ACC itself more secure which meant a grant of rights.

I'm calling BS on the FSU to B1G nixed due to academics. FSU is ahead of UNL and has a rich football history over the last 30 years. If FSU was ever seriously considered, thB1G would have offered.

I could believe that the B1G would want other east coast teams before taking FSU, but to say that FSU was out based on academics is just crazy. Easily, FSU would be worth more than Maryland and Rutgers combined. FL population exceeds both states' population combined and FL is football crazy, unlike NJ or MD.

One quick note on the payouts: The B1G payout is the total payout, or $25MM. This includes TV, BTN, Bowl, NCAA tourney and any other conference sources. This number is compared to the ACC TV deal only, or $15MM, while the ACC total payout was >$24MM. The ACC will payout an additional $4MM this season per the TV deal. The ACC could actually exceed teh B1G in total payout for 2013/2014 academic year!

Also, quick note on BTN estimate, the low side of the BTN estimate by Delaney was around $30MM/year. This was puffery, too, as the BTN has no NYC carriage and is already carried in NJ. The theory demands that NJ now make the BTN a premium and that NYC be forced to carry BTN if they want YES (Yankees network), which is NOT carried in full in NY or NYC. The BTN is fighting uphill battles on all fronts and the expectations are too high to reach the $30MM/year mark let alone the $40MM/year mark as delineated by Crazy Paco (hat tip to CP).

The ACC is in a good position. If the ACCN becomes a reality, which it will because ESPN is NOT foolish and if they smell money, they will act, then the payouts will increase more.

(08-17-2013 01:53 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(08-14-2013 12:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So basically, when you take their higher Big Ten revenue...
...then subtract their high loan payments...

basically, Maryland's athletic budget = G5 normal.

Maryland = Temple (no offense, Owl fans!)

We're not in massive debt.

TRUE. I only meant from a net revenue point of view (and geographically similar). If the ACC replaced the Maryland "gap" with Temple someday, that would be ok with me.

(08-19-2013 04:16 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 01:53 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(08-14-2013 12:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So basically, when you take their higher Big Ten revenue...
...then subtract their high loan payments...

basically, Maryland's athletic budget = G5 normal.

Maryland = Temple (no offense, Owl fans!)

We're not in massive debt.

TRUE. I only meant from a net revenue point of view (and geographically similar). If the ACC replaced the Maryland "gap" with Temple someday, that would be ok with me.

We beat them in football and basketball in the same year with zero recruiting and conference advantage. Despite our shortcomings in football historically, I think we could definitely compete in the ACC.

(08-18-2013 11:05 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(08-16-2013 04:52 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think that Florida State was open to offers, but the Big Ten wouldn't (for academic reasons, which was stupid in my opinion, but still there) and the SEC wouldn't (not interested in more expansion yet and looking for new markets if it is). That only left the Big 12 and the ACC was still offering a better deal than the Big 12, especially when you added in geography and travel costs.

Given those factors, Florida State was better off making the ACC itself more secure which meant a grant of rights.

I'm calling BS on the FSU to B1G nixed due to academics. FSU is ahead of UNL and has a rich football history over the last 30 years. If FSU was ever seriously considered, thB1G would have offered.

I could believe that the B1G would want other east coast teams before taking FSU, but to say that FSU was out based on academics is just crazy. Easily, FSU would be worth more than Maryland and Rutgers combined. FL population exceeds both states' population combined and FL is football crazy, unlike NJ or MD.

I call a little BS as well. Sure, Nebraska was in the AAU when they were admitted into the Big Ten, but even then, Big Ten members were already planning to vote Nebraska out of the AAU. FSU, per US News, is higher than Nebraska and only ~10(?) spots behind the lowest-ranked non-Nebraska school(s). FSU also has freshman stats on par or better than literally half of the current Big Ten's makeup.

Would've showing legit interest in FSU helped the Big Ten loosen up UVA and GT (I do believe there was some degree of discussion going on between these parties)? I don't see how it wouldn't have.

(08-18-2013 11:15 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  One quick note on the payouts: The B1G payout is the total payout, or $25MM. This includes TV, BTN, Bowl, NCAA tourney and any other conference sources. This number is compared to the ACC TV deal only, or $15MM, while the ACC total payout was >$24MM. The ACC will payout an additional $4MM this season per the TV deal. The ACC could actually exceed teh B1G in total payout for 2013/2014 academic year!

Also, quick note on BTN estimate, the low side of the BTN estimate by Delaney was around $30MM/year. This was puffery, too, as the BTN has no NYC carriage and is already carried in NJ. The theory demands that NJ now make the BTN a premium and that NYC be forced to carry BTN if they want YES (Yankees network), which is NOT carried in full in NY or NYC. The BTN is fighting uphill battles on all fronts and the expectations are too high to reach the $30MM/year mark let alone the $40MM/year mark as delineated by Crazy Paco (hat tip to CP).

The ACC is in a good position. If the ACCN becomes a reality, which it will because ESPN is NOT foolish and if they smell money, they will act, then the payouts will increase more.

I also call BS on this.

First of all, the Big Ten will be renegotiating their tv deals in the next few years. So comparing the ACC's new deal with the Big Ten's old one is stupid. They will undoubtedly see a nice increase. Can we agree it'd at least be in the $5-10M/year/school range? I mean, the ACC saw an increase in average tv payouts from something like $7M to $19-20M in the last 3-4 years.

Secondly, the ACC is not going to receive $19+M per team from the tv deal in 2013-2014. That's simply the average payout, not the yearly payout. It's probably going to be around $12-15M because I think it was only around $10-12M last year.

Penultimately, I think your conference payouts are incorrect. The ACC was at $16.9M, the SEC at >$20.7M and the Big Ten at $25.7M.

Lastly, there is no guarantee there will ever be an ACC Network. A network has been an option for the last 4 years or so and has NEVER been seriously discussed by the conference. Even now they don't act like it's a pressing issue/need.

(08-19-2013 05:09 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(08-19-2013 04:16 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-17-2013 01:53 AM)JHG722 Wrote:  

(08-14-2013 12:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So basically, when you take their higher Big Ten revenue...
...then subtract their high loan payments...

basically, Maryland's athletic budget = G5 normal.

Maryland = Temple (no offense, Owl fans!)

We're not in massive debt.

TRUE. I only meant from a net revenue point of view (and geographically similar). If the ACC replaced the Maryland "gap" with Temple someday, that would be ok with me.

We beat them in football and basketball in the same year with zero recruiting and conference advantage. Despite our shortcomings in football historically, I think we could definitely compete in the ACC.

I don't mind Temple, too much. I like the basketball. I like the large enrollment. I like the city/region it's located within. I like how football has shown life these last few years although, in general, I don't like your football (attendance, stadium, etc.).

At present you're a no-go. In 5-10 years? Who knows. But you have to be a respectable football program during that entire timeframe or it won't work. That's basically what Rutgers did. Pretty lousy history but a respectable last decade in a good market and poof. And you guys at least have a basketball program which they don't.

Much of my Temple interest comes from trying to fill in that I-95 corridor that's now largely empty from D.C. to CT. But only a good/respectable program will actually help do that. If the ACC never creates a network Temple loses a lot of its potential luster.

We're aware. The school has grown significantly over the last few years, especially in students living on campus and going to games. My freshman year we had maybe 100-200 in the student section. My senior year, we had 7K-12K depending on the game. That's serious growth in just a few years. We put in $10M to improve the football practice facility. We have the best recruiting class in program history. We know it's going to take time much like it did with Rutgers. People dont realize that we're trying to make up for many decades of university indifference towards big time football.

Look at all those empty seats! No wonder Maryland is broke and operating in the RED!!!!

You should've seen the student section. It was me, my friend from GW and two students from George Mason by halftime.