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(04-17-2018 10:38 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 09:42 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 07:44 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:39 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Am I the only one who thinks the West End is an idea that too many suburban soccer fans aren’t ready for?

Playing devil's advocate, the soccer moms in West Chester and Mason think Clifton is no better than South Central LA yet that didn't stop them from bringing little Aiden, Brayden and Kayden to Nippert for FCC the past couple years.

Yep, it's an interesting crowd. I was at the UC vs. Memphis baseball game the afternoon of the FC home opener. Lots of young families were arriving Uptown early and walking our campus. Financial remuneration for UC aside, I think the soccer club's presence has achieved something tangible that no amount of paid advertising could generate--getting people to UC who drive past Uptown. And creating an opportunity to see firsthand one of the most amazing transformations of any urban university in America. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I've had a number of folks tell me they had no idea what a great campus we have.

Questions for the soccer fans here. Is FC underbuilding at 21,000 seats? Aren't other MLS cities drawing 40,000 plus on a good night? Will the West End site be expandable?...accommodate traffic and parking for an incremental 10,000 - 20,000 fans should they need to expand? I'd hate to think we'd have to live through this fiasco again in five years when FCC decides the stadium is too small.

40,000+ is only being hit by the top clubs on the top nights. Atlanta FC has been drawing numbers like that but, being a new organization, it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts. Seattle, likewise, has sold out the Seahawks stadium for a few matches.

But for the most part, 20,000 is right in line with the majority of clubs. There's a big concern right now that attendance will dip because ticket prices go up--which is a really dumb argument because, uhm, we'll be in a drastically better league, with better players, and better games.

Not sure about expansion though. They seemed to find a good spot so far. I wouldn't put it past them to do it again.

Yep, I actually hope for their sake they've thought about expansion. Again, I'm not a soccer guy but I've never seen Cincinnati embrace any minor league team the way this area has taken to FC in such a short time. I have to believe the popularity of soccer will continue to grow and our area benefits from having another major league offering.

Heck, by the time they need it, PBS may be available. Maybe that's in their business plan 5-10 years out...

(04-17-2018 09:42 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 07:44 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:39 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Am I the only one who thinks the West End is an idea that too many suburban soccer fans aren’t ready for?

Playing devil's advocate, the soccer moms in West Chester and Mason think Clifton is no better than South Central LA yet that didn't stop them from bringing little Aiden, Brayden and Kayden to Nippert for FCC the past couple years.

Yep, it's an interesting crowd. I was at the UC vs. Memphis baseball game the afternoon of the FC home opener. Lots of young families were arriving Uptown early and walking our campus. Financial remuneration for UC aside, I think the soccer club's presence has achieved something tangible that no amount of paid advertising could generate--getting people to UC who drive past Uptown. And creating an opportunity to see firsthand one of the most amazing transformations of any urban university in America. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I've had a number of folks tell me they had no idea what a great campus we have.

Questions for the soccer fans here. Is FC underbuilding at 21,000 seats? Aren't other MLS cities drawing 40,000 plus on a good night? Will the West End site be expandable?...accommodate traffic and parking for an incremental 10,000 - 20,000 fans should they need to expand? I'd hate to think we'd have to live through this fiasco again in five years when FCC decides the stadium is too small.

Good question. I'm in a soccer-crazed city (Portland) and attend about 1/2 of the Timbers matches. It's the success of the Timbers that make me excited for soccer in the West End. The Timbers play in an old civic stadium smack dab in the city's (you guessed it) West End. The stadium has been retrofitted for soccer and it seats about 22,000. It's completely surrounded by high-rise apartments, bars, restaurants, and parks (imagine Mt. Adams rising above it, a la the Broadway Commons area). It's a pain in the ass to park there, but people know that. They close down the street in front and have corrals for about 1,000 bikes. Many people take public transit, and others simply plan their day around the matches, parking and walking a good distance.

In terms of capacity, every match has sold out since they've been in MLS (2011) and they have 12,000 people on the season ticket waiting list. They're expanding this year, but only by about 4,500. They realize that at 40,000 there would likely be matches that only draw 30K, and that changes the demand perception and takes away some of the intimacy that makes the stadium and experience so incredible. So, 26,000 seems about right. Then, there's the cost of tickets. The cheapest ticket this year, and this is only for some matches, is $29. For Seattle, the cheapest ticket is $52. If FC Cincy enters MLS, you'll definitely see more people jump on board, but you'll also see a steep rise in prices, which will make it tougher for some. I think 21K should be a minimum for their stadium, but they don't need any more than 30K in my opinion. I can't wait to get out there once the stadium is built.

The Enquirer speculated that the rush for council vote was prompted by the need to make this round of expansions, thus avoiding a more crowded and competitive field during the next round.

Thinking like the MLS, why would I not hold off for this next round if I think the candidates will only get better? I won’t be surprised if Cincinnati is forced to wait - which is effectively a rejection.

About the West End...I spent 15 years working in Butler County while living in the inner city. Over the years I heard their negative comments and attitudes. We both thought each others’ communities were wastelands. The Butler folks I worked with would travel into the city only begrudgingly.

(04-17-2018 08:39 AM)AeroCat Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 07:44 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Playing devil's advocate, the soccer moms in West Chester and Mason think Clifton is no better than South Central LA yet that didn't stop them from bringing little Aiden, Brayden and Kayden to Nippert for FCC the past couple years.

Don't even get me started. I grew up in West Chester and the way they talked about Cincinnati you would think it was Beirut.

My wife made me go to her family's all white Pentecostal church in Hamilton one time while we were living in East Walnut Hills and the pastor says at one point, "As they say in Cincinnati, it's all good in the hood". I involuntarily said, "WTF does that mean?" and the guy in front of me turned around and scowled.

Bless your heart, as you were clearly doing the Lord's work in that situation.

(04-17-2018 11:51 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  About the West End...I spent 15 years working in Butler County while living in the inner city. Over the years I heard their negative comments and attitudes. We both thought each others’ communities were wastelands. The Butler folks I worked with would travel into the city only begrudgingly.

I have no doubt this is true but I think times have a changed a ton and the younger families are much more open to those areas now.

Harping back to the disdain this board had for FCC when this all started...is anyone still holding a grudge? Right now it looks like FCC will make the MLS and move out of Nippert within the next few years. The notches are supposed to be removed. We'll hardly know they were ever there. What's the downside been?

(04-17-2018 04:50 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Harping back to the disdain this board had for FCC when this all started...is anyone still holding a grudge? Right now it looks like FCC will make the MLS and move out of Nippert within the next few years. The notches are supposed to be removed. We'll hardly know they were ever there. What's the downside been?

I was completely thrilled with FCC and the prospects of them playing at Nippert as this all began. My enthusiasm for the sport hasn't waned, but my respect for FCC leadership sure has - they were ******** in the way they dealt with the community.

(04-17-2018 04:50 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Harping back to the disdain this board had for FCC when this all started...is anyone still holding a grudge? Right now it looks like FCC will make the MLS and move out of Nippert within the next few years. The notches are supposed to be removed. We'll hardly know they were ever there. What's the downside been?

Did they get the bid or not? I haven't seen anything official from MLS.

(04-17-2018 05:30 PM)Not Duane Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 04:50 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Harping back to the disdain this board had for FCC when this all started...is anyone still holding a grudge? Right now it looks like FCC will make the MLS and move out of Nippert within the next few years. The notches are supposed to be removed. We'll hardly know they were ever there. What's the downside been?

Did they get the bid or not? I haven't seen anything official from MLS.

Very, very likely. Most believe the MLS was waiting for FCC to secure a stadium site before moving forward with expansion. Seeing that FCC pushed a vote on the matter yesterday, and the MLS board met today and discussed expansion, there is a lot of, ahem, smoke to the rumor.

(04-17-2018 04:50 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  Harping back to the disdain this board had for FCC when this all started...is anyone still holding a grudge? Right now it looks like FCC will make the MLS and move out of Nippert within the next few years. The notches are supposed to be removed. We'll hardly know they were ever there. What's the downside been?

I hope FCC gets an MLS team, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they got a team and it wouldn’t surprise me if MLS passes them by.

I’m not sold on the West End. Newport was probably the best location but it’s unclear how much Newport actually wanted them.

Nobody has better explained FCC negotiating shenanigans than Rath. FCC is not above criticism.

I think p doc said it well:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinn.../526080002

...so there's still no official word on the bid as far as I can tell. And now the west end is in an uproar with a council member getting impeached.

Is MLS going to force us to break ground before they announce whether we have the bid or not?

I’ll be interested to see how much noise the West End will continue to make.

Whether Cincinnati is selected or not, the MLS has rivaled the Big 12 in turning expansion into a circus sideshow. I can't even imagine the NFL or MLB doing anything similar--unclear expansion strategy and repeated missed deadlines.

For our city and those who love soccer I still hope it happens. But some are even questioning the long term viability of MLS absent a national TV deal. A major league sport can only survive so long on new franchise fees. Will it follow the path of Cincinnati's other "major league" entry, the Stingers in the upstart WHA, the now defunct rival to the NHL?

FC must also share some blame in terms of expectation management. Berding always stops just short of assuring league entry with each completed process step locally. That rhetoric had many believing the Tuesday meeting of MLS was to award Cincinnati a franchise.

(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Whether Cincinnati is selected or not, the MLS has rivaled the Big 12 in turning expansion into a circus sideshow. I can't even imagine the NFL or MLB doing anything similar--unclear expansion strategy and repeated missed deadlines.

For our city and those who love soccer I still hope it happens. But some are even questioning the long term viability of MLS absent a national TV deal. A major league sport can only survive so long on new franchise fees. Will it follow the path of Cincinnati's other "major league" entry, the Stingers in the upstart WHA, the now defunct rival to the NHL?

FC must also share some blame in terms of expectation management. Berding always stops just short of assuring league entry with each completed process step locally. That rhetoric had many believing the Tuesday meeting of MLS was to award Cincinnati a franchise.

Ummmmm...were you in hibernation when the LA Football stuff was going on?

(04-19-2018 01:08 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(04-19-2018 10:33 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Whether Cincinnati is selected or not, the MLS has rivaled the Big 12 in turning expansion into a circus sideshow. I can't even imagine the NFL or MLB doing anything similar--unclear expansion strategy and repeated missed deadlines.

For our city and those who love soccer I still hope it happens. But some are even questioning the long term viability of MLS absent a national TV deal. A major league sport can only survive so long on new franchise fees. Will it follow the path of Cincinnati's other "major league" entry, the Stingers in the upstart WHA, the now defunct rival to the NHL?

FC must also share some blame in terms of expectation management. Berding always stops just short of assuring league entry with each completed process step locally. That rhetoric had many believing the Tuesday meeting of MLS was to award Cincinnati a franchise.

Ummmmm...were you in hibernation when the LA Football stuff was going on?

I moved to Portland at the time MLB all but promised the Montreal franchise to the city. The state pledged $150 million to build a stadium (that money still awaits), but MLB was simply using Portland before moving the Expos to D.C., their preferred location all along. This garbage happens in every sport.

(04-17-2018 10:38 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 09:42 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(04-17-2018 07:44 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:39 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  Am I the only one who thinks the West End is an idea that too many suburban soccer fans aren’t ready for?

Playing devil's advocate, the soccer moms in West Chester and Mason think Clifton is no better than South Central LA yet that didn't stop them from bringing little Aiden, Brayden and Kayden to Nippert for FCC the past couple years.

Yep, it's an interesting crowd. I was at the UC vs. Memphis baseball game the afternoon of the FC home opener. Lots of young families were arriving Uptown early and walking our campus. Financial remuneration for UC aside, I think the soccer club's presence has achieved something tangible that no amount of paid advertising could generate--getting people to UC who drive past Uptown. And creating an opportunity to see firsthand one of the most amazing transformations of any urban university in America. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I've had a number of folks tell me they had no idea what a great campus we have.

Questions for the soccer fans here. Is FC underbuilding at 21,000 seats? Aren't other MLS cities drawing 40,000 plus on a good night? Will the West End site be expandable?...accommodate traffic and parking for an incremental 10,000 - 20,000 fans should they need to expand? I'd hate to think we'd have to live through this fiasco again in five years when FCC decides the stadium is too small.

40,000+ is only being hit by the top clubs on the top nights. Atlanta FC has been drawing numbers like that but, being a new organization, it'll be interesting to see how long it lasts. Seattle, likewise, has sold out the Seahawks stadium for a few matches.

But for the most part, 20,000 is right in line with the majority of clubs. There's a big concern right now that attendance will dip because ticket prices go up--which is a really dumb argument because, uhm, we'll be in a drastically better league, with better players, and better games.

Not sure about expansion though. They seemed to find a good spot so far. I wouldn't put it past them to do it again.

I figure FCC will pull a UC and do the club/suite thing, making their attendance money there.

Remember, the real money is in the tv rights MLS owns regarding anything soccer in the US. An MLS franchise is merely the vehicle to get that.

Off topic to this thread but can someone tell me what the notches are for? I ask because there's a video board running the full length of the field not more than a few feet from the field. I guess I assumed they needed that extra field space but it's totally blocked.

(04-21-2018 06:22 PM)Racinejake Wrote:  Off topic to this thread but can someone tell me what the notches are for? I ask because there's a video board running the full length of the field not more than a few feet from the field. I guess I assumed they needed that extra field space but it's totally blocked.

The notches were for one reason only. A major UC donor - doss - demanded and paid for them. Truly a shame.