(12-20-2023 05:28 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 05:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 01:30 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:33 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  There should be a rule against players opting out of bowl games.

There should be a rule against 6-6 teams in bowl games.

Why?

Your remote broken? No Lifetime tv on your cable package that you could watch instead? TV stuck on ESPN 2?

I'm old enough to remember when bowls were a reward for a good season, not an almost everyone gets ribbons award.

Are you old enough to remember when really good teams didn't get to go because the conferences only let you bowl every other year?

I'm old enough to remember 9-2 teams getting left out of bowls.

They're exhibition games. Even at the beginning it was never an effort to *reward* these hard working young men who achieved the best records of the season. It was an effort to draw some tourists. Now it's an effort to fill some programming time.

If you don't like watching 6-6 teams or teams with backups (because the starters opted out) or interim coaches or whatever I do have a solution for you. Actually two solutions! Either will work.You could:

1. Just think of it as a 13 game regular season (for some teams). Just another football game more or less like other OOC games, but limited to (slightly) better teams and at a neutral site (usually). Enjoy the chaos. If it's not your team, a random OT game can be really fun tv. It's still college football, there will be lots of drama and impressive athletic feats and heartbreak and triumph and sometimes even joy.

or

2. Find that missing remote control, flip over to Lifetime and enjoy the holiday movie of the week if you like that better than football between 6-6 teams. Or heck, I bet you could still find whatever passes for programming that would normally be airing on ESPN or ESPN 2 (I assume they move the arguing talking heads over to like ESPN News or something). Or turn the tv off and read a book. Nobody makes anyone watch bowl games on tv. You don't have to watch if it offends your sensibilities.

One year Pitt had a 9-1 record and did not get invited to a bowl. The loss came on a trick play by Navy coach Wayne Hardin; he had one of the ends start trotting off the field, and Pitt expected him to go to the sidelines to be replaced. Instead, he caught a pass and scored a TD that put Navy ahead for the win. The play was afterward referred to as The Lonesome End. Wideouts followed a year or so later.

(12-20-2023 05:28 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 05:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 01:30 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:33 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  There should be a rule against players opting out of bowl games.

There should be a rule against 6-6 teams in bowl games.

Why?

Your remote broken? No Lifetime tv on your cable package that you could watch instead? TV stuck on ESPN 2?

I'm old enough to remember when bowls were a reward for a good season, not an almost everyone gets ribbons award.

Are you old enough to remember when really good teams didn't get to go because the conferences only let you bowl every other year?

I'm old enough to remember 9-2 teams getting left out of bowls.

They're exhibition games. Even at the beginning it was never an effort to *reward* these hard working young men who achieved the best records of the season. It was an effort to draw some tourists. Now it's an effort to fill some programming time.

If you don't like watching 6-6 teams or teams with backups (because the starters opted out) or interim coaches or whatever I do have a solution for you. Actually two solutions! Either will work.You could:

1. Just think of it as a 13 game regular season (for some teams). Just another football game more or less like other OOC games, but limited to (slightly) better teams and at a neutral site (usually). Enjoy the chaos. If it's not your team, a random OT game can be really fun tv. It's still college football, there will be lots of drama and impressive athletic feats and heartbreak and triumph and sometimes even joy.

or

2. Find that missing remote control, flip over to Lifetime and enjoy the holiday movie of the week if you like that better than football between 6-6 teams. Or heck, I bet you could still find whatever passes for programming that would normally be airing on ESPN or ESPN 2 (I assume they move the arguing talking heads over to like ESPN News or something). Or turn the tv off and read a book. Nobody makes anyone watch bowl games on tv. You don't have to watch if it offends your sensibilities.

The Independence Bowl came about because the 1975 Arkansas St Indians went 11-0 and didn’t go bowling. The Southland Conference creates the bowl as a place for their champion to go, thus rewarding them for a good year.

Why not just allow any school that wants to play a 13th game find their own opponent and site, regardless of their record? We're long past thinking about bowls as rewards anyway. And lesser bowl payouts probably don't even cover the costs of travel to place nobody wants to go to anyway. Play some games at the home field of one of the teams and split the gate and any tv money they can get.

(12-24-2023 08:54 PM)EdwordL Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 05:28 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 05:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 01:30 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  There should be a rule against 6-6 teams in bowl games.

Why?

Your remote broken? No Lifetime tv on your cable package that you could watch instead? TV stuck on ESPN 2?

I'm old enough to remember when bowls were a reward for a good season, not an almost everyone gets ribbons award.

Are you old enough to remember when really good teams didn't get to go because the conferences only let you bowl every other year?

I'm old enough to remember 9-2 teams getting left out of bowls.

They're exhibition games. Even at the beginning it was never an effort to *reward* these hard working young men who achieved the best records of the season. It was an effort to draw some tourists. Now it's an effort to fill some programming time.

If you don't like watching 6-6 teams or teams with backups (because the starters opted out) or interim coaches or whatever I do have a solution for you. Actually two solutions! Either will work.You could:

1. Just think of it as a 13 game regular season (for some teams). Just another football game more or less like other OOC games, but limited to (slightly) better teams and at a neutral site (usually). Enjoy the chaos. If it's not your team, a random OT game can be really fun tv. It's still college football, there will be lots of drama and impressive athletic feats and heartbreak and triumph and sometimes even joy.

or

2. Find that missing remote control, flip over to Lifetime and enjoy the holiday movie of the week if you like that better than football between 6-6 teams. Or heck, I bet you could still find whatever passes for programming that would normally be airing on ESPN or ESPN 2 (I assume they move the arguing talking heads over to like ESPN News or something). Or turn the tv off and read a book. Nobody makes anyone watch bowl games on tv. You don't have to watch if it offends your sensibilities.

One year Pitt had a 9-1 record and did not get invited to a bowl. The loss came on a trick play by Navy coach Wayne Hardin; he had one of the ends start trotting off the field, and Pitt expected him to go to the sidelines to be replaced. Instead, he caught a pass and scored a TD that put Navy ahead for the win. The play was afterward referred to as The Lonesome End. Wideouts followed a year or so later.

1963 was the year Pitt went 9-1 and didn't get a bowl.

Navy, coached by Wayne Hardin beat Pitt 24-12 in Annapolis in mid October. All three Navy TDs were running plays, and Navy had a 17-0 lead then 24-6 with the late Pitt scores. Navy end Jim Campbell caught 7 Staubach passes for 92 yards, but no TDs. He also had an interception playing on the other side of the ball.

The Lonesome End was ARMY's Bill Carpenter playing 1957-1959. It was less single trick play than innovation. He just stayed out there, not even joining huddles.

Updated 12/26/23

SEC 0-0 // TBD // (9 Remaining)
B1G 1-0 // 100% // (8 Remaining)
ACC 2-1 // 67% // (8 Remaining)
B12 1-1 // 50% // (7 Remaining)
PAC 1-2 // 33% // (5 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
AAC 2-0 // 100% // (4 Remaining)
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
MAC 2-2 // 50% // (2 Remaining)
MWC 2-3 // 40% // (2 Remaining)
SBC 4-7 // 36% // (1 Remaining)

(12-20-2023 05:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 01:30 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:40 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 12:33 PM)Bear Catlett Wrote:  There should be a rule against players opting out of bowl games.

There should be a rule against 6-6 teams in bowl games.

Why?

Your remote broken? No Lifetime tv on your cable package that you could watch instead? TV stuck on ESPN 2?

I'm old enough to remember when bowls were a reward for a good season, not an almost everyone gets ribbons award.

NIU was one of the teams that went 10-2 with 3 wins vs. P5 teams but didn't get a bowl game, which was very annoying. Still think it's odd that they were in a bowl game at 6-6 though. Watching them this year, they were not very good - though they won their bowl game - against another 6-6 team. Maybe the only team they could have won against, or one of a few. Seemed very much like a participation trophy.

(12-26-2023 11:02 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Updated 12/26/23

SEC 0-0 // TBD // (9 Remaining)
ACC 2-1 // 67% // (8 Remaining)
B12 1-1 // 50% // (7 Remaining)
PAC 1-2 // 33% // (5 Remaining)
B1G 0-1 // 0% // (8 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
AAC 2-0 // 100% // (4 Remaining)
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
MAC 2-2 // 50% // (2 Remaining)
MWC 2-3 // 40% // (2 Remaining)
SBC 4-7 // 36% // (1 Remaining)

Maybe my memory is hazy, but I think fellow nerd school Northwestern won their bowl game by beating Utah. It was quite the snoozer though, so understandable.

(12-26-2023 12:10 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(12-26-2023 11:02 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Updated 12/26/23

SEC 0-0 // TBD // (9 Remaining)
ACC 2-1 // 67% // (8 Remaining)
B12 1-1 // 50% // (7 Remaining)
PAC 1-2 // 33% // (5 Remaining)
B1G 0-1 // 0% // (8 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
AAC 2-0 // 100% // (4 Remaining)
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
MAC 2-2 // 50% // (2 Remaining)
MWC 2-3 // 40% // (2 Remaining)
SBC 4-7 // 36% // (1 Remaining)

Maybe my memory is hazy, but I think fellow nerd school Northwestern won their bowl game by beating Utah. It was quite the snoozer though, so understandable.

Correct - Northwestern beat 14-7 Utah

(12-26-2023 12:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(12-26-2023 12:10 PM)BeepBeepJeep Wrote:  

(12-26-2023 11:02 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Updated 12/26/23

SEC 0-0 // TBD // (9 Remaining)
ACC 2-1 // 67% // (8 Remaining)
B12 1-1 // 50% // (7 Remaining)
PAC 1-2 // 33% // (5 Remaining)
B1G 0-1 // 0% // (8 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
AAC 2-0 // 100% // (4 Remaining)
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
MAC 2-2 // 50% // (2 Remaining)
MWC 2-3 // 40% // (2 Remaining)
SBC 4-7 // 36% // (1 Remaining)

Maybe my memory is hazy, but I think fellow nerd school Northwestern won their bowl game by beating Utah. It was quite the snoozer though, so understandable.

Correct - Northwestern beat 14-7 Utah

My bad

Updated

SEC 0-0 // TBD // (9 Remaining)
B1G 1-0 // 100% // (8 Remaining)
ACC 2-1 // 67% // (8 Remaining)
B12 1-1 // 50% // (7 Remaining)
PAC 1-2 // 33% // (5 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
AAC 2-0 // 100% // (4 Remaining)
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
MAC 2-2 // 50% // (2 Remaining)
MWC 2-3 // 40% // (2 Remaining)
SBC 4-7 // 36% // (1 Remaining)

(12-24-2023 05:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  12/27
Tulane+9.5 vs Virginia Tech

...5 of the G5s do have a shot at winning their games.

Tulane... are not playing top notched teams in the P5.

Updated 12/27/23

SEC 0-0 // TBD // (9 Remaining)
B1G 2-0 // 100% // (7 Remaining)
ACC 2-1 // 67% // (8 Remaining)
B12 2-1 // 67% // (6 Remaining)
PAC 1-2 // 33% // (5 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
AAC 2-1 // 67% // (3 Remaining)
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
MAC 2-3 // 40% // (1 Remaining)
SBC 5-7 // 42% // (0 Remaining)
MWC 2-4 // 33% // (1 Remaining)

Dern truck stop, misfits, leftovers, nobody wants to join B12 conference is 4-1.

Updated 12/28/23

B1G 2-0 // 100% // (7 Remaining)
B12 4-1 // 80% // (4 Remaining)
ACC 3-3 // 50% // (5 Remaining)
PAC 2-2 // 50% // (4 Remaining)
SEC 0-1 // 0% // (8 Remaining)
Notre Dame (1 Remaining)
-----
CUSA 2-1 // 67% // (1 Remaining)
AAC 2-2 // 50% // (2 Remaining)
SBC 5-7 // 42% // (0 Remaining)
MAC 2-3 // 40% // (1 Remaining)
MWC 2-4 // 33% // (1 Remaining)

(12-28-2023 12:21 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Dern truck stop, misfits, leftovers, nobody wants to join B12 conference is 4-1.

True, the record is what it is, but ...

Yesterday, the Big 12 had IMO an advantage in the two marquee games, WV vs UNC and OK State vs Texas AM, as both UNC and TAMU had more talent missing the game via opt outs, transfers etc. TAMU was playing their 3rd string QB vs OK State and huge losses via the portal.

I mean, why was WV a six-point favorite over UNC? Probably because UNC was without their top-5 NFL draft pick QB.

This is the advantage that scrappy, second-tier talent teams (the Big 12) will have have when playing bigger names or talent teams in middling bowls. The latter schools are likely to have a lot more talent drain.

(12-28-2023 09:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-28-2023 12:21 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Dern truck stop, misfits, leftovers, nobody wants to join B12 conference is 4-1.

True, the record is what it is, but ...

Yesterday, the Big 12 had IMO an advantage in the two marquee games, WV vs UNC and OK State vs Texas AM, as both UNC and TAMU had a more talent missing the game via opt outs, transfers etc. TAMU was playing their 3rd string QB vs OK State.

I mean, why was WV a six-point favorite over UNC? Probably because UNC was without their top-5 NFL draft pick QB.

This is the advantage that scrappy, second-tier talent teams will have have when playing bigger names or talent teams in middling bowls. The latter schools are likely to have a lot more talent drain.

Both teams had opt outs. It comes down to depth and the winners had more depth.

(12-28-2023 09:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-28-2023 12:21 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Dern truck stop, misfits, leftovers, nobody wants to join B12 conference is 4-1.

True, the record is what it is, but ...

Yesterday, the Big 12 had IMO an advantage in the two marquee games, WV vs UNC and OK State vs Texas AM, as both UNC and TAMU had a more talent missing the game via opt outs, transfers etc. TAMU was playing their 3rd string QB vs OK State.

I mean, why was WV a six-point favorite over UNC? Probably because UNC was without their top-5 NFL draft pick QB.

This is the advantage that scrappy, second-tier talent teams have when playing bigger names from the P2 in middling bowls. The P2 schools are likely to have a lot more talent drain.

Well, I guess if FSU loses then there’s the built in excuse since they’re missing players due to injury, portal, NFL, etc. This is bowl season and many teams in different conferences play these games under different conditions and motivations. You know the opposite is true with all the crap said about the B12 over the past two years…if the bowl record was 1-4 the B12 haters would be out in full force. Nice that they’re quiet for a change LOL. Just win!

(12-28-2023 09:28 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(12-28-2023 09:19 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-28-2023 12:21 AM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Dern truck stop, misfits, leftovers, nobody wants to join B12 conference is 4-1.

True, the record is what it is, but ...

Yesterday, the Big 12 had IMO an advantage in the two marquee games, WV vs UNC and OK State vs Texas AM, as both UNC and TAMU had a more talent missing the game via opt outs, transfers etc. TAMU was playing their 3rd string QB vs OK State.

I mean, why was WV a six-point favorite over UNC? Probably because UNC was without their top-5 NFL draft pick QB.

This is the advantage that scrappy, second-tier talent teams have when playing bigger names from the P2 in middling bowls. The P2 schools are likely to have a lot more talent drain.

Well, I guess if FSU loses then there’s the built in excuse since they’re missing players due to injury, portal, NFL, etc. This is bowl season and many teams in different conferences play these games under different conditions and motivations. You know the opposite is true with all the crap said about the B12 over the past two years…if the bowl record was 1-4 the B12 haters would be out in full force. Nice that they’re quiet for a change LOL. Just win!

No question, better to just win. Good for the Big 12.

As for FSU and UGA, I am not sure what to think. Yes, FSU is missing a ton more talent. But IMO, UGA is probably just as unmotivated, they were likely fully expecting to be in the CFP again this year. So not sure what kind of effort. Too bad because on paper it is a great matchup that has likely been ruined. We'll see.

But sure, if FSU loses, IMO their massive loss of opt outs is a readymade excuse, and IMO a very good one. They will be missing lots of the guys who took them to 13-0. It is what it is.

Bowers isnt playing and FSU will not be losing anyone as good as him.

(12-28-2023 12:25 PM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Bowers isnt playing and FSU will not be losing anyone as good as him.

Just… you know… the whole team…

(12-24-2023 05:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-24-2023 12:30 PM)ken d Wrote:  G5 schools have 8 games remaining, 6 of which are against P5 opponents.

12/26
Bowling Green+4.5 vs Minnesota
UNLV+12.5 vs Kansas

12/27
Tulane+9.5 vs Virginia Tech

12/28
Boston College+10.5 vs SMU

12/29
Memphis+9.5 vs Iowa State

1/1
Liberty+17.5 vs Oregon

G5 vs G5
12/26 Rice+5.5 vs Texas State
12/30 Toledo+3.5 vs Wyoming

If all favorites were to win, G5 conferences would finish at 15-20 (2-7 vs P5).

5 of the G5s do have a shot at winning their games.

Bowling Green
UNLV
Tulane
SMU
Memphis

They are not playing top notched teams in the P5.

I haven't been paying much attention, David. How many of those G5 schools have won their bowl games?